here we go. i knew it wouldnt take long....(long post!)

[ThatVikRinA22]

I have a very complex background, but to cut a long story short i have recently got in touch with my brother after about 12 years.

We had a very very bad upbringing. we were neglected and abused. i ended up in and out of care, he ended up homeless and on heroin.

i escaped our abusive parents at 15, married at 19, and have built a wonderful life for myself, with lovely DH and my two much loved children. I feel very guilty that i left my brother there, but i honestly thought he would be ok, they were very different with him while i was there. It seems when i left he got it, (then when he left, our mother got it)

My brother has only recently managed to turn his life around, but is doing very well, is off drugs, married, and has a child whom he appears to dote on. He admits he still has some issues around alcohol and cannabis.He has been nothing but honest with me.

we havent met up yet, as he is undergoing chemo treatment for hep c, but the plan is to meet up at some point. We do speak on the phone. I am being very careful, and am mindful of my job (i am a police officer)

Up until now, the subject of our "parents" hasnt really come up, though i am aware that our father (my step father to be precise) is dead and our mother now lives alone. My brother has chosen to stay in touch with her. I cut contact many years ago and am all the better for it - i did try for years to engage with her - but she is hard as nails, bitter, has a sense of entitlement that galls me and takes no responsibility for our past, and basically when i had contact with them both, i got very ill with panic attacks - when i cut contact they stopped. That says it all really.

My mother (and step thing) emigrated and never bothered to get in touch - i went on to move house and change my phone number.

i did find out when he (step thing) died, and my mother apparently then came back to live in the uk.

My brother says that she was very angry with me.

Anyway - i spoke recently to my brother who states that she is not averse to making contact with me. (ha ha ha fucking ha.)

he says she sends her best. (whatever the fuck that is)

he appears to want me to bury the hatchet, and appears to think i should be grateful that she wants some contact or something. he reckons he has dealt with his demons, and im very pleased for him, but the truth is that my life has been so much easier, calmer, nicer, without her in it. She will not tell me who my father is, and i cant forgive her for the things she put me through as a child.

I want a relationship with my brother. i want to meet his child and wife.

But now, with this rearing its head so quickly into our relationship - well i am a little spooked.
would you continue down this path?
would you continue to try and build some kind of relationship with my brother?
Would you give this woman a chance?
i dont want to end up feeling sorry for her, and i will, i always did, she is manipulative, and i have no doubt now, that she probably cuts a fairly pathetic figure - brother says she is an alcoholic.
but really - i feel like i got past all this and now.....i just dont need it. I have been so strong for so long, and i dont want that to waiver.

im sorry for the length of this post....and thanks if you got this far! i just want to hear what others think.
DH says i must do what i want, and truth is i would love to know who my father is, yet she always held this over me, and would never divulge even the smallest details, i dont even have a name., but i think she likes the sense of power and i dont want to give her that, i want to be free of how i felt all those years ago.

i guess my options are to back away completely from the whole lot of them.
to state clearly that i dont want contact with my mother
or to bite the bullet and allow contact with them all.

thoughts please....

If I were you, I would stay completely away from your mother. No good can come of it - you say you are happier without her influence, don't allow her to gain any kind of hold over you again. If you feel it is possible to continue to build a relationship with your brother, then do you feel you can carry on without being inveigled into contact with your mother?

If your brother is nothing but honest with you then be honest with him; tell him how you feel about seeing your mother again.

It doesn't seem like you'd gain anything from contact with her (well, other than major stress).

Have you seen your birth certificate?

I think in your shoes I'd say to the brother that I'm not ready to renew a relationship with the mother and may never be, and that he should respect my decision. If he continued to push it, I think I'd rethink contact with him.

You've only just reconnected with him, so it needs to go slowly and to develop: he shouldn't be forcing the pace or trying to mend fences that aren't his to mend.

I think you should tell him clearly that while he may have resolved his issues with her, you have not, and are not ready to yet or possibly ever, and it's your right and your decision to protect yourself from her. If he won't respect that, then he's not on your side, and withdrawing might be best.

i agree with peggotty.

see if you can form a relationship with your brother. but your mum sounds beyond toxic. it's very unlikely she's changed and will give you any info about your dad.

what an awful situation. so sorry you have to deal with this.

vicar, you have clearly done a brilliant job turning your life around. So, if every fibre of your being is telling you to keep away from your mother, then bloody trust your instincts. Every word in your post tells me you KNOW contact with your mother is a bad idea. Trust yourself.

Continue to build your relationship with your brother, and if poss steer him gently away from discussions about your mother. Maybe you could tell him you're not ready to go down that road yet and that your relationship with him is your priority.

thats the problem peggotty....i just dont know. He talks about her quite often and thats fine - in fact i am curious, but i just was taken aback a bit at how quickly this has happened.

my brother and i are friends now on facebook - and suddenly - after a few weeks - up she pops. she now has a facebook account. she posts on his wall all the time and comments on his photos.
her timing is fecking impeccable....

I would not get into any contact with her.

You have to look after yourself.

make sure your brother is aware that you are going to be very cross if he "accidentally" arranges the two of you to bump into each other.

minniebar - yes i have my birth certificate. The fathers details box is blank.

they had split before i was born. she told me she went for an abortion and then i was meant to be adopted.

my first few years were spent with my grandparents until she met step thing.

I wouldn't get involved with your mother again. I would suggest that you tell your brother that you want to get to know him and build a relationship with him and that you are open to having a relationship with your mother perhaps in the future but you can only deal with one thing at a time. Explain that if you are put under pressure to have a relationship with your Mum now you will not cope but hope that one day you will be ready.

