I am being deliberatly vague sorry.

[PrisonerZero]

Say, for example a person was in a bad relationship, a non violent (as yet) but highly critical, verbally abusive, mentally abusive, controlling relationship where the male partner drinks to excess and the female partner dreads the afternoon as it gets closer and closer to the time he will be home. As well as having her own older DC she also has a small baby, her current partner is this childs father and on the birth certificate.

The female realises she needs to end the relationship but is scared to do so - mainly because he has told her repeatidly that he would take the baby away (baby is less than 3 months old and breastfed). She believes that he would 100% take the baby. He would take him from her arms even, or the second she turned her back. He would take him from his bed in the middle of the night, or from the pram when out walking. If he was locked out he would find a way to get in. He is on the babys birth certificate and has parental responsibility. He wouldn't hurt the baby.

What could the female do to pre-emptivily stop this happening? How could she be sure that she wouldn't lose her child? Is there any way of getting anything down on paper saying that he can't take the child away without him knowing that she has done it?

so glad you got to see someone for legal advice. well done and i hope it gave you some reassurance about what's possible. his behaviour sounds truly awful and frightening. thank god all your dcs have you to be brave for all of you. no one should have to live with what he is doing, least of all dcs who have absolutely no choice. please make sure you tell new solicitor, police if involved and all profesionals what you have posted here about his attitudes and verbal / emotional abuse re children. what you have described are threats of violence towards baby. does he speak to / in front of your older dcs like this or just to you about them? . please keep making plans. good luck. will be thinking of you.

I think you need to press on with the legal advice, see if you can get someone to draw up these orders, and at the same time, you need to get yourselves ready to go. You need to cover as many bases as possible.

It'd be great if you could get him out of the house, but without reported violence, it is bound to be harder. Get informed explore and exhaust your options.

Don't ever give up. You will get there, you have to. Will be thinking of you too.

Zero - welcome to your new life. The fact that you are posting as YOU is a huge step towards getting YOU back. Well done brave lady.

I'm glad that the solicitor has pointed you in the direction of someone who can help you, that was good of her to do so.

I agree with notsorted re going to the police station and asking to speak to a DV officer. If you want the police there when you ask him to leave, they can arrange that, especially if he is 'known' to them/SS. You can also request a female family liaison officer to be there too.

Take as much help as you can. He needs to leave. He needs to get out.

If I were you, I'd keep a diary of all the things he says and does to you from here on in, if you haven't already.

I hadn't realised you'd posted before about this

Now is your time to grow. Now is your time to take the control back from him. Take the fear away. If you don't fear him, he has NOTHING.

Did you pack an emergency bag? And gather the important documents?

Even though he is going, you need an emergency bag just in case you have to go overnight to your friends house in the mean time.

Plan to get the locks changed on the same day that you tell him to leave. Do it in the day, with DV support, your friend if she'll be there, who ever you can.

You need to tell SS if they are 'aware' of your situation. They can support you through this.

They will not think you have failed or a rubbish mother. There are some very scary misconceptions about SS.

SS covers a lot of areas and in actual fact, they would much rather keep mums with their children and support them in their own home than split them up.

SureStart is another great place to meet new mums/families.

But that will come in time.

Deal with getting rid of him for now. Think about what you need, what you want to happen and then go to speak to the local police station.

They will believe you. They WILL help you.

KEEP GOING xx

Zero remember me from the ante-natal thread? I dropped off that a bit, after DD was born, especially as it moved to FB, which was probably a problem for you.

You're doing the right thing, and your DCs, all of them, will be in a much better place for it. Stay strong, and come back here so we can keep encouraging you, if you feel your resolve waivering.

Zero I've been following your thread. I have always believed you.

I can already see you getting stronger, moving forwards. You have come a long way already. Keep focused and you will have your new life for you and your DCs soon.

Hi Lisa, I hope you and your new baby are doing well.

Phoned the new solicitors to make an appointment only to find out that they no longer do legal aid, but they gace me a number of another firm that do, rang them and they do legal aid but wouldn't give me an appointment as I had mentioned that I had already seen someone who couldn't help - they said the didn't take transfers and kept asking for my hearing date. Finally got it through to them that I hadn't done anything yet (furiously backtracked over having seen a solicitor and tried to make out she was a vague aquantience that I had happened to bump into) and that I hadn't signed anything etc, so they then said they could see me but didn't have any appointments for 6 weeks. I asked about seeing someone earlier and explained about my baby and she said not to hang around waiting for this appointment but to find someone that could see me sooner.

