I am being deliberatly vague sorry.

[PrisonerZero]

Say, for example a person was in a bad relationship, a non violent (as yet) but highly critical, verbally abusive, mentally abusive, controlling relationship where the male partner drinks to excess and the female partner dreads the afternoon as it gets closer and closer to the time he will be home. As well as having her own older DC she also has a small baby, her current partner is this childs father and on the birth certificate.

The female realises she needs to end the relationship but is scared to do so - mainly because he has told her repeatidly that he would take the baby away (baby is less than 3 months old and breastfed). She believes that he would 100% take the baby. He would take him from her arms even, or the second she turned her back. He would take him from his bed in the middle of the night, or from the pram when out walking. If he was locked out he would find a way to get in. He is on the babys birth certificate and has parental responsibility. He wouldn't hurt the baby.

What could the female do to pre-emptivily stop this happening? How could she be sure that she wouldn't lose her child? Is there any way of getting anything down on paper saying that he can't take the child away without him knowing that she has done it?

Notherday; An abusive P can scare the living daylights out of you, mess with your mind and wear you down. Zero has strength but needs support and a place to feel safe.

notherday, what insight, what intellect!

Ladies, we only need say it once, then leave the thread. kerching, NEXT!

Imagine how many threads we can get by in a day. Perhaps we can agree on a menu of replies and simply give a number

1: leave the bastard
2: give the bastard the benefit of the doubt this time but pack his stuff just in case
3: Kill the bastard

and the one most rarely used:
4: he is completely innocent, blameless, and you are blowing this all out of proportion

Mumsnet by multiple choice! Inspired!

Sheeh if we did all that, MN would grind to a halt in a week!

Zero been lurking and can really see the impressive change as you grow in strength and resolve.

Do you think you are getting a bit hung up on the 21st? They will probably only tell you the same as the last one - he won't get custody of the baby (too little and bf and should stay with siblings), that they can get non-molestation orders/injunctions to stop him coming back and that you have the right to get H out of your house. So that still leaves you having to act to get him out.

Why not ring your local police station (perhaps HH or Mouse could post the number).

Do it from your friend's house. Tell them you just want some information and advice. Tell them

-- it's your house
-- H is refusing to leave
-- he is threatening to you and DC.

Ask them what they think you should do. You don't even have to give your name.

That will give you a clear, safe plan to put into action as soon as you are ready.

Now is the time to act. You have made up your mind.

You are a strong mother and can take that first step.

notherdaynother sockpuppet You've obviously never been in an abusive relationship, so why chip in with such a uselessly ignorant comment when you have nothing constructive to add? It smacks of attention-seeking and does no one any favours, least of all those reading the thread for support. So stop it, there'a love.

Morning, apologies for the infrequent postings, what I thought was a problem with my power cord thingy hasn't been solved with buying a new one, the battery on this old thing must be going as any time it is unplugged it dies within minutes, so I can only use it plugged in and even then its only working half the time. Best start saving up for a new one.

I think I have given myself a mental block by focusing on the 21st, I can't seem to do anything before then, its almost like I think that all my problems will be solved on this magical date. And I know thats stupid and it doesn't work like that but I can't get past it in my mind. I have read all the links and really am grateful for them. I have found this thread and all the advice invaluable.

Sorry Notherday if this thread isn't high drama, fast moving and exciting enough for you, but this is my life. And its not easy, or simple to just chuck him out. Obviously you are lucky enough not to realise that its not just a case of putting his stuff in a bin bag outside the door, its trying to undo all the mental and emotional knots that he has tied you in too. Do you understand the the feeling when someone tells you they are going to take your 3 month old baby away, that you wont see him again and you know they mean it? It freezes you inside and paralyses you.

Zero - take the invaluable advice and ignore the rest. Use what will help you, but do use it.

How has he been with you lately? In the last day or so? Do you think he knows?

