here we go. i knew it wouldnt take long....(long post!)

[ThatVikRinA22]

I have a very complex background, but to cut a long story short i have recently got in touch with my brother after about 12 years.

We had a very very bad upbringing. we were neglected and abused. i ended up in and out of care, he ended up homeless and on heroin.

i escaped our abusive parents at 15, married at 19, and have built a wonderful life for myself, with lovely DH and my two much loved children. I feel very guilty that i left my brother there, but i honestly thought he would be ok, they were very different with him while i was there. It seems when i left he got it, (then when he left, our mother got it)

My brother has only recently managed to turn his life around, but is doing very well, is off drugs, married, and has a child whom he appears to dote on. He admits he still has some issues around alcohol and cannabis.He has been nothing but honest with me.

we havent met up yet, as he is undergoing chemo treatment for hep c, but the plan is to meet up at some point. We do speak on the phone. I am being very careful, and am mindful of my job (i am a police officer)

Up until now, the subject of our "parents" hasnt really come up, though i am aware that our father (my step father to be precise) is dead and our mother now lives alone. My brother has chosen to stay in touch with her. I cut contact many years ago and am all the better for it - i did try for years to engage with her - but she is hard as nails, bitter, has a sense of entitlement that galls me and takes no responsibility for our past, and basically when i had contact with them both, i got very ill with panic attacks - when i cut contact they stopped. That says it all really.

My mother (and step thing) emigrated and never bothered to get in touch - i went on to move house and change my phone number.

i did find out when he (step thing) died, and my mother apparently then came back to live in the uk.

My brother says that she was very angry with me.

Anyway - i spoke recently to my brother who states that she is not averse to making contact with me. (ha ha ha fucking ha.)

he says she sends her best. (whatever the fuck that is)

he appears to want me to bury the hatchet, and appears to think i should be grateful that she wants some contact or something. he reckons he has dealt with his demons, and im very pleased for him, but the truth is that my life has been so much easier, calmer, nicer, without her in it. She will not tell me who my father is, and i cant forgive her for the things she put me through as a child.

I want a relationship with my brother. i want to meet his child and wife.

But now, with this rearing its head so quickly into our relationship - well i am a little spooked.
would you continue down this path?
would you continue to try and build some kind of relationship with my brother?
Would you give this woman a chance?
i dont want to end up feeling sorry for her, and i will, i always did, she is manipulative, and i have no doubt now, that she probably cuts a fairly pathetic figure - brother says she is an alcoholic.
but really - i feel like i got past all this and now.....i just dont need it. I have been so strong for so long, and i dont want that to waiver.

im sorry for the length of this post....and thanks if you got this far! i just want to hear what others think.
DH says i must do what i want, and truth is i would love to know who my father is, yet she always held this over me, and would never divulge even the smallest details, i dont even have a name., but i think she likes the sense of power and i dont want to give her that, i want to be free of how i felt all those years ago.

i guess my options are to back away completely from the whole lot of them.
to state clearly that i dont want contact with my mother
or to bite the bullet and allow contact with them all.

thoughts please....

mummytime - i suspect he has ASD but its not been diagnosed, im not sure he even realises (much like most of the men on my mothers side of the family - it is very prevalent but as far as im aware only my son has a diagnosis.

thanks everyone for the info on FB, i will sort this out as soon as possible.

well, im back for a rattle about todays session as i dont think it went terribly well.

i was late, didnt bank on the traffic trying to get to the shopping centre close by, so 10 mins late.

ive been busy, so not been dwelling too much on things. The counsellor asked me what i know...

i spoke briefly about my brothers reply to my msg, and he asked if that was ok - he asks that alot. i said it was ok, but that he was back tracking somewhat, and that we havent had any communication since.

i asked him about strategies to help me over come my feelings, he said there is no magic answer, no pill, which i realise, he said instead of measuring myself against the negative measuring stick i need to start to measure myself with a positive one....
he did an exercise, in which i had to fill out a self assessment on my strengths which i found genuinely painfully difficult, but he made me feel a bit silly, talked about wearing the "victim" coat which i actually think is a load of bollocks - victim mentality is something i havent got - (i dont think??) i dont wear my past on my sleeve, no one would know if i didnt tell them, i dont think i come across as a "victim" and i told him so.
what has happened is that all this shit has stirred up feelings and memories from my past, im not a professional victim. (its annoyed me a little, more so now than then)
he has given me another of the same paper exercise to complete at home, he wants more imaginative and deeper answers than i gave (i really struggled with this under the spotlight)

i find it easy to feel critical about myself, to feel i dont measure up somehow.
i find it hard to find the good.

