I am being deliberatly vague sorry.

[PrisonerZero]

Say, for example a person was in a bad relationship, a non violent (as yet) but highly critical, verbally abusive, mentally abusive, controlling relationship where the male partner drinks to excess and the female partner dreads the afternoon as it gets closer and closer to the time he will be home. As well as having her own older DC she also has a small baby, her current partner is this childs father and on the birth certificate.

The female realises she needs to end the relationship but is scared to do so - mainly because he has told her repeatidly that he would take the baby away (baby is less than 3 months old and breastfed). She believes that he would 100% take the baby. He would take him from her arms even, or the second she turned her back. He would take him from his bed in the middle of the night, or from the pram when out walking. If he was locked out he would find a way to get in. He is on the babys birth certificate and has parental responsibility. He wouldn't hurt the baby.

What could the female do to pre-emptivily stop this happening? How could she be sure that she wouldn't lose her child? Is there any way of getting anything down on paper saying that he can't take the child away without him knowing that she has done it?

Its when you know its so unlikely that he has but theres that nagging doubt... it makes you scared to say anything to anyone. i had almost comvinced myself he could read my mind at one point!! It makes him/them seem so powerful, even though i'd have said or done nothing wrong I was still paranoid that I had done something, however small. So then you change your behaviour and watch what you say and do - without even realising you're doing it, but its still not enough for them. It starts to seem reasonable to you, which by default makes any 'normal' behaviour or habits unreasonable. By the time you realise you have no friends left to talk to even if you were brave enough. Vicious circle.

He has gone and arranged this weekend away even though I said I didn't want to go, but is pretending I never told him this. I have told him I am not going and he isn't to happy about it but is trying to make out like its fine, but he hasn't called to cancel and tomorrow he will say that its too short notice to cancel, and they have cooked a meal etc so it would be rude of me not to go. I said he should go alone but he doesn't want to go without us. He has had plenty of opportunity to call and cancel, even ignoring a call from the host so he wouldn't have to tell them. Its about control I guess, any decision has to come from him and he has decided we're going and he will do his damdest to get us there. I will spend the whole time having to watch what I say and do, as for some reason I always seem to say the wrong thing, or embarrass him - I don't, but hey, it wouldn't be much fun for him if he didn't have some reason to knock me down.

He is on his best behaviour tonight, sort of. Lots of playing around and teasing, he always has to play that little to rough though. Again, its control - he has to feel like he has won. If I don't play, I am a moody bitch = he sulks, if I do and I complain he has hurt me, I am a wimp = he sulks, If I play and don't 'lose' he feels like he has lost = he sulks. Lose/Lose situation for me at least. Even when he is on his best behavior he is still a knob, talking to the baby, telling him how glad he is that the 'little bastards' arn't here, 'don't worry, I wont let her ruin you like she has the other little fuckers', mimicking their voices in a nasty way, Of course I tell him to stop but it falls on deaf ears.

Even when he is being at his very nicest, which he can be sometimes (otherwise i'd never have gotten with him) I remind myself how he treats my babies, there is a photo of them that I look at when I start to wobble and I look at their little faces and think I have failed them enough already and it has to stop. It works, it breaks down the pretence of Mr nice guy and steadies me. It is so hard to pretend though, he has gone to bed moaning about the lack of sex - again. Why would I want to have sex with him, in the last hour he has called me fat, ugly, stupid, a spaz - in a 'jokey' way of course. He always says 'ewww' when i'm getting changed. It used to make me cry and he would say he didn't mean it but doesn't bother me anymore. His favourite game is seeing how long it takes to make me cry, I just fake it now.

Hes humiliated me, offended me, made me cry, lied to me, hurt me, scared me, threatened me, but I no longer care because his opinion of me means nothing. I'm not allowed to sing, dance, I talk funny - he is forever correcting me, I make stupid faces, I even drink my tea in the wrong way, he has distroyed my confidence, but luckily I still have myself worth and know I deserve better. My children deserve better, I don't want them growing up wondering why I didn't love them enough to put them first.

