here we go. i knew it wouldnt take long....(long post!)

[ThatVikRinA22]

I have a very complex background, but to cut a long story short i have recently got in touch with my brother after about 12 years.

We had a very very bad upbringing. we were neglected and abused. i ended up in and out of care, he ended up homeless and on heroin.

i escaped our abusive parents at 15, married at 19, and have built a wonderful life for myself, with lovely DH and my two much loved children. I feel very guilty that i left my brother there, but i honestly thought he would be ok, they were very different with him while i was there. It seems when i left he got it, (then when he left, our mother got it)

My brother has only recently managed to turn his life around, but is doing very well, is off drugs, married, and has a child whom he appears to dote on. He admits he still has some issues around alcohol and cannabis.He has been nothing but honest with me.

we havent met up yet, as he is undergoing chemo treatment for hep c, but the plan is to meet up at some point. We do speak on the phone. I am being very careful, and am mindful of my job (i am a police officer)

Up until now, the subject of our "parents" hasnt really come up, though i am aware that our father (my step father to be precise) is dead and our mother now lives alone. My brother has chosen to stay in touch with her. I cut contact many years ago and am all the better for it - i did try for years to engage with her - but she is hard as nails, bitter, has a sense of entitlement that galls me and takes no responsibility for our past, and basically when i had contact with them both, i got very ill with panic attacks - when i cut contact they stopped. That says it all really.

My mother (and step thing) emigrated and never bothered to get in touch - i went on to move house and change my phone number.

i did find out when he (step thing) died, and my mother apparently then came back to live in the uk.

My brother says that she was very angry with me.

Anyway - i spoke recently to my brother who states that she is not averse to making contact with me. (ha ha ha fucking ha.)

he says she sends her best. (whatever the fuck that is)

he appears to want me to bury the hatchet, and appears to think i should be grateful that she wants some contact or something. he reckons he has dealt with his demons, and im very pleased for him, but the truth is that my life has been so much easier, calmer, nicer, without her in it. She will not tell me who my father is, and i cant forgive her for the things she put me through as a child.

I want a relationship with my brother. i want to meet his child and wife.

But now, with this rearing its head so quickly into our relationship - well i am a little spooked.
would you continue down this path?
would you continue to try and build some kind of relationship with my brother?
Would you give this woman a chance?
i dont want to end up feeling sorry for her, and i will, i always did, she is manipulative, and i have no doubt now, that she probably cuts a fairly pathetic figure - brother says she is an alcoholic.
but really - i feel like i got past all this and now.....i just dont need it. I have been so strong for so long, and i dont want that to waiver.

im sorry for the length of this post....and thanks if you got this far! i just want to hear what others think.
DH says i must do what i want, and truth is i would love to know who my father is, yet she always held this over me, and would never divulge even the smallest details, i dont even have a name., but i think she likes the sense of power and i dont want to give her that, i want to be free of how i felt all those years ago.

i guess my options are to back away completely from the whole lot of them.
to state clearly that i dont want contact with my mother
or to bite the bullet and allow contact with them all.

thoughts please....

I too disagree with Iwantwine. Vicar, you have tried leaving the past behind and burying it, but pasts have a habit of informing and modulating our presents and futures and then popping up unexpectedly causing havoc. That is why the past needs to be dealt with and put to bed.

I think you have actually come rather a long way in a short time, an indication of your intelligence and insight.

Cenicienta, I know exactly what you mean about forgiveness. This is something I am struggling with myself!

gosh, the concept of forgiveness....i think i maybe have a way to go on that one, although i never want to be consumed by bitterness or wish anything bad for her, im not sure how far down the line, or how much counselling i would need to forgive her. In a way i think my brother has done far better on that score, because he has forgiven her and accepts her for the bitter, twisted, manipulative, narrow minded, sharp tongued hag that she is.

see. i think i may have a way to go.

the thing that seems odd is that the man she married, the man who physically and emotionally abused me for 8 years, he hardly ever enters my head. I feel nothing at all toward him, he is gone and he doesnt matter to me one iota. he doesnt affect me. sometimes the things he did to me come back to me, sometimes i remember the things he called me, but he doesnt hurt me now.

she does. the thought of what she did does, and i realise that is because i had no emotional investment in him at all, at the time i hated him, after i left i forgot him, but i loved my mum, and it wasnt returned. I think thats one of the reasons her recent message hurt - she claimed to love me, claimed to be proud of me.

anyway, onward and upward. i will manage this. i know i will. but im not sure how i forgive her, or find any peace with what she did.