i said i think the former is my "default" position, which he pointed out has been learned.

but he has said i must make an effort to measure myself positively, that others will not see me how i see myself, or i may as well give up now if im not worth the effort....He made me feel like im being stupid.

i feel quite stressed tonight - ive lost it with the kids and got very weepy, im tired, ive worked a very long week, ive got a 7 day week next week, and ive spent my days off so far cooking, cleaning, washing, with no help from DH or the kids, I had a facial booked today which was disturbed by DH phoning to get me home as he wanted the car for work....

at the very end i said i couldnt decide whether or not to take my brother advice and tell my mother what she did to me....he said i must do what ever makes me feel better.

simple as that then. why am i going for counselling?

i feel odd and crap and sad and fed up tonight, im alone except for two rather self centred teenagers, and dont know what to do with myself.

well, i have had a good talk to myself and i know now what i am going to do.

the counselling was pants today. fact.

i will go to the next session (but i am wondering if i am needing it - counsellor has told me i have low self esteem (no shit shirlock) and to change it i need to stop being negative and find the positive (double no shit shirlock - the question is HOW?)

if i ask my mother the question on who my father is - is am going to get one of 3 things.
1 - no reply
2 - a reply that is vague or saying she cannot remember (the standard response i have had all my life)
3 - an answer.

i am prepared for each of those possibilities, and none of them phase me. I am not going to lose anything by asking. if i ask the question, i can ask it and still be in control, and the only power to hurt me is a power i give her. I feel i am over that now. She cant hurt me because i am prepared for the answers (or no reply) and i have control over whether i respond or not. she can only hurt me if i let her hurt me. if i was in a different mind set then i guess it could, but after 12 years, i have come to the absolute realisation that she is not a mother, never has been, and never will be. I can speak to her, i can ask her a question, it doesnt change anything in my life, it doesnt matter if she replies or not.

so.

i think i am going to wait a while, perhaps talk this through with the counsellor, next session is only a couple of weeks away.

i feel i am counselling myself tbh. ill see what goes. not rushing into anything, ill mull this over a while longer.

Hey - sorry, I've been working tonight - not long been home.

Sorry it went so badly :(

I actually think he sounds like a crap counsellor tbh. Can you request a change to another one (you are getting this free though work aren't you?)??

I think you do need to talk to someone and have someone help you though this - someone who will help you build your self confidence, someone who will help you work through appreciating your good points and accepting compliments/good work reviews/love - not someone who makes you feel no shit sherlock' !! & certainly not someone who makes you feel silly and imposes things on you that aren't right (such as you having a victim mentality). I don't know how much is an MN front or how much VicarInaTuTu is the real you but Vic certainly never gives off a 'professional victim' whiff. I think if you continue with him, he will do more harm than good.

I absolutely agree that you have nothing to lose by asking your mother.

Sadly you are right, your mother never has been and never will be a Mum to you. That is one hell of a thing to have to come to terms with :( I don't even know how you'd do it - but I know you have to do it and not let it ruin your life.

Kick DH & the kids up the bum and make them do their share around the place!! I'll lend you my steel capped boots

lots of love
x

Thanks chipping , I'm panicking but need to get to bed as up at 6- just got off phone with brother , he is splitting with ho's wife due to his drug/ alcohol dependence, and domestic violence- and he us moving in with mother. Oh and he has just informed me he is coming to visit on Thursday.... Great.

You do know that you do not have to see your brother on Thursday or at any other time?

I would suggest that you defer any face to face meeting with your db until you have completed your counselling sessions, particularly as he is moving in with the woman who is named as 'mother' on your birth certificate.

BTW, hurrah for your counsellor. He recognises your intellligence and, as he's aware that as you have a finite number of sessions, he's moving you right along to where you need to be - in control of your thoughts, your emotions, and your feelings.