You haven't failed your babies, Zero. You do love them enough to put them first, it comes across in everything you write.

Much love and strength to you. I was with an abusive man, and I was isolated, paranoid and lost my confidence completely. I held on for a long time hoping things would get 'better'. It did - after I left :)

You are so strong, Zero. x

oh gosh he really is horrible isn't he. A very sick man.

Just wanted to encourage you zero. I've been where you are now and I do remember huge swings in emotions and mentally. It is a consequence of all those years of having your head and heart fucked up - in the end you don't know where 'up' is, you're in such a state. Once you leave, it is astonising how quickly your boat stops rocking, how you adjust almost immediately to normal life.

thinking of you, esp this w/e. roll on 21st X

I dont understand why you didnt walk out the door or kick him out the door the very first day he disrespected your children. No way in hell would anyone speak or treat my children badly

you are supposed to look out for them above all others - they only have you to rely on. Dont give it one second more - protect your children like you should have from the very first time. They will already be damaged - poor little souls

Fred - that has to be the most unhelpful post I have ever read to a victim of abuse on here.

How utterly vile of you.

Lucky for you, Fred, you've obviously never been in that situation yourself. Otherwise you wouldn't be making such insensitive statements. Have a look here if you really want to begin to understand.

Your post is ignorant Fred - literally ignorant of the facts, having no idea how domestic abuse disables the victim, how it actually works - the monumental courage it takes to break out. Because you don't understand - have no idea of the effects of domestic abuse - you think you wouldn't ever be in that position. Think on - you would and you could, as anybody would or could. Please, keep your opinions to yourself - particularly on a thread where the OP is clearly so vulnerable, her head so fucked, that she couldn't even write in the first person for the majority of the thread. She needs support to take this step, not judging or shaming.

I dont understand why you didnt walk out the door or kick him out the door the very first day he disrespected your children. No way in hell would anyone speak or treat my children badly

I'm so sorry, I'd normally leave it on a thread like this (support) but this has made my blood boil. I take it that you have NEVER been in any form of abusive relationship Fred?

If you had, you'd realise that you can't 'just' leave. That never happens after the first time.

You think it's a one off. You think it's you, not him. You think that you can change him, that it was your fault. You're the one who says sorry, you think that you can change him. Why?

Because that's the point he will get you to. Men like this condition women to their way of thinking. They will cocoon you in their world and soon you'll believe anything that they tell you. They hold the rulebook and whatever they say goes. End of.

No matter what they do to you, you'd never just leave. Oh you'd like to think you'd never take abuse of any kind from anyone but until you are, or have been in Zero's shoes, you can't possibly say what you'd do Fred.

I hope that I never read your name at the top of a thread like this.

Agree with Mouse et al regarding Fred post; really unhelpful in the circumstances. You have no idea.

fred

I'm sorry that you are so arrogant, and so full of yourself and your own self righteousness to not bother to find out ANYTHING about the subject before posting.

You have made yourself look like a complete idiot.

Let this be a lesson eh?

I hope you are very young, and have lots to learn. If you are older...god help you. You poor little soul.

Fred, STFU. I am not usually so blunt, but having lived through it (and I am an intellegent, highly educated, able to hold down responsible job/run own businesses kind of woman, not what I imagine you would think would be the kind of stupid person to allow this to happen) and seen the OP taking such monumentous steps over the course of this thread, a statement to that is completely unhelpful and not at all supportive.

Zero- well-done.

If you are concerned about STB-XP's family stumbling across this and recognising you, MN can move the thread to OTBT, delete it, or delete your posts. Reporting the thread yourself may get a fast response.

Good luck. You're doing the right thing.

