I am being deliberatly vague sorry.

[PrisonerZero]

Say, for example a person was in a bad relationship, a non violent (as yet) but highly critical, verbally abusive, mentally abusive, controlling relationship where the male partner drinks to excess and the female partner dreads the afternoon as it gets closer and closer to the time he will be home. As well as having her own older DC she also has a small baby, her current partner is this childs father and on the birth certificate.

The female realises she needs to end the relationship but is scared to do so - mainly because he has told her repeatidly that he would take the baby away (baby is less than 3 months old and breastfed). She believes that he would 100% take the baby. He would take him from her arms even, or the second she turned her back. He would take him from his bed in the middle of the night, or from the pram when out walking. If he was locked out he would find a way to get in. He is on the babys birth certificate and has parental responsibility. He wouldn't hurt the baby.

What could the female do to pre-emptivily stop this happening? How could she be sure that she wouldn't lose her child? Is there any way of getting anything down on paper saying that he can't take the child away without him knowing that she has done it?

Solicitors are unlikely to work weekends, but WA does, OP. If he has plans to go out tomorrow maybe you could call WA then? You will be able to get through to them eventually.

Also, the police definitely works weekends. Consider calling the police if "the usual" is something they should be called out for.

Since he may not accept to be told to leave, you may have to consider the possibility of being the one to leave yourself. This would be an excellent thing to discuss with WA. Personally, I had a bag of essentials packed and ready to grab, keys and important things by the door, ditto, and a trusted friend who was ready to receive me at hers day or night. Please do discuss with WA what you and your baby could do if you ever feel you need to get out of the house and somewhere safe.

You can do it.

Prisoner, there's some great advice on here. A friend who will receive mail from solicitors is a great idea - I had the same.

Big hugs, you're so brave. You're not alone. xxx

Tell the woman to have a word with the local police Domestic Violence unit. He has threatened to kill her and the children, she will not be seen as a timewaster. They may send officers round to remove him or at least to be there while she packs a bag with essentials and stop him from attacking her or trying to prevent her leaving. If he becomes physically aggressive they will remove him from the house and stick him in the cells for the night.

Please don't ask him to leave until you have a plan in place. Especially if he has alcohol inside him.

You ideally need to plan this, take your time, gather important documents, things for the DC, birth certificates, passports, things that are hard to replace.

Talk to WA tomorrow when he goes out. That can be your one step for tomorrow.

There is a VERY real chance that he may get aggressive/violent if you ask him to go. I know this is so hard for you but a sudden change in your behaviour could make him take that first step over the line.

Sorry, I'm not trying to put you down, I think you are very very brave and very very strong to even dial WA's number today but don't add fuel to the fire just yet.

Talk to WA. See what they advise, see how they can help. Keep going, you can do this, you are doing this. You will get out. You will be free xx

I second everyone's suggestion as to how brave you are.

Please understand that YOU are the victim here, and what this guy is telling you is complete LIES. He can't take a babe from its mother.

If he threatens you, you can withhold contact (let him go to court) and you can, if ruled to allow contact, ask and expect for it to be through a contact centre.

You have a good friend there, she wants to see you out of this and happy, you can and you will be. I promise you.

Getting out is more daunting from the side of it you are on, once you are brave enough to take a bag, your baby and your first step away from the house, you will rapidly see that it was and is a lot easier than you thought it would be.

You will be astounded how much better you feel when you are not in that pressure cooker.

You will have psychological fall out, naturally, but know that we can get you through all that, your friend can help, WA can help, your Doctor and your HV. Many of us all wanting to help you back to happiness.

One step at a time. WA first. Get out, properly and ideally in a managed exit. DON'T tell him you are going. it could be dangerous. Be ready to call 999 at any time, don't dither on that for a second.

Thank you for all your advice. A bag will be left at her friends house as soon as she gets the chance, she only lives 5 minutes away and would be ready with a cuppa and a chat any time of the day or night.

Bank accounts have never been joint and she has never had any of his money so knows she can afford to support her DC alone on CTC and CB until other money is sorted, The house is in her name only, everything in it belongs to her. Can't wait to repaint the walls, hang some photos (not currently allowed) get new bed sheets - in fact a new bed!! Will put some toys for the DC in the garden.

Been waiting until she can go up to bed, waiting for him to fall asleep. Usually go up around 2am now to make sure there wont be the awkwardness of him wanting to be close to her and her pulling away. He has been complaining today that he never gets any hugs or affection anymore, that he rolls over to hug in the night and maybe initate sex and gets nowhere, its been like that a couple of weeks now - she can't fake wanting someone in that way. Why would she want to be with someone so cruel, using the excuse that the baby wont sleep to stay up. Or if he has had a drink he is left asleep on the sofa and he doesn't wake up until the early hours when she is already fast asleep. He complains she doesn't tell him she loves him anymore. I think he has been noticing a difference. One day last weekend he was gone when she woke up, and he didn't return until the evening. She didn't know or care where he was, and he complained that she hadn't even rung him to find out etc.