When her dc are threatened it can turn a timid and physically weak mother into a furious lioness who will fight off all comers in her desire to protect her cubs.

In this case, your dc by your previous relationship have had their lives made a misery by the father of your 3 month old yet you have lied to protect him.

In addition, this man has threatened to drown the child you created together and has also threatened to take the infant away from you, but you have failed to take any steps to protect your baby.

Isn't about time you got angry and roared said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I AM NOT GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO DO ANY MORE DAMAGE TO ME AND MINE. YOU ARE OUT OF OUR LIVES AS OF NOW - and mean it?

The house is in your name and he has no legal right to be in it if you don't want him to be. You can call the police anytime of the day and night and ask them to remove him - and there will be nothing he can do in law to get back in.

You can pack his stuff, stick it in the front garden, change the locks, and have the police remove him if he attempts to get into YOUR house.

In the time since you first posted, you could have taken yourself and your dc to the safety of a women's refuge where, if necessary, they would have helped you obtain an injunction and/or a restraining to keep this man away from you, your dc, and YOUR home.

But, apart from collecting up some paperwork and packing a small bag, you have done NOTHING to stop this man continuing to abuse you.

All that is going to happen on the 21st is that you are going to see another solicitor who will tell you what you were told by the one you saw some weeks ago.

There will be no magical solution unless and until YOU wave the wand that will make him disappear from your life.

You have friends who are willing to help you. You have family that you have neglected. You have a caring ex who deserves to know what his dc have gone through at the hands of a twisted, bullying, twunt. You have a source of internet support here.

You have the power to free yourself and your dc NOW. Please don't waste any more time. The law is on your side - use it.

Great post Izzy you talk a lot of sense

I've been reading this thread, but haven't really commented on it much - I can't believe how strong you are, Zero

Just another thing to add to the mele...

If it's too scary to go to the DV unit at the police, or ring WA, or ring the Samaritans or go to the GP or the HV etc etc... you can go, once, to your local Children's Centre and tell them the situation; you can print out the thread and let them read it, if you are scared. They will help you. There and then. They will go with you to all these people, to physically cheer you on whereas we can only do it on a screen... it may be easier to have to tell one person who can then relay the information through the channels rather than repeating to all and sundry...

I work in a Children's Centre and I would be honoured to help someone like you, if they turned up on the doorstep - we are trained in dealing, sensitively with these things and although there would be some paperwork, the Family Support Worker (which is what we are called) would do it ALL with you.... from the first time you tell them, til the day you're settled in your new life, they will be there - textable, telephone-able, five days a week...

Just an idea, anyway....

I wish you all the strength and courage you need to take this next, massive step x

When my DD was a week old she was crying and I was , as a new mother, trying to calm her. Suddenly my H shouted 'put her down'. I lay her on the bed and got up; he then shouted ' where are you going?'.

I was like a rabbit in the headlights, confused and not sure of what H mean't and he then said to me ' if you don't learn to look after her properly, I will send her away and you will never see her again'.

At that moment, I picked her up and held her out towards him and said take her now then if thats what you intend to do; I called his bluff. he didn't take her.

My H was from Pakistan and I always felt this to be a threat that could have been carried out which I never forgot. I remained in this awful relationship for a futher twelve years until he died and I was set free.

I realised after he died that the only way H could have taken my DCs away and caused difficulty is if he had taken them abroad and not returned himself.

I understand that your P is from the Uk Zero; HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE THE BABY FROM YOU.

I understand your fears Zero, I understand the feelings.

textable, telephone-able, five days a week...

That's the problem isn't it, Lewis? Abusers don't tend to keep office hours and, especially in the early days, victims need to know that support is available 24/7.

The OP can find that level of support from her local women's aid refuge.

yes, she can - but there are other avenues too if she doesn't feel that she wants to use the organisation with that label...