I can understand what Fred means, before I met him I would have thought along the same lines, I have even said in the past "If any man raises his hand to me then i'd leave" etc, I've known people in abusive relationships and wondered to myself 'why don't they leave' because I never understood the hold that fear can have over someone, I don't think anyone thats been lucky enough not to have to go through this can understand how it happens - how it sneaks and creeps up on you, it escalates in such tiny steps that you don't realise its happening until its on top of you. I cant pinpoint the start of it, I can't remember the first time he spoke badly to my children - if he had come straight out with something loud and nasty then i'd have been angry and shocked, i'd have done something about it - which is exactly why they don't do that.

Its easy to say someone should leave to protect their children, but sometimes it feels safer to stay on the good side, keep the peace, it feels like you are protecting them by not rocking the boat, not making him angry, you want to protect them from the fall out, the trouble at the door etc When you are conditioned to believe that this man is so powerful that he can distroy your and your childrens lives its hard to work out whats for the best. Its difficult to understand, and very confusing to live with. As well as living with feelings of fear, inadequacy, self loathing, faliure, isolation, denial and confusion, you live with feelings of guilt too, guilt that you have put yourself and your children in this situation and guilt that you can't get out.

No man walks into a relationship holding a sign saying 'I'm an abuser' you have to find out for yourself, and by then its to late.

Its so subtle, you start to change the thing you do so you don't hurt or upset him, he gets 'insecure' when you wear a low top so you get changed, he gets 'jealous' when men talk to you, so you don't talk to men, he gets 'worried' about you when you want to go out so you don't go, he is 'intrested' in what you've been up to so you answer the questions about where you have been and who with. He is 'concerned' that your best friend is taking advantage of you, so you see her less - after all he does all these things because he loves you right? And its not his fault he feels insecure and paranoid, his ex probably cheated on him, but its ok cause you'll prove you're different from the rest, you'll make him feel secure. Its not his fault he is stressed at work, he didn't mean to take it out on you, don't be so sensitive when he calls you names, hes only joking. Why get so upset when he critises you, after all i'm sure its constructive critisim.

Anyhow -

Guess where I am? At home! I didn't go to his relatives for the weekend, neither did he, huge change as normally I would have gone like a meek little lamb even though I didn't want too. I went clothes shopping today, and although I didn't buy the things I like, I didn't buy the things I didn't like (but that he would approve of) either, I decided to save the money and treat myself to whatever I wanted to wear when he has gone. I know these don't seem like huge things, but its a start in me breaking free I think, starting to use my own mind again.

I'm less scared now than I was - this thread has really helped, thank you all (even you fred ) and hearing the solicitor say he couldn't take my baby has taken a huge weight off my mind although the thought of telling him still makes me freeze inside. Oddly, the less bothered I am about him, the more effort he is making (although he spent a little while this morning telling his brother that my 'tits were knee knockers and I had an 'arse like an orange') I am being cautious though, he has said that he wants to take the baby to his parents tomorrow, and suggested that I stay home and have a bath. He has never, since I had the baby offered to even give me 5 minutes to have a cup of tea, so this is unusual for him. I'm not going to risk it, i'm going with them.

I really shouldn't post when breastfeeding, I ramble on and on - sorry!

Go with your gut instincts - you need to keep one step ahead of him because an habitual abuser can be intuitive; if they sense that their worm is turning they may revert to being charm personified or become more controlling and try scare tactics to keep their victim under their thumb.

Be very careful and, although it will grate and go completely against the solid grain that you have discovered within you, try to act your usual downtrodden, compliant, self until you are in a position to get him the hell out of your life.

You've done so well, you've come a very long way in a very short space of time and, once you're shot of him, you are gonna fly, honey - and you won't look back.

Morning Zero, nothing much to add this morning except continued support. You are strong woman; keep the faith.

Quite right. Don't let that baby out of your sight.

...am i the only one who thinks he wanted to take the baby without you precisely because he knew that was maybe the only sure way to guarantee you'll be going with him?

Am glad you're on the way to be free, btw :)

You're doing really well.. its great to hear the change in your tone now he is away for the weekend.
I don't know how you safely tell him and keep the baby safe... others will know better

He's not away for the weekend, notchattingnow. He didn't go either.

yes see that now sorry.. OP just went shopping with the baby
OP..he can't take the baby legally, but do you think he would snatch and take/ harm the baby if you told him you are leaving ?