I think your analysis is spot on. You loved your mum and trusted her, you were a child, she was supposed to protect you but she didn't. That's a massive betrayal. Of course it's hard to forgive or forget. The man, pah! An arsehole who's long gone. Much easier.

How do you feel about the Stately Homes threads? Do you think they might be helpful.

the stately homes threads? do tell?

Forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting. And it doesn't mean saying the bad things that happened don't matter.

It means acknowledging that someone has behaved very, very badly and they will always be a part of your history. But you get to the point where those things, and the person who did them to you don't have that power over you any more.

You are able to think about those things and yes, feel some pain, but without feeling the anger and bitterness that is absolutely normal and human to feel after such betrayal. Some people are able to restore relationship after forgiving someone. Others for a number of reasons decide that would be unhelpful. The main thing right now is that you find peace so that you can move on with your life.

If you want to talk more about this, feel free to message me. I can point you in the direction of some useful reading material.

God, yes, the Stately Homes threads would be perfect for you- the women there are amazing. I will find you a link...

cheers Bof...(that is you in festive guise isnt it? )

cenicienta - thank you for that - it may be useful, i will pm you.

This is one of the earliest ones- have a look through to get an idea of how they developed. I'll look for the current one too...

cheers for that, i will probably not get to look tonight but will sit down and read at the first available opportunity....my week goes a bit nuts from tomorrow with wappy shifts and such like....i will probably read them at 3am!

off for a bit of telly and a glass of wine....thanks again.

cenicienta - i will pm you soon (prob not tonight) for that info. thanks.

This looks like the current one. Much love x

I bet you have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of people just like your mother in your job . If you do decide to approach her i would use that professional detachment to get what YOU need from her and then move on . If she is an alcoholic (practising not reformed ) then she will be too busy feeling sorry for herself and blaming everyone else to be much good to you .
Someone mentioned how you might feel if she died tomorrow , i know of plenty of people who have only felt relief when their alcoholic parent eventually dies .

IMO we're not made to 'forgive' anyone except ourselves.

As I'm sure cenicienta would be the first to agree, the Christian faith exhorts the faithful to 'judge not lest ye be judged' and the earlier testaments state that 'Vengeance is mine saith the Lord'.

You don't need to forgive to find peace of mnd, Vicar. All you need to do is reach an accomodation within yourself that enables you to see/realise that you were wronged - not because you did anything wrong, but because the adults who should have nurtured and protected you from harm chose to abdicate their reponsibilities.

Because the woman whose womb you chose as the vehicle to faciitate your journey to this planet failed to protect you is no reason why you should measure yourself according to her scales, and if you weigh yourself against your conscience you will find that she has no substance.

I say to you again that you were a victim in the past but you do not have to be a victim of the past in the present or the future, and I believe that this is what your counsellor was trying to convey to you when he challenged your existing beliefs that have made you your own worst enemy.

As you can see from this thread, your life history has attracted nothing other than an outpourng of heartfelt sympathy for the abuse you suffered. Nevertheless, I would caution you against confiding your intensely personal story to any of your colleagues in the force no matter how empathetic you may believe them to be.

Please bear in mind that after the physical act of our births we can start or restart our lives at any point we choose. Whenever you feel conflicted by choice, choose life - and choose to live it on your own terms.

thank you again izzy - you do speak such sense. I feel that on the whole, i had managed to get to a place where the past did not have much bearing on what i was doing in the present, but this recent contact from my mother has opened up a wound that i need to heal, and made me realise that my self esteem isnt brilliant for a reason, and now i need to work on that. I think the job i am doing has brought all sorts of new insecurities with it, the unknown, the feeling of being out of my depth.

speaking of which,thinking about it a few of my colleagues know little bits, bits and pieces because i have used some of my experiences from the past to great use in the job, for instance i went to a very drunk self harming teen in a childrens home, who said she wanted to be a police officer....a colleague was there with me, i talked her down, and into going to the hospital with her dad who she didnt want to see her like that...my colleague was lost, he didnt have a clue what to say to her and i did, so i just took over, (i never self harmed btw - they ask you all this before you join the job - i think if you were unstable it would be the worst job in the world because you deal with so many unstable or hurt people)

some of my past experiences i put to very positive use in this job.

i also take issue when certain (mainly one) colleagues slate addicts as being scum etc...

all some of them know is that i grew up in and out of care and left home young, that i married young and have 2 kids, one with SN, a couple know my brother was an addict and that we have made recent tentative contact, most know i do not stay in touch with any family. (from small talk - most people talk about their parents, i have always just said i dont see them)

i realise now that that is probably too much.