Very strictly speaking perhaps that is a lie. My relationship with my parents it dire/toxic. I do hope one day I can increase the contact from 2 emails per year but I suspect hell may freeze over first .

It was just a thought from my own perceptions with my parents of a way to keep the door open with your brother without engaging with your Mum for a long long long time.

Not everybody is better off having their mum in their lives. I certainly am, my life is calmer, pleasant and non-abusive without her in it. My sister has a distant relationship with her as she still has this image of how a mother should be and wants her to match up to it, which she never does. I don't have a very close relationship with my sister, but we have come to an understanding that she will continue trying with our mum while I won't

I will never know who my dad is either, what went on in my early childhood (foggy memories of mum with one-night stands and abuse), why exactly i was taken into care - SS and other family members told me it was too horrific for me to ever know. She makes the odd attempt contact and taunts me with the fact I will never know these things if i don't let her back in. I have decided though, that I am now very settled with my life and am not going to give her another opportunity to fuck it all up.

You need to decide what is best for you and your DH and children, and not let yourself be persuaded by your mother or brother.

my brother seems very child like....my son has asperger syndrome and im pretty sure my brother has it, so while he is incredibly stoic and forgiving he is also very inept on the whole emotions front.

i just dont know what to do anymore. i am sure that i dont want her in my life. i would like to know who my father is.

It does sound as though there is inevitably going to be at least some form of indirect contact then, through your brother, if things continue as they are.....?

Perhaps tell your brother that until she will tell you who your father is then you have no interest in ever seeing her again - perhaps it will force her hand?

I don't know it's all mind games but very difficult when you want a relationship with your brother.

indirect i can cope with.

i just really dont want to see her or talk to her.

if she had wanted to make amends, she surely wouldnt be using my brother to do it for her, - it just shows how manipulative she is. Plus she takes absolutely no responsibility at all for our dire dire child hood. she makes out she is just another victim. she actually threatened me with my step father - she knew how terrified of him i was and used him to make me do whatever she wanted.

i just cannot go back there.

Vicar :(

I would be a little bit devious - tell your brother that you will consider some contact with her once she has disclosed who your father is and until that time you do not want any contact with her or any 'messages' from her via him.

Tell him you are deleting him from your facebook and will keep in touch via email/phone whatever.

You have to put a stop to this - she/they will drag you in and your life will become messy. She's toxic and you do not need her in your life.
x

Okay so she is a completely horribly manipulative person. Chipping has a good idea I think.

x-post with you and random mess :) Great minds think alike.

You are deluding yourself if you think you can deal with 'indirect contact' - you are curious and that is dragging you into their web :( You do not need to know all the crap he's passing on, you have done well for many years without all that - you need to be strong and tell him that you do not want to discuss her and nor do you want any 'messages' from her and that if he cannot respect that you will have to stop contact with him too - you are not looking after yourself right now :(

Lay on thick (well it's the truth tbh) that contact made you very very unwell and for your own sanity you can't cope with it. Again I am probably projecting but in the end that is what I explain to people - they don't understand that I have forgiven my parents yet mentally/emotionally I just can't have contact with them yet (ever?) I'm too afraid of what it may do to me after working so hard to get over it IYSWIM.

wow, you have alot to deal with here.

anything IF at all should be at your pace, and she can't hope that you will get in contact just becuase you are building something with your brother.

surely she has to earn it. your time your headspace.

god if feel for you but also you sound really adjusted and you have built a great life as you say.

i know she is toxic and i know i dont want contact. (a tiny part of me wants a mother - but i have accepted that i dont have one)

i will have to be strong and tell my brother that i wish her well but am not ready for contact.

trouble was - the way he was about it. he was saying he was surprised by how "warm hearted" she was toward me.

its a fucking joke isnt it. really. and i am not interested and im too bloody weak to just tell him.
he did say no pressure. but even just talking to me about her, passing on messsages, makes me feel pressured.

I would not give her an inch, and you would be wise to tell your brother that whilst you would wish to have a relationship with him any contact with your mother is not on the cards.

You have a happy life, why bring back the past and send yourself into what could be a vicious circle of depression and panic attacks?

I think first of all, block her on facebook, then she cant see your posts, and you wont see hers either.

I also think you have to put yourself, and your immediate family first. Weigh up if there will be any benefits to your life by allowing her back into it. I have to say, I cant see any.

You are not depriving your children of a loving grandmother by the sounds of it.

I am sure your brother has his heart in the right place, and is trying to repair his family, but some things are beyond repair, and from what you have posted, I would think this is one of those irrepairable breaks.

i am fine - really - i never had depression. the panic attacks - well i didnt know what they were - i ended up on a 24 hour ECG machine....they manifested themselves in a very physical way - usually just as i was falling asleep at night - my heart would go crazy and my mouth would go dry and i would hyperventilate....but i didnt know it was panic attacks....the gp finally told me when all my physical tests showed nothing. then when i cut contact it stopped.
but i havent suffered with depression since i moved out, funnily enough.

i will have to steel myself to tell my brother that i am happy to have contact with him but thats as far as it goes. he is also encouraging contact with step things family....no way jose. but on that i am very clear. it aint gonna happen.

i just wanted this to be ok. maybe its not going to work out.

I suppose these things never really get entirely laid to rest - things can sometime be like a spiral - you think you have dealt with it and then it reappears further up the spiral in a different form.

I think you need to explain to your brother that it is only him you are interested in.

He must NOT try and get you to pick up the threads with other members of the family and step thing. He absolutely must not. It's not his decision to make for you. If you understands that then good and I hope you can have a decent relationship with him.

vicar, it's fecking cruel (no blame on your brother) to hear how 'warm' she seemed.

it's a joke alright, and the one thing that i think would start to eat at me would be anger, and where to put that anger.