WOW!

Zero your post could have been something I'd write. You certainly are a changed woman

I too can understand why Fred posted what they did. From the outside, in a world with no personal experience of abuse, then you'd be right to think 'I'd never let that happen to me or my children'.......... I'm sure we've all done it at one time or another, maybe about something else in our lives.

It just didn't need saying on your thread Zero. However, from you post I guess it made you think about your reasons for staying, it made you release the inner most feelings about the journey you have taken to where you are today.

And yes, do not let your baby out of your site.

Keep going. You are doing so well!

Thinking of you Zero.

You sound very special.

xxx

How are you this morning Zero?

Any plans for this week? WA? CAB? Maybe talking some more to your friend?

Does he work M-F btw? 9-5? You can get an awful lot done in that time.

I didn't get chance to post last night as he was here with his friend and I ended up going to bed first. He was going on last night saying when we split up (When not If) he would make sure I didnt see the baby etc, saying that he would trash the house and take photos to say I wasn't coping, that he would force alcohol down my throat (I don't drink), inject me with drugs etc. He thinks that because his family have money it will make a differnce, he thinks that I wouldn't be able to go to court (has he never heard of legal aid then?) He was going on and on about 'his son' and I have seriously had enough.

I did manage to difuse it a little though by saying that its a shame that the court system is so unfair, geared towards mothers and even though he was just as capable as me they wouldnt give him a chance blah blah blah but it directed his anger towards an invisable 'somebody' rather than towards me. Just placating him really.

It still scares me though, as he says he wouldn't care what a court says, he would just take him somewhere that i couldn't find him etc.

He kept going on about how my children were naughty, that he was glad the 'little fuck heads' wern't home etc - his friend said that my children were the best behaved children he had ever met.

In the couple of hours I was around him, he called me a cunt, a twat, a stupid bitch, told his friend my 'fanny was like a slaughtered badger, and smells like it too' He called me thick, a bad mother, told his friend how he wasn't getting any, said I could at least suck him off, told the baby to 'shut the fuck up son'

He eventually fell asleep on the sofa and I went up to bed.

He called this morning and I said I was going to get some comfortable shoes as I have none, he told me I am not allowed to get trainers as I would 'look like a spastic' and that I dress like a 'mongol' He knows words like that upset me, worse than him calling me a cunt etc.

The 21st can't come quick enough for me, every time he tries to touch me it makes me shudder.

He works M-F but I can never be sure when he will appear as he drives alot for his job and pops in and out during the day.

I have been trying to sort out what paper work I need to keep safe. I have the birth cetificate back now, I have my birth certificate, I have written down child benefit numbers etc

In the bag there are nappies and clothes for the baby, his red book, some small toys and blankets, just enough for if we are away for 2 nights. I haven't put anything in for my older DC as I will just call their dad and he has things at his for them.

I have been tidying my bedroom, well pretending to sort out my clothes that don't fit, but really I have been putting most of his clothes into one specific area of the room so packing them will be alot quicker. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I am supposed to be doing to be honest, I have tried WA only once more as I have gotten a little unsure what to say to them, I can't get an appointment with the CAB until a week on Tuesday as they do a session at my GPs fortnightly.

I am to scared to speak to anyone proffessionally, like the doctors or health visitor incase they call social services or something, or incase they tell the police and they turn up. I know I would feel backed into a corner if that happened and I would panic and lie. I thought I was less scared of him now but when he started going on last night I realised I was still afraid of what he could do.

OMG did he say all that in front of his friend - he really does seem to think he has got you where he wants you. Be very careful that he isnt planning to do a runner if he suspects that you are going to leave - or could it all be bravado to try to stop you thinking about it?
Would your older kids dad be able to help? Does he know what is going on, or would that be a bad idea? Just in case you need somewhere to go quicker than the 21st and you seem wary of the proffessionals, maybe a man might be a good back up?
You are so making the right decision