I know office hours and abuse don't mix; I've been there myself... it's just another avenue to think about, that's all :)

(and tbh, I'd keep my mobile on over the weekend if I were allowed, but I'd get sacked!)

it's a good idea Lewis, and one that hasn't been suggested yet.

SirSugar xx

Good idea Lewis

The OP has to be ready herself to make the steps. I have been in an abusive relationship and I know how he f....d with my mind. I didn't know if I was on my arse or my head. Another poster was right. You end up being in a permanent state of 'rabbit caught in the headlights' and, unfortunately, your judgement and rationality is affected. Please don't put the guilt trip on her.

I would like to say, however, that he is a coward, as they all are who do this. And now it makes me sick how my ex spoilt my precious years with my babies when I was caught up in his twisted, mind f... controlling world. Sorry, I feel angry for you.

neuroticmumof3 has posted this link www.ncdv.org.uk/ on another thread.

There is no need for you to wait to see a solicitor as you are not married to this man and, despite anything may he say to the contrary, he has no right whatsoever to be in your home if you do not want him there.

The OP has to be ready herself to make the steps

agree , but all the while she is having the luxury of dithering, her poor children are damaged more and more each day

sorry if thats not huggy hunni, but it is true. This has been going on for a long time, and those poor kids are suffering

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow, Zero.

I went and saw my solicitor this morning and I have come away pretty disappointed. I don't even know his name as he didn't bother to introduce himself and I was in and out in 10 minutes. I explained the situation to him and he said that in 32 years he had never come across a case like mine (He is a family law specialist though!) and he doesn't think there is any legistration to prevent P from taking the baby until after he has taken him and the police have been involved - he says the police would just tell me to contact a solicitor and not bring the baby back to me (unless they thought the baby was in immediate danger)

He also doesn't think he has enough Legal Aid spaces left to be able to work with me but will check and let me know, he says if not, he can pass me on to someone else.

I felt like I was making a fuss about nothing, he said that if everyone asked about residency orders etc on the back of a threat they would be over run because according to him its a common and meaningless threat. I tried to explain to him that P meant it and gave some examples of his behavior (including threats to gas us all etc) but it didn't seem to sink in. He said because P hadn't hit me or otherwise been violent there wasn't alot they could do.

He said he will be in touch.

Have continued trying to get in touch with WA and the Domestic Violence helpline - it shows up on your phone bill!! The phone company called me as my bill has hit £100 I checked it online and the phone number is littered all over it. It must have charged me everytime i was on hold (and I have been trying to call ALOT). I don't have a landline. I asked the woman on the phone to stop paper billing as I am worried about the phone bill arriving, she has changed it but doesn't know whether it will be in time for this months so I have been checking the post daily.

P is in his 'good mode' and has been all week, I think he is making an effort because he could see I was pulling away, it wont last though.

I am waiting for the community police officer to call me back about seeing someone from the police domestic violence support team.

You have an android phone IIRC? please use this app [http://www.skycomuk.com/0800wizard.php] or search for another that allows the 0845 numbers. there are a ton of apps out there.

I'd also go and see the CAB if I were you. the police may be more helpful. the verbal threats could be technically legally argued away, but the police may have another take on it.

Don't give up.

You need to really think about getting advice from the WA about getting out and to a safe house.

sorry., link here www.skycomuk.com/0800wizard.php

I'm really sorry you've been left feeling like you've made a fuss by this misogynist excuse for a solicitor; I am not knowledgable in this area of law, but I do know that there is another thread running at the moment where a woman is in the process of getting injunction against her husband because of threats he has made. I am sure that if he removed your son from you, you are his main carer, something can be done.

Someone will be along with better advice soon about what to do next, but don't let this solicitor's views put you off.

Stay strong and focussed; we all believe you.

Zero, do not let this unhelpful, self important Solicitor set you back. Stay focussed and just get yourself somewhere safe as soon as you can. There will never be the 'right' time to do it. I hope the DV unit call you back soon.