Well, I wish my counsellor was a little gentler with it, but my feelings in the last session have been usurped by my FB announcements last night.... Realistically, to get to my house, he would have to travel almost 30 miles on s moped... Not that I wouldn't put this past him... He was the one who a few weeks ago suggested we meet on neutral ground- he is all over the place and he really does talk some utter bollocks... Our conversation had been ok up til that point and I, stupidly, just did a rabbit in the headlights and mumbled ok... I will text him today. One a positive note he has got himself a full time job. It sounds like, from what he said, that he and his wife split upnoften , but the mote I talk to him the more the alarm bells ring. He is a mess. Worse than me.

Not FB announcement.... DB announcements... Bloody iPhone

As far as your db is concerned, the rabbit has switched off the headlights and morphed into a police officer who's going to be working flat out over the festive season which is traditionally a very busy time in the world of law enforcement, but maybe you'll be able to meet up sometime in the New Year never blah de blah.

I agree with your asessment that your db is 'a mess' but, as you very well know, he's not your mess to unravel, untangle, or otherwise clean up, unless you choose to don the Marigolds. In this instance, I would suggest you resist the temptation and adopt a strictly hands-off policy insofar as he is concerned.

As for your counsellor's methodology, do you want to spend 50 minutes on the couch of 'gentle' pyschoanalysis every week for the rest of your life pondering the equivalent of whether to buy a fresh or frozen turkey, considering the pain of dropping either bird on your big toe after you've made the purchase, and working through the hypothetical consequences of overcooking it, without any urge to achieve resolution?

Or do you want to lay the ghosts of your past to rest and move confidently forward into the bright future that awaits you whenever you choose to fully embrace it?

If the latter, please be aware that you already have the shovel that will enable you to bury any self-doubt that is standing in the way of you becoming all that you can be, and that your counsellor is merely a conduit to you being able to use it effectively whenever you feel 'less than' the amazing individual that you are and have always been.

Brace yourself - your time limited number of sessions could prove to be an emotionally rocky ride, but I have no doubt that the permanent gain you'll achieve will be well worth any temporary pain you experience during the process.

Vic - I hope you tell him that no, he is not going to be visiting you on Thursday - he doesn't get to decide that unilaterally. Tell him that you are not at all ready to meet face to face. I'd tell him to 'have a nice christmas & that you will be in touch next year' - give yourself a bit of space from them both.

He is a mess, his life is a mess, his relationship is a mess, his relationship with his mother is a mess... you don't need this mess in your life. Keep him very much at arms length.

I think you should see if you can change counsellors - I don't think this one is helping, I disagree that he's moving you on quickly - I think he's just not the one for you. Insisting you are acting like a victim and pointing out the fecking obvious without helping you to work out how to fix the issues is ignoring you, not moving you along.

Hey Vicar! See how strong you are, standing up and making that decision about your mum on your own. No hand holding, there, I see. I think Izzy has the right of it. Gentle handling will take a very long time.

Don't waste time telling your bro that you're not ready to see him. Harness that decisiveness you've got there, and TELL him Thursday's simply not on.

Why is your dh not taking responsibility for the environment in which he lives, but leaving it to you?

ok, job done. i texted Bro and told him i think its best if we stick to his idea to meet up on neutral ground and for me a day off would be better than a working day

(thursday is a working day for me - i will likely be tired as up at 5am and same again friday)

he text back one letter "k" but it will just have to be fine. its tough if its not. i put it off all day but i knew it had to be done.

we did have an illuminating talk last night. He is a mess. i wanted to believe that he had actually got his act together, but apart from getting off heroin (which i realise is no mean feat and credit to him where its due) he is still addicted to cannabis, insecure, paranoid and a drunk, who talks an inordinate amount of bollocks. seriously, bollocks. He contradicts himself all the time, comes out with some right hippy dippy hoohah, seems to think he "knows" me, my kids, my DH, (he said he remembered that my son didnt like cuddles - he has obviously been reading the autism hand book but he couldnt be more wrong! DS is very affectionate) its all a bit odd. He hasnt seen me, my DH or my kids in more than 12 years....he was just a kid himself really so god knows what he thinks he remembers?