Half hoping he does 'start' this weekend, just for the excuse to tell him to leave. almost need a reason, an excuse as the though of telling him just out of the blue, is much scarier than him knowing he has done wrong and thinking she will calm down in a few days, am hoping he will be remorseful and play nice thinking she will change her mind for a few day than go straight into angry, vengeful mode. Give her some breathing space to pack his stuff and get sorted.

The landline handset is broken, it needs replacing asap before she tells him to leave incase he takes her mobile leaving her with no way to call for help etc.

Going to buy a chain for the front door, will have to do that Monday when she is alone. Will hide it until its needed.

Plus Carbon monoxide alarms - thank you for suggesting that. Its more scary as he has the knowlege and skills needed. Just a threat made to scare, and unlikely to happen but having the alarm will remove the fear. Also check smoke alarms. Ought to be done anyway. Should give extra peace of mind.

He can be very aggressive ("I'm going to smack you in a minute, you had better move") but has never hit or shoved. He will kick and throw things.

Still can't believe she will go through with it but the thought of still living like this in a years time......

I think this woman is incredible.... in a matter of days, she's gone from utterly frozen in terror to starting to create a safe exit plan.

She said the house etc is in her name; that means she can call the police and get the perpetrator removed... she need not lose her house as well as all the other scary stuff...

Just a thought...

Love, the woman can leave, she has her reasons, by the bucketfull! Please don't think to engineer a conflict, that could be seriously dangerous.

All of the fears that were expressed at the outset were irrational. S'normal, we all do that, it's kind of fear of fear itself I think. But one by one, those that are NOT in the fog of all this, give you the clarity, the normality the TRUTH that will set you free of fear, and free of oppression and free to be HAPPY! Yep, you are allowed to laugh too when you are free!

This woman is not alone. This woman has support, she is believed and she is loved.

break down what you are doing into bite sized chunks so they are not overwhelming, do ONE essential thing a day, and a good idea thing.

When you have WA call done, put the CAB on your list too, find out what rights you have, wrt getting buggerlugs out of your home.

Your internet history.... are you private browsing? is there any danger what you right you could be read?

Is she sure she won't have the police there when she tells him? Or call them before so they know about the situation? They can even wait outside in the car. Just to make sure everything is ok.

I felt that exact thing when I left my EX - I wanted a fight so there was a reason. She doesn't need one though. This woman is amazing, strong and doing so great. Her DC's would be very proud if they knew x

She won't lose her house but it may well be safer for her to leave whist she has him removed officially. Everything is in her name, she has her own money, she does not NEED him for anything.

Zero

Get the advice from WA and CAB. See what they suggest.

Does he pay any of the bills? The mortgage? Utilities?

You can re-paint your walls, you can eat what you like, have friends over, days out, days in! YOU can live YOUR life again.

You have to take the steps to do it so that he can never come back into your life.

Don't worry about the baby threats, I have little doubt that he'll start them again once you tell him what's going on.

He needs to be the last to know what's going on.

Thank you.

The history is being deleted after each time this thread is posted on or read - not worried about him seeing it but members of his family use MN.

Can't even begin to think about telling him straight, when he arrived home from work etc, mind won't even begin to imagine it. Thats too much, plus the thought of having the police or anything there is awful, just feels like asking for trouble, from his family too, they wouldn't understand the need. Maybe its a feeling that will pass, but right now its almost like the decision needs to be validated and understood, not but her but by others. No idea if that makes any sense. Couldn't just tell them the truth, it would never be believed.

No idea where he is right now, she woke up this morning to find him gone - as he was last week. Somewhere wearing a shirt as he has had the iron and starch spray out. She did call him and ask but he said he was at the barbers (3 hours ago), no idea why you would get dressed up only to get hairs all down your back! If she could be bothered she would be paraniod that he had met someone else but doubt she could get that lucky! Would be very pleased if he came back and said he was leaving, had met someone else (poor hypothetical woman).

Its not even like help with the baby will be missed as he does nothing (because he works all day apparently), she is already doing everything alone, the only difference will be the she can do it in her own time in the way that she pleases.

He is not needed for anything, he is not wanted for anything.

Very scared, but very excited that soon this will be all over!

Haven't the first idea on how to get back to normal afterwards though, as this, for her IS normal IYSWIM.

Is his family from another culture? It sounds as if they are patricarchal and treat women as subordinates? Is it a case of this man has done nothing wrong- ever- in their eyes?
I hope you can move forward. I know it is possibly helping you to refer to yourself as "she" but perhaps writing in the first person will make you feel more empowered.
Positive thinking techniques, NLP and CBT etc use language to help change thoughts and behaviour- if you can recite the mantra "I am a strong woman" ( instead of "She is a strong woman" you can feel the difference.)

Keep going Zero. You have all the support in the world right here but we can't give you more than that. Lean on your RL friend. Lean so hard that you let yourself fall away from him.

You have to release yourself from him. You sound so much better already, like the realisation is sinking in that actually, you DO deserve better. And so do your DC.

Small steps, big changes xx

Zero, trust me, trust us, you will be surprised at how quickly you fall back into Normal!

Big hugs.

