here we go. i knew it wouldnt take long....(long post!)

[ThatVikRinA22]

I have a very complex background, but to cut a long story short i have recently got in touch with my brother after about 12 years.

We had a very very bad upbringing. we were neglected and abused. i ended up in and out of care, he ended up homeless and on heroin.

i escaped our abusive parents at 15, married at 19, and have built a wonderful life for myself, with lovely DH and my two much loved children. I feel very guilty that i left my brother there, but i honestly thought he would be ok, they were very different with him while i was there. It seems when i left he got it, (then when he left, our mother got it)

My brother has only recently managed to turn his life around, but is doing very well, is off drugs, married, and has a child whom he appears to dote on. He admits he still has some issues around alcohol and cannabis.He has been nothing but honest with me.

we havent met up yet, as he is undergoing chemo treatment for hep c, but the plan is to meet up at some point. We do speak on the phone. I am being very careful, and am mindful of my job (i am a police officer)

Up until now, the subject of our "parents" hasnt really come up, though i am aware that our father (my step father to be precise) is dead and our mother now lives alone. My brother has chosen to stay in touch with her. I cut contact many years ago and am all the better for it - i did try for years to engage with her - but she is hard as nails, bitter, has a sense of entitlement that galls me and takes no responsibility for our past, and basically when i had contact with them both, i got very ill with panic attacks - when i cut contact they stopped. That says it all really.

My mother (and step thing) emigrated and never bothered to get in touch - i went on to move house and change my phone number.

i did find out when he (step thing) died, and my mother apparently then came back to live in the uk.

My brother says that she was very angry with me.

Anyway - i spoke recently to my brother who states that she is not averse to making contact with me. (ha ha ha fucking ha.)

he says she sends her best. (whatever the fuck that is)

he appears to want me to bury the hatchet, and appears to think i should be grateful that she wants some contact or something. he reckons he has dealt with his demons, and im very pleased for him, but the truth is that my life has been so much easier, calmer, nicer, without her in it. She will not tell me who my father is, and i cant forgive her for the things she put me through as a child.

I want a relationship with my brother. i want to meet his child and wife.

But now, with this rearing its head so quickly into our relationship - well i am a little spooked.
would you continue down this path?
would you continue to try and build some kind of relationship with my brother?
Would you give this woman a chance?
i dont want to end up feeling sorry for her, and i will, i always did, she is manipulative, and i have no doubt now, that she probably cuts a fairly pathetic figure - brother says she is an alcoholic.
but really - i feel like i got past all this and now.....i just dont need it. I have been so strong for so long, and i dont want that to waiver.

im sorry for the length of this post....and thanks if you got this far! i just want to hear what others think.
DH says i must do what i want, and truth is i would love to know who my father is, yet she always held this over me, and would never divulge even the smallest details, i dont even have a name., but i think she likes the sense of power and i dont want to give her that, i want to be free of how i felt all those years ago.

i guess my options are to back away completely from the whole lot of them.
to state clearly that i dont want contact with my mother
or to bite the bullet and allow contact with them all.

thoughts please....

What did you say in your message to him? You did the right thing deleting it. He isn't your responsiblity and you do have to resist the temptation. You have to detach. Honestly, I know it's easy for us to say and hard for you to do - but I just want you to stop putting yourself through this :( I know he's your brother - but you can't help him up, he can only drag you down :(

I don't think you are getting anything 'good' out of this at all, which is why I think you should cut contact with them both and just deal with your issues now you have opened the box, in the hope that you can reach a place where it's not something that upsets you now and not something that's just 'silenced' but still there as it was before (does that make sense?).

He is unhinged. She is unhinged. They are enabling each other.

Ask her again - as I said to you right at the beginning (or on another thread maybe?) I would use anything I could to get the answer, even stooping so low as to say you will consider contact if she gives you this answer. You can consider it (if she does) for a nano second then refuse it - you owe that woman nothing. Resolve to only ask her this one more time - do it in whatever way you think is the most likely to get an answer.

Vic my love. So the fuck what if he gets really upset?? It is not your problem. He isn't how he portrayed himself - if he was you wouldn't be in this mess. There is no way you can explain this to him in a way that will make him understand - he just doesn't have the ability to see where you are coming from. Anyway, it would be virtually impossible to put it in a way that wont upset him... because it is due to who he is/how he acts/what he does.

You could lie to him in another way - but what's the point? Just say you need space from it all.

You need to tell your DS, not ask him. Pull rank.

It's a lot to deal with on top of daily life - it's no wonder you feel a bit weak. Don't put yourself down by saying daft - it's not daft to want to mend old wounds and try to sort things out - it's your mother and your brother. It's incredibly sad that you can't have what you should be able to have with either of them.

You can do this though - you need to do this x (cut contact again)

Wise words from ChippingIn, I think.

Cheers chipping, sometimes I need someone to say it like it is,, and I am sadly in complete agreement.

My msg - ? He was slating his wife, I just asked if he really wanted to do this so publicly and said he needed to count to 10 and think of his little girl. Then I deleted it. It's not my problem. I can't save him, or his child. If I was at work I'd be filling in forms on this lot by now....and I'd certainly not be choosing to talk bollocks with them. Ds just said he will delete him off FB, I'm finding it harder than him, which is madness.