However - he did apologise for his wrong doings when he lived with me, and he said he was sorry to have missed out on my children growing up.

we talked about our mother - he says he didnt speak to her for 5 years, but decided to give her a second chance. He says she is incredibly incredibly selfish, that his dd is ill again he says he tried to talk to her about it - he says he got about 4 sentences in when she started going on about online gaming again so he gave up

tells me all i need to know. im not going there. i will ask her my question, but that will be that.

he thinks she has aspergers (pot - kettle - black?)

he says she "didnt know how bad" our step father was until he started hitting her (which just galls me and left me quite speechless - there is no way on earth she can say that - its just a lie! so it was perfectly ok for him to hit and abuse us but she only saw it when it happened to her? that made me angry actually.

he says he is getting his drinking under control by riding his moped so he cannot drink, but he says he likes a drink and thinks he got that from his dad....(seems strange to me that he would want to emulate someone so vile) he drinks cider which he knows is bad for his liver etc, especially as he has had chemo for Hepatitis C.

One think i have realised is that i cannot "save" him. i can talk to him, i actually still feel protective of him though i am trying to squish that back where it belongs.... i am going to have to be firm with myself, because this is something that is not my mess to sort out, and i do realise that. I feel sorry that his marriage seems to be over, and that there is a little girl in the middle of it. He does not appear to see the significance of any of that at all, he just kept sayimg it was fine, that they are friends and that as long as he gets to see his DD he is ok (he asked me not to dwell on it because he didnt want to get "het up" over it...

i told him how i felt about our mother, and he says it is entirely up to me whether or not i contact her. I asked him if she had ever told him anything about my father and it seems he got the same stock answer as me - which is she cannot remember. (another lie from her then)

brother appeared to think he was american....???? but thats not one ive ever heard before i have to say. i said i needed to know for my own gentic history - he has such a simplistic child like attitude - he said he cant have had anything wrong with him or he wouldnt have been in the army so seemed to think that should satisfy me on that score....(urm no!)

so we talked for a while and he then at the end of the call said he wanted to come and visit me, i protested a little saying how could he travel that far on his moped but he said he wanted to etc etc....and i mumbled and ummed and ahhed and felt crap about saying no so i didnt....

but ive put that right now. Ive got to speak up and do what i need to do, i just find it hard, which is probably another good reason to keep him at something of a distance for now, until i can be stronger with him. I am fairly sure he will feel a bit crap about it, and i hate hurting people, but it didnt feel right at all. still - thats sorted now. plus if he is living with mother thats a little too close for comfort.

not going to do anything with anything until after my next counselling. not sure if they will be on the agenda but whatever - i will wait.

thanks again all for your thoughts, advice and wise words. im going to go running in a bit to clear the cobwebs in my foggy head. im trying to keep up with exercise, eating well etc as dont want to start getting stressed.

oh - i didnt answer the point about DH and the kids....not worth going there. DH and i have not seen each other this week at all - and its probably a good job as he is pissing me right off. he knows nothing of this last night with brother...i havent seen him to tell him and he doesnt ask anyway. i have been in tears twice in the last two days because of no one helping around the house, and usually i am not prone to hissy fits or tears.

i asked DH to get up this morning to see DD out as she was going shopping as no school, and i was at work early on a training day - he refused. i often get 4 hours sleep, get up and see kids out then go back to bed. when i pointed that out he simply said "im not you though".
no point in talking to him while im pissed off with him, which may mean we never speak again at this rate....

i was talking to a pal last night and she suggested going to a retreat for a couple of days - im not religious but the idea is one that appeals, a couple of calm, quiet days in a monastery.

i am quite possibly going mad.

With no disrespect for those who are seriously conflicted with mental health issues that are not of their choice or making, 'going mad' is an option that is open to many of us.

I've sometimes thought that it would be nice to be relieved of any legal or other responsibility for my actions and that life in an institution free of everyday cares holds a certain appeal, but I'm the type that can become 'institutionlised' after a few days in an hotel - once I'm home I'm wondering why my bed hasn't been changed and what's happened to room service.