no one knows specific. I never struggle at work emotionally, no matter how distressing the job is sometimes, and no one asks about anything personal, i think when i have said anything i have been very matter of fact, and closed the conversation. No one would even know that i struggle with anything on a day to day basis. I never talk about my problems, even the mundane stuff.

i am also outgoing and i laugh alot at work, i dont tend to talk about myself much, i tend to get on with things and there are others on my shift who have things going on, and who are very open.

i hope i have handled things ok at work, everyone knows little bits about each other, and because we spend such a lot of time cooped up together in a car you tend to talk, although i am more often the listener than the talker.

i am going to make a very conscious effort to not talk about it at all to colleagues, people have short memories anyway and as a shift, most like to talk about themselves, and i am more comfortable letting them.

i am concious that i dont want them to "see" me in a different light.

Your past experiences will be invaluable to you in your chosen profession, Vicar, as they have given you an insight and an intuition that many of your colleagues will never possess.

I've counselled you to keep your childhood experiences private from your colleagues because you are working in an hierarchical institution that continues to be riddled with chavinism, and many of the dinosaurs are still running the show.

To rapidly progress in such an institution it is necessary to show that you are a safe pair of hands, a 'steady as you go' reliable, punctual, responsible member of the force, and to this end you're best advised to be circumspect when it comes to your personal life and to keep it separate from your professional life.

Mavericks and original thinkers are rarely encouraged but are tolerated, however, IME it is best to keep a somewhat low profile until you have climbed the ranks to inspector or beyond especially if you want to move to CID.

I would also advise you to find a mentor, preferably a ranking senior officer and perhaps one who is not too far off retirment so that there an be no accusations of favouritism if you begin to leave your present colleagues behind through promotion. The wisdom you'll gain from dedicated one-to-one time with such an individual will be invaluable.

Above all remember that those you serve, namely the general public, need police officers like yourself who are able to draw on their past experiences in order to see the bigger picture.

I believe that you will be able to validate yourself through your work and that your self-esteem will grow in leaps and bounds as you continue to go about your daily duties. As you've said, your interviewing and training officers 'saw' something in you and I don't consider that you'll have any difficulty proving that their faith in you was not misplaced.

thank you izzy - i know that you are right and giving too much away would more likey go against me than not, or at least colour how people see me. my sgt has no idea, nor does my inspector, and its not something that my colleagues are likely to speak to them about, (plus they really do know very little any way when i think about it)

i will make sure i keep my cards a little more close to my chest.

well, i spoke with 'D'B again today as he phoned me, i think he wanted to rant about the split with his wife, but its all so skewed and perverse....he cheated on her, then wanted an open relationship, then she cheated on him, and now he is angry blah blah blah...she slept with his mate blah blah blah
and she says he can have full custody of their baby, he says she isnt a great mother due to her own issues with her mother...
what am i meant to do? nod and sympathise while they toss aside their child, or screw her up? i dont think that child stands a chance. i dont understand any of it, and cant pretend to, and i dont want to be involved in any of it. i find it so distasteful.

every fibre of my being is telling me this is a world i don't want into.

he and my mother were reminiscing over old photos yesterday apparently....he says she wont pressure me but would like to speak to me and knows it will be bad...

wrong.

it wont be bad because i have no desire to speak with her.

i feel like ive got myself into something i want out of just as quickly, and i just keep putting it off.
one minute i think it will be ok if i can just hold him at arms length, a chat on the phone every now and then, nothing much more.
next i just want to go back to how things were a year ago, when they didnt feature in my life, and i didnt think about them.

She is pressuring you through your brother. Again ignore everything before that but, she wont pressure you but... would like to speak to you. Who gives a shit what she would like? From what you have posted she gave up the right to want/like anything a long long time ago!

They are both totally ignoring what you have said. Neither of them is respecting you or your choice. Your DB is bringing up your mother in every way/conversation. They have been reminiscing (to soften you up) and she wants to talk to you.

If you DB actually had an ounce of respect and understanding he would do what you have asked and there would be no inclusion of your mother in your conversations!

If your mother had an ounce of respect, well nuff said about that she doesn't.

The sooner you make a clean cut the sooner you can start to get over this.

Just read through as much of this thread as I can. I think you know in your heart what's for the best. Sorry but I feel your brother is rather toxic too. He's really not interested in you he's a pawn for your mother. IMO of course. It's just the way I'm seeing it? He sounds very selfish. They are playing with you and tbh if it were me I'd cut loose.

You sound very level headed and intelligent, well done you for surviving such a crap beginning.