I'd suggest (from experience with a phone smasher...) perhaps hiding the mobile phone, or buying a cheap pay as you go and loading it with important numbers?

Best of luck xx

IF the house is in her name she can call the DV unit and explain that she wants the man out, but that he has threatened to attack and kill her so she would like an officer present when she tells him to go.

Just a quick post as I am hopefully going to be able to go to bed soon but wanted to post to say thank you for all the advise and let you know I havent disappeared.

Solicitors appointment tomorrow at 3pm, had a bit of a wobble about it all as we had a lovely night last night with his family and then spent today there too, for dinner etc. They really do all adore the baby. I was thinking what a nice time i'd had - and then realised that actually No, i'd had a nicer time than usual. Which is different from having a nice time. Because i'm used to things being bad, when things are less bad its easier, but that doesn't make it good if that makes any sense.

I was going to put that he has been ok this weekend but in reality he has been less of an arse than usuak but still an arse. I've found myself walking on egg shells more than usual to try and prolong the less-arseyness. Good job I wrote this post out as i'd have gone to bed thinking everything was lovely and feeling guilty. Just shows how the perception of normal has changed.

Will update after the appointment tomorrow, and thanks to you all again.

Oh, and will get a cheap pay as you go phone, thank you for the suggestion and all the others on this thread. I appreciate every single post.

We'll keep you on the path Zero! no fear there! goodnight love!

You are doing brilliantly, OP. Really glad to hear you're seeing the solicitor. I don't want you to breathe a word of your plans to this man until you've talked to the solicitor and followed up on her suggestions about protecting yourself.

You are doing fantastically, and one of the most important steps is well on its way - you are beginning to draw away from HIS view of you, and know that YOUR view is actually correct.
Your worries about his family may be unfounded - they may turn out to still want to support and be involved, especially if there is a GC, so dont let assumptions stop you doing what you need to do. Chances are he has shown evidence of his behaviour to his nearest and dearest, and you may be believed by more than you imagine.

What a lovely post to read from you this morning Zero

I was slightly concerned when I started to read about you having a nice day, until you realised just what was happening.

You are so strong, you have gotten so much further than you thought you ever could. When you get chance, re-read your first few posts and look at your posts now.

You are such a changed lady. You can do this and you are.

I'll be thinking of you at 3pm. Take a list of your thoughts with you. Even the things you feel are 'silly'. Just take your time and talk things through.

Good luck xx

How did the solicitors go sweets?

Sorry for the late reply, I was waiting for him to go to bed.

I was very nervous actually going there, but she was lovely. She listened and seemed to get what I was facing without me having to go into to much detail which helped. She seemed to think that there was no way he could take the baby. She said there was something called an emergency no-notice residency order that I could get and she also seemed to think that I should ask for an injuction against him. She said that sometimes they were difficult to get as there had been no physical violence but as there were children in the house/he has made threats/his name is known to SS (thanks to whomever reported me last time I had a thread - genuinely grateful for the attempt to help me although I wasn't at the time).

She said from then I could apply for full residency ans she doesn't forsee any problems with that.

Unfortunately, I can't afford them as they do't take public funded work but she has given me the details of somewhere that does and phoned ahead to ask them to see me. I need to call them and make the appointment tomorrow with my new solicitor.

She gave me her card and asked me to keep her updated on how we are doing and said I am to call in an emergency. She said not to provoke him, but to get eberything in order before I move forward if I can. She also seemed very taken with the baby and he gave her lots of smiles. I'm glad I went as it was reassuring.

I can't wait to be free. Again today I got caught telling the baby I love him. But its ok for him to talk to him and refer to me as the miserable bitch to him instead of mummy. He is vile, I am honestly starting to hate him. He was in the pub tl after 8, when he had said he would be home at normal time. He said he didn't want to come home until the little bastards were in bed. He means my children, he always refers to them as bastards, fuckers, shits etc. He says they are soft and i've ruined them, he would rather take his child to the bathroom and drown him now rather than risk him turn out like them. I got in trouble for not eating what I was supposed during today, for wearing make up (only mascara) not doing enough housework, the list goes on. He is negative about everything and everyone, he sucks all the joy out of life. |He was telling me how he nearly got in a fight at the pub, reminding me that he can hurt people. Going on about how he would get his revenge on someone that crossed him at a later date, how he would mentally torture them etc

I am very scared of actually telling him to go, but am trying not to think about it. My mind wont go there, it is almost like it is blocked out.

Typing one handed, sorry about the typos.

Thank you again for your support.

Dear Zero,
keep trying WA and look at their checklists for what to do. The solicitors can be fab, but it all costs and good to get as many strands of support as you can.
Can you call the local police station and ask if you can speak to DV people as well, it sounds as though you shouldn't be alone when you tell him to go? Just keep gathering all the info you need so that you can work out what help is there and fits your circumstances. Knowledge is power and strength
You are doing so fantastically well.
'Sucks the joy out of life' sums it all up so well. What is the bloody point of behaving like that?

To be honest I wonder if you should have a refuge ready? Very worried about the threats of violence. Please keep trying Women's AId - it's so frustrating that people can't get through when they have plucked up so much courage to ring in the first place.