I stay relatively sane by meditating daily and by going on 48 hour or longer retreats at least once a year. Like yourself, I have no religious beliefs but I take advantage of any spiritual direction that's on offer because I believe that we are more than just our thoughts and that, presupposing that there is life after death, while I have may have no concern for my eternal soul on the basis that it will survive regardless, I do have concern for the 'soul' that is mine in the here and now - the 'essence' of me, so to speak, the quiet place deep inside my corporeal body that I need to connect with on a regular basis in order to feel 'whole' and complete.

Prolonged periods of silence are essential to my 'spiritual' wellbeing and it is bliss to be among like-minded people without being under any pressure to engage in conversation or otherwise interact with them.

Unfortunately, running doesn't do it for me but 'living in the moment' when engaging in a physcial activity can give us a sense of nirvana and of course, those feel-good endorphins kick in after the event.

Although your brother moving in with his mother may make you feel as if you have a two-headed dragon to slay, or a double peak mountain to climb, try not to lose sight of the fact that they are two separate entities and that, as you have already observed, they only have the power to hurt you or impact on your life if you let them.

For the time being I would suggest that you choose not to let them.

thats very interesting to me Izzy - i had no idea you meditate or do the retreat thing, but the retreat is something i feel very strongly, right now, would help me. I have never been before, but i tend to follow my instincts on things because, so far, they have never been off. i have no idea why the idea came to me, but it did, and its one that appeals. I am going to look into it. i feel that i need this right now.

and i know you are absolutely right. I am only going to get hurt if i LET them hurt me, and in that i have a choice, and while i may wobble, i am finding the courage to say NO.

for all my brothers protestations that he has a great relationship with our mother i get the sneaking suspicion that that may be more in his head than the reality. Really everything he said confirms my initial gut reaction was right.

i cannot tell you how much this thread has helped me, and is helping me work this out for myself, its so liberating being able to speak freely and have others speak freely with their opinions, which have been so helpful. so thank you.

Well done, Vicar, knew you could do it!

Retreat sounds good. Get some time entirely away from everything, peace and quiet. May look at one for myself.

I've made numerous retreats to centres of religious worship, CofE, Anglican, Catholic etc, without having any desire to become a follower and without anyone attempting convert me to their cause.

Although having no religious belief myself, I sometimes pop into churches between services if I feel in need of a few minutes quiet reflection en route to yet another challenging destination. Sadly, it's an unfortunate reflection of our times that many churches are not open outside of hours, so to speak, and I often find myself thwarted in my attempts to find a little solitude in the midst of a bustling city.

In your chosen profession you are continually in communication with a vast variety of people that you may never see again. You are constantly on display and on call if you are out and about, and there's no chance of peace and quiet in a busy police station except maybe around the noon hours of Christmas day.

The stresses of working in law enforcement can easily spill over into one's home life and I would suggest that, if you don't already do so, you attempt to shed your 'police hat' either before or immediately after you arrive home. If you are in uniform, changing in and out of it can be symbolic of the separation of work and home and may enable you to quickly divest yourself of either 'role' - although I suspect you are beginning to find that once a police officer, always a police officer.

Despite what your instincts may be telling you, I would suggest 'right now' is not necessarily the optimum time for you to make a retreat. You may find waiting until you are further into your counselling, or when it is at an end, more advantageous.

In the Christian faith, Lent is a time for giving something up - be that a favourite indulgence or, I believe more appropriately, a negative habit. If you make a retreat in the 40 days before Good Friday, you could take with you your past and present insecurities and fears with the intention of giving them up and letting them go during your stay.

As you can see, I find the archetypes and symbolism of Judeo-Christian mythology a way of setting a purpose for my retreats as I prefer to have an, albeit fluid, goal in mind before I set out. My 5 or 10 minutes daily mediation is a form of 'maintenance' between times.

You may find that a Society of Friends (Quakers) retreat provides a less fearful way of dipping your toe in to the water of being away from home and entirely alone with your thoughts for 48 hours or more than, say, a nunnery or similar.

However, I've made retreats in Catholic establishments both in the UK and in Europe. On occasion I've made my retreat in Spain in high summer as either the start or end to a holiday of sun, sea, sangria and something else beginning with 's'

I am only going to get hurt if i LET them hurt me, and in that i have a choice, and while i may wobble, i am finding the courage to say NO.