I have panic disorder and can totally sympathise. You're convinced you're dying when in the throes. I'm on meds for mine. Glad to hear yours have gone though.

i dont know how to make the break, its not as easy as it was last time because he has my phone number, my address. i know that he is unstable and liable to come looking for me

i have fucked up. royally fucked up.

but even my dh said it sounded like he had got his act together, and i dont think that i could be blamed for thinking that - as far as i knew he had turned things around.

but dh said today - if this wasnt your brother, would you choose to see him or be in contact with him?

the answer is a resounding no.

i am not a snob and i try so hard not to judge, but he is too busy slagging his wife off to be bothered about his daughter, he is drinking a lot, which is really cosy because he is living with our mother, they can drink together until 3am and play computer games....seriously this is what they did last night and i think its just all warped, all so unhealthy and fucked up and i dont know now how to extract myself again.

i texted him today, just to see if he was ok,and he rang me, uninvited. its like he thinks we can just start again from where we broke off 12 years ago....and all he did was rant and rant and rant about his wife and his friend sleeping together, calling her a slag and a so on, and i was dumbstruck. i tried to give him some advice which he threw back at me, so i just shut up in the end.

we got talking about other things, thats when he started talking about the photos and our mother

i mentioned that i was going to go to his home town to collect some theatre tickets next week and he wanted to meet....i said no.

he isnt malicious, he really isnt, but he doesnt have much about him in the way of brains, probably not helped by pickling them in heroin, weed and alcohol for the past 15 years....

god. ive no idea how to end this. if i do it now it would seem horribly cruel, he is in a bad way over his wife.
and im not even sure that i want no contact at all, i just dont want to be pulled into his weirdness, a bit of polite conversation about work and kids occasionally i could have coped iwth, but he is so full on.

i had no idea,. i can honestly say that had i known i would have left it.

just got to work out what to do now.

I feel for you Really difficult situation especially as he has all your details. Can you at least start by changing your mobile phone number and telling him you've lost it? I'm usually all for very up front but as you say he sounds messed up? Still it's his life and you have to think of yours and your family. Your dh is right it's sometimes best to look outside of the situation and very telling that you wouldn't want him in your life were he not your brother. I'd open a new FB acc. for close friends/family and not tell him. you can put any name you like. If he says why aren't you on it just say you've started a new hobby or something? Keep the other one to check in now and again. And you can block him and your 'mother' from new one.

Hey :)

I posted a reply a few nights ago and it bloody ate it!! Grrrr

My opinion, fwiw is that you have now opened the box - and now is a good a time as any to deal with the issues. Don't just shove it all back in the box and lock it. Use counselling, read books, talk to us, find someone IRL you can really talk to and just work through it.

Ask your mother one last time who your father is.

Cut contact with them both. They have each other and neither of them are your responsibility - you have more than enough on your plate without taking their fucked up lives on as well.

You know what you need to do if your B becomes a pest.

Oh & by the way - you haven't fucked up. You made a decision based on what you thought to be the situation at the time and now you realise it's not what you thought it was. You are not bloody clairvoyant. Stop beating yourself up! & do not feel guilty about your brother - he needs to sort his own shit out!!

Either defriend them on facebook or set up another account.

Text him saying that you need some space & would appreciate not being contacted for now - you will be in touch when you are ready. I suspect you will get another 'k' message. After that just ignore him if he makes any attempt to contact you.

It's not actually that hard - you just need to do it.

one thing i dont think i had banked on is his incredible neediness. he acts and talks like a child.

ive just sent him a msg because he is currently publicly (very publicly) slating his wife, and of course while hiding behind a computer screen my mother is publicly backing him. stupid stupid woman - she should be pulling him to one side and telling him to grow up and think of his daughter.

every time we have contact i feel like this has been a huge error of judgement.
and he is coming across as a little unhinged.

i will continue with the counselling and i will ask my mother that question again (even though im pretty certain of the answer i will get)

but i need to really have a long hard look at what i am getting out of this. so far the answer is just a headache.

oh and i know you are right, i need to back right off, but i feel like i need to explain everything to him very gently, he is a great big bloody child, if i just take him off fb he will get upset.
i know. i know. i can hear myself.
ive just deleted the msg. he is not my responsibility to be saying anything to - ive got to resist the temptation.

the other problem i have is that he friended my son on fb and he will use him to try and get to me. i need to warn my boy of this and ask him to defriend him aswell.

give me a few days and ill get my act together.

im feeling a bit weak and daft right now, and i need to give myself a good talking to.