Phoned another 3 numbers and eventually got someone to see me on the 21st September. Seems a long wait. But it is better than the alternative of trying to find over £1200 to the first solicitor.

Was finishing my emergency bag and noticed that the babies birth certificate isn't where I had left it, seems he has given it to his father to open a bank account with - this was mentioned weeks ago so nothing new. Will have to wait until that comes back to hide it. My friend has been round this morning and will keep the bag at hers.

With regards to his family being supportive.... I don't think they will be because I think to them his behavior is normal. From a few snippets I have gotton from his mum, his dad is very similar and she has at times been very unhappy although to me his dad seems lovely and we get on well (typically different to the outside world than he is to his wife I suppose) P has also mentioned incidents in the past which leads me to think his behavior is learnt behaviour, so I think they will think I am massivily over reacting etc. I like his family, I spend alot of time with them, I'll miss them.

Someone asked whether his names for my children are used when talking to me about them or to them directly - both i'm afraid. Although this has gotton less as I wont stand for it. It is obvious to me and them that he dislikes them though, this is the main reason I am leaving him. I don't care what he does to me but they are my world and he is distroying them. I have to get away from him - they have to see me do the right thing for them and I want them to be happy, I have seen them doing as I do and changing their behaviour around him to fit in with what he expects and i'm not going to let it happen. I don't want my baby to follow the same pattern and end up like P.

I really appreciate all the support.

It sounds like you will be able to get an order and an injunction that means you can get the police to simply come and remove him from the house by force. The fact that the house is yours strengthens your position, as does him being known to SS as a potential threat.
Chin up girl, with any luck you could be rid of him within days.

Prisoner - I just want to say that I greatly admire your strength and courage in this incredibly difficult situation. Do not underestimate how well you have done. Please give yourself the credit for getting so far - it is an amazing achievement.

Also, I got a copy of my son's birth certificate over the phone - but I did need to pay by card, and I am not sure how possible that will be for you.

could Womens Aid not help you with a solicitor?

(Im speaking from total ignorance as I have no idea)

OP, I recognise that sentiment of "I don't care what he does to me, but I won't have him to it to my children" (it's what finally impelled me to leave too).

Hopefully some day once you and your babies are free and safe, you will be able to feel that you deserve what is best for YOU, too.

I haven't been able to get through to WA as yet, their answerphone says the quieter times are 7pm-7am but it would be to much of a risk to call then, I never know when he will be home, or if he would wake and catch me on the phone - I suppose thats true for most people that need to call. Its such a shame that the service is in such high demand, it means that there are alot of women needing support.

This, for me, is the easy bit. I'm protected from it all as no-one knows but the difficulty will be telling him and the fall out afterwards. I am dreading it.

Have had a phone conversation with my other friend (I have a grand total of two friends! Luckily, it seems they are good ones) whom as always hated him, and him her. She has been telling me almost since I first met him to leave him and is glad that I am finally going to. She is the voice of experience. She has also offered me her spare set of house keys for emergencies as he doesn't know where she lives.

He has been moaning the last couple of days that I haven't told him I love him for ages, perhaps I ought to make more of an effort so he doesn't suspect, but the worry with being close to him is that I might start to fall myself into thinking everythings ok/he will change/he must love me really and I don't want to risk it.

Prisoner, carry on as normally as you can do. Of course on some tiny level there IS a change, and he perhaps is sensing this, so be careful, but try to keep things as they have been, and are normally, as much as you can.

What a great friend! You only need 1 good friend in life really! anything else is a real bonus! and for her to offer you her keys, that is wonderful.

If you are frightened of telling him, then don't. It may even be possible to have police presence, call 101 for advice, and of course call 999 if anything ever kicks off.

You can get injunctions against him, you can force him to leave. You can leave temporarily, have him removed and then return home when he is gone.

All of the above you need to clarify with good legal advice, but I know that it's possible.

meant to say, if you want to call WA from a mobile - if you use an app to find landline numbers, the cost comes from your minutes.

There is an app for iPhone, Android and Blackberry. This works.

www.skycomuk.com/0800wizard.php

Zero - he's testing you. Do you love him? Are you in love with him?

Everything will NEVER be okay as long as you live with this man. He can feel you getting stronger. He can see you growing taller and that is what is worrying him. He thinks that if you love him, he'll have you forever.