One thing you very definitely don't lack, Vicar, is courage and I know that you already possess the insight that will enable you to realise that your statement, above, can also be applied to your doubts that you are 'good enough' or your fears that you are 'less worthy' than others.

When you feel those doubt and fears arise, and when you feel yourself begin to wobble and give in to the temptation to entertain them and give them some house room in your mind, dig deep and find the courage to say --fuck off- no to them.

I would hasten to add that this is not in any way an exercise in 'suppressing' thoughts. It is a way of bringing order to our thoughts by not allowing them to dictate us.

Once we understand that our thoughts can only hurt us if we allow them to, and once we get into the habit of mastering our negative thoughts instead of allowing them to master us, we can begin to study our negative thoughts from a place of safety and reject those that no longer have validity in our lives.

thanks Jux i texted brother today and i have not had an answer, which is unusual as normally if i have texted i have had a reply - but im not going to feel bad or guilty - its what i needed to do and if thats not ok with him then i will have to live with it, and i can live with it.

izzy that is very profound and so very true - it is exactly what i need to do with those thoughts. I realise that it takes me a while, and i dont respond in the right way immediately, but i realise that i am saying and doing things that i was too frightened to do in the past - ie - say NO and not feel bad about it, it just take a little time to get around to it. i hope very much that i will begin to recognise when i need to do the same with self destructive thoughts and ideas, and turn that around.

and i believe you are totally right about the retreat - i think i will plan to do this as my counselling finishes, a time of quiet reflection on what i have learnt about myself in all of this would be useful.

Izzy - hope its ok but ive pm'd you - a friend has suggested a retreat that teaches meditation.

I have been following this thread and I dont wish to be negative but I really do not see that you are getting anything out of this. It is just a whole can of worms!

Just leave it be. You cant change the past. Nothing can justify it. Look forward and enjoy your future.

thank you iwantwine - all views welcomed, and appreciated, but not quite sure what you mean?
do you mean i should stop the contact with my brother?
not message my mother to ask about my father?
stop the counselling?
or something else? would you mind explaining a little more what you mean?

i feel ok about it all at the minute because i am very clear in my own mind what is and what isnt acceptable for me (even if it takes me a few hours to say it) - and i feel in control, but if i were to start to feel things spiral i hope i would have the foresight to call a halt to it.

i have just had a text back from brother - he says he is fine, that my mother is not going to try to contact me again and that he will not pressure me in any way as he knows i "have issues" - seems to be ok with meeting up at some other time, though he doesnt know when....

i feel at the moment that while i am conflicted about my brother, and his lifestyle, i would like to try to maintain some contact with him and see how it goes. i am treading very carefully.

as regards my mother i am quite certain that i want no contact - i do however want to send a message asking if she will tell me who my father is - i find that one thing very difficult to just 'leave be'.

i know i have wobbles, but i find that i am talking myself into answers that feel ok for me, but i do really value other viewpoints, as i am open to considering everything at the moment.

I have to disagree with IWantWine. Having read your thread I see that this is something that has the power to stop you from looking forward and enjoying the future. You can't move on until you find some sort of resolution and that's what you're searching for.

I speak from some personal experience when I say that I think the only way forward for you is for you to reach the point where you can think about your mother without having all those awful ugly feelings that go together with thinking about her. The only way to get to that point is to forgive her.

I don't say that lightly, and I certainly don't believe forgiveness means restoration of relationship. I believe it is possible to forgive someone, and still never have contact with them again, if that's what is necessary in the situation.

Forgiving someone frees US from the hold they have over us. For me, I believe in God so it's about handing it all over to God to be judge and jury in the situation. It's not about letting someone off the hook, rather asking God to do justice from his perspective.

Even if you don't believe in God, I think many of the world's religions and philosophies say very similar things about the freedom forgiveness brings. Maybe this is something you can look into when you go on retreat.

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to convert you to my faith, I just see your pain long to be able to help you be free from it all so you can truly move forward and enjoy the future, whatever that may hold.

I beg to differ IWantWine.

There is no limit to our imaginations or to the power of our minds and it is possible to change the past and, if we wish, create an entirely different past for ourselves than the one(s) we've experienced.

You were a victim in the past, Vicar, but you do not have to be a victim of the past in the present or the future.