He thinks that is you fear him, he'll have you forever.

He's deluded.

Personally, I wouldn't say you love him if you don't just to try and keep him off the scent but that's easier said than done. I know.

Make sure that birth certificate goes back in it's place.

Sorry to hear that you have had such a nightmare trying to get a solicitor that will help you. And that you're struggling to call WA. Could one of your close friends try to call on your behalf?

Maybe if wrote down everything you were going to ask, all the questions etc, and then ask her to do it for you?

Then it wouldn't be on your bill and she could try to call after 7pm for you?

Just a thought.

Keep going xx

You're doing great, Zero. Big hugs. xxx

You've been so brave and have done so much. I really admire you. Bit worried about you having to wait until the 21st to see someone. Why don't you call NCDV on 0844 8044 999, they can help you get an injunction much quicker. I would also recommend that you google the county you live in and domestic abuse to see if there is a local service that can support you.

Well done zero. Well done. there are many women reading this who have done what you are planning to do, who have been in the hell that is a relationship with an abuser. As others are saying, it is astonishing how quickly you get back to 'normal' once they are out of your life.

Zero, please please don't tell him you want him to go/the relationship to end. Please don't do that. it is very very dangerous - and he has proved how dangerous he is prepared to be. If you do plan to tell him to leave your house, you must have police presence when you do - you mustn't tell him when you are on your own. Zero, promise you won't do that. The DV unit at the police station will support you all the way.

Or.. it may be an idea to go into a refuge for a while, just until things calm down iyswim. Get the police to get him out while you are away. Refuges can be lovely - somebody posted a thread on MN telling everyone who is wary of going to a refuge not to be! All the help and advice inc legal advice is on hand, you meet a lot of women who know exactly what it is like so you don't have to explain. I appreciate how you find it hard to get the words out when you call WA - it is so hard to put it into words. I am so sorry you haven't been able to get through to WA and hope you are successful soon. WA will also, btw, change your locks for you, free of charge, on the day you ask for it if you are in a DV situation. Iknow he hasn't hit you - I remember longing for my abusive ex to hit me so I had something concrete that proved what he was doing to my mind.

Plenty of us have got out zero - you're next. Be safe sweetheart, keep yourself safe. xxx

Thank you for that phone number, I will give them a ring tomorrow.

Do I love him? Do I hell. I did, when we first met. He made me feel like a princess, always affectionate, protective, complemented me, showed me off to family and friends, but now any respect I ever had for him has gone, I trusted him not to hurt me, I trusted him with my DC, I valued his time and his attention, I gave him every bit of me and he has thrown it all back in my face. With every dirty look, every comment, every temper tantrum, every time he has bad mouthed my DC I have loved him a little bit less and now its gone, possibly it stirs a little when we have a good day but No, I don't love him and I am definately not in love with him. How can I find him attractive when all I see of him is cruelty, spitefulness and vindictivness. How can I want his arms around me when he has made it quite obvious what he thinks of me and my children.

Even when we've talked about Christmas etc he has said he didn't want to spend it with my brats, he didn't want them around, etc. How can he be with me then - I have and always will come as a package. He has been such hardwork this evening, pub again after work, and straight into one when he got back his first words were "What the fuck have them little fuckers been doing, tell them to shut the fuck up" and then shouts "Shut the fuck up" to them. He isn't a man. He is a monster. He had a go at me for not doing enough housework, asking what the fuck I do all day other than sit on my arse etc.

I told him if he didn't like it he could feel free to leave, that he knows where the door is. He then stomped off to the kitchen and came back with a cup of tea for me. Like that makes up for the fact that he is a tosser.

I never thought men like him exsisted. He is racist (My friend has a non white baby and he went mad when he saw a photo of him in my sons chair, he calls non white people names etc) Sexist (calls all women split arses) homophobic, He shouts stuff at people out of the car window, calls women fat, shouts names at lads etc. Gets really bad road rage, swears constantly, drinks to much and becomes paraniod, aggressive and defensive. He said today that because he works he shouldn't have to do anything in the house or with the baby. Ever. I didn't rise to it. I kept thinking that it wouldn't be long now until he is gone, last night I dreamt that he crashed the car and died (I am ashamed of that though)

I am focusing on things I can do when he has gone. I am going to buy some trainers, I'm not allowed any at the moment (How ridiculus is that! I could buy some, he couldn't make me take them back but he would sulk, and then sulk every time I wore them) I am going to put some photos on the wall, paint the walls, make the house feel like mine again. I lived here before I met him, I want it back to how it was. I am going to watch E4. I am going to go on FB. I don't even like FB, but thats not the point. I am going to eat what I want, when I want. No more picking up his grotty boxers, or smelling his stinky roll up smoke wafting in through the back door, no more clock watching and wondering when he will get home, I'm going to get toys for the garden and kick a ball into his precious vegtables. I'm going to put the DCs drawings up, instead of him telling them they are crap and throwing them away.

I don't know when he changed, I don't remember a specific time. I used to tell him I was going somewhere or doing something and he would pull a hurt face but say nothing, so I would cancel because I wanted him to be happy - what a slippery slope.

Thank you for the link to the app, i've got an andriod phone so will give it a go.

Oh, and when things have settled down, i'm going to claim CSA.

I could ask a friend to call, but don't think I would be comfortable giving her all the details, i've only given them a rough outline. I'll keep trying, I'll get through eventually.

I've decided he is a real life dementor. He sucks the happiness out of everything.

Having to be very careful not to tell him to bugger off, its constantly on the tip of my tongue. Wouldn't be the best idea though until everythings sorted.

Thank you again for all your support and sorry about the ramble.

xposts Springy. Thank you, don't worry I will get everything in place before I tell him, unless he escalates things in which case I will dial 999. I understand the wanting him to hit you think, just once, and I could have him arrested and out of my home. Sometimes I wish there was a video camera in my house so I could show people the proof, show myself i'm not crazy.

I am off to bed now, thank you all again.

I just realised my lap top charger isn't charging, it must be broken. Have ordered a new one from ebay but will have a dead laptop for a couple of days. Will be back though.

You are not crazy, My X used to do a lot of what you have just described.

You are not alone, and you are not wrong to want him to get out of your life.

Jesus, no-one could say you haven't tried! you deserve a medal!

We'll get there love, together.

OP, I am so impressed at the increasing strength you are showing in your posts.

Well done on keeping up the chase to find yourself some legal help, and on keeping up the calls to WA, and being determined to call upon CSA in the future.

Keep asking for help, keep talking to people. The more support you have, the more people know what's going on, the stronger you will become.

Like you, I first started by talking to MN, then a RL friend, then another friend, then 3 solicitors, then a social worker, then the police, then 2 shrinks, then my GP, then 2 local organisations for abused women... The more I called upon their help, the stronger and more resolved I felt, and more able to do what needed to be done. I met a couple twats on the way (1 iffy solicitor, and 2 twattish policemen), but I didn't let their ambivalence deter me. I'm saying this to tell you not to get discouraged if you call on someone for help and they are not understanding of you: plenty more will be.

But frankly, reading the strength in your voice in your latest posts, I don't think you're going to be blown off course now. You are doing amazingly well.

Zero - I think you're amazing.

I don't know if it's easier to get through to a local DV service than the Women's Aid main number, but if you look here you can find your local service and see if it's easier to get through on a local number.

Good luck and keep strong.

Morning Zero; My abusive H was not far off what you described, but he liked me to work and provide for DCs as he could then squander more of 'his' money on whatever he fancied - gambling, women etc. He would also take money off me and use all that scary shit like you describe about what he was going to do to anyone who crossed him including me. He was also from the middle east which just added to the fear that the kids could dissappear.

It was hell, then he just got sick and died. The relief was immense. Don't feel guilty for dreaming him dead, I used to think sometimes that I would only be free if he died.

My only regret is that I didn't have the strength to walk away from him, I was so scared but with hindsight I would have been alright. I didn't know about MN until I looked up abusive relationships after he was gone. the women on here are a wonderful support having been through rubbish themselves and are out the other side.

You will be fine. keep going and don't look back. No one has a right to impose their will on another. Use everything at your disposal to get where you are going.

PS.... my current DP is a wonderful caring reasonable man; what a contrast

Jeez, this thread has mad me so Your poo DCs and poor you!

I know its not MN thing to do but

I have not got any really great advice, im afraid OP

Just an encouraging warmth of support, and simple words' what a fantastic mum you are'

I hope your appt on the 21st is helpful, and leads to a very quick path of freedom for you and your DCs

Im keeping my fingers crossed for you xxxx