Right, I don't have to get involved in any more of his drama, I can send him a txt telling him I am taking him off my FB, and that I will txt him. Then I can choose how I manage contact with him from now on, much more. I'll do it when I've sent my mother a msg asking about my father. I feel better now, I have a plan. Off to bed, need some shut eye. Thank you again, I feel a bit more back in control, just have to follow my little action plan thru. I realise that I am doing this in part to myself, got to get a grip.

Well, hopefully now that you have A Plan, you can get some sleep.

You are in control, not them, just remember that.
x

VicarInaTutu, are you sure you want to read your Social Services files? You have done a fantastic job of turning your life around. Is dredging up the past really going to achieve anything? Also, counselling? I do not really see the point. You will probably never (nor should you) feel 'OK' about what happened to you. I think sometimes you just need to accept that the past happened, and get on with it [said by somebody with a truly horrific past].

As for your mother, I am afraid that I would not be inclined to be in contact with her. In fact, I would block her on Facebook.

As for your brother, he also needs to commended for turning his life around. I hope that you continue to build a relationship with him.

Good double-act, aren't they? He softens you up and, when she considers you've warmed to him again, she uses him as her go-between to announce that she'd like to 'speak' to you.

Of course, you know that any 'speech' you allow her to have with you will be sung to the old familiar tune which goes by the title of 'self-justification'. And, in that respect, your db hasn't fallen far from the tree, has he?

Like many addicts of long-standing, he'll have been through shedloads of rehab, psychiatrists, pyschotherapists, counsellers, etc and he'll have picked up more than a smattering of jargon along the way.

This may give him a veneer of credibility when he talks about being clean, having come to terms with his demons, the past being in the past, and the future being bright with rosy promise of an opium induced dream.

The reality is that any job he has will be short-lived and any relationships he has will end in tears as the women in his life morph from madonnas to whores in his mind.

And, of course, he'll continue to use in one form or other whether that is booze or Class B, and it won't be long before he's back on Class A because, given his personality, once an addict is always an addict.

As you've said, if this was work the forms would have been filled, the referrals made, you'd be on to the next case with barely a backward glance.

You certainly wouldn't be taking your work home with you and, given 'the job', you can't afford to mix with certain of your family members who are more trouble than they're worth.

By default and of necessity, you have reached your own accomodation with your disadvantaged start in life. For many of us, there's no such thing as a level playing field but we can use the steamroller of insight that counselling provides to flatten any bumps from the past that may cause us to trip up in the present and the future.

You're more than halfway to resolving and remedying the cause of your lack of self-esteem and self-worth, and I suggest that this is an opportune moment to cut contact with your db and defer sending 'the missive' until you have completed your current counselling sessions.

I'm giving some consideration to recommending a specific retreat for you but, in the meantime, you may find this page informative in respect of what you can expect on a Quaker retreat:

www.woodbrooke.org.uk/pages/what-is-a-quaker-retreat.html

I think that perhaps simply reading the words will have resonance for you and will be the equivalent of a long cool drink of water for that thirsty part your soul, for what want of a better term, that has been trying so hard for so long to tell you what you need to hear in order to validate yourself.

And, of course, he'll continue to use in one form or other whether that is booze or Class B, and it won't be long before he's back on Class A because, given his personality, once an addict is always an addict.

That is very, very unfair. Lots of people manage to turn their lives around after an addiction problem.

Your post has made me

Lots of people do manage to turn their lives around after addictions and after all sorts of negative experiences, traumas, and problems have conflicted them, Marie.

Given Vic's younger years, it could be said that she is a shining example a case in point as she certainly turned her life around once she broke free of her toxic family.

However, I have made my somewhat spurious assessment of her db's personality purely on the basis of information volunteered here by Vic and, in this respect I stand by my opinion that her db is highly unlikely to change his ways and that he will replace any habit he breaks with another.

In fact, if you read the information available you will see evidence that this has come to pass and that, because of his personality, the saying 'once an addict always an addict', sadly, does hold true for him.

I note that you 'do not see the point' of counselling. I could take the view that this is 'very, very unfair' of you as many derive considerable benefits from talking therapies and it has been proved to be a literal life-saver for some.

izzywhizzysmincepies, you clearly know nothing about addiction. I suggest you shut up.

Actually most "ex" addicts I know would agree that "once and addict always an addict" as unlike those of us who haven't been addicted, they always have the temptation to fall back into addiction. Actually the more they totally break with the past, including the situations they lived in, the people they mixed with, and anything that pushed them to seek solace in the substance/thing they are addicted to, then it becomes easier to resist. But it is a daily struggle.

Vicar - I'm running late for work but just wanted to quickly say a couple of things.

I know from having an abusive boyfriend how you can get caught in a cycle of telling yourself you shouldn't have to withdraw from your life (Facebook etc, in my case changing my mobile number) because you haven't done anything wrong, and why should you suffer? In fact, you are where you are, and once you've done it you will feel much better.

I also feel that your mother wants you to tell her that you're fine, and - well, she doesn't want your forgiveness, exactly, because that would involve owning up to her responsibility. Rather, she wants you to say it doesn't matter, and that you're fine with a lovely life and there's nothing she could have done to stop your stepF anyway. Well, fuck that, she was the adult and you don't have to lie to her to make her feel better about herself.

We all want maternal approval (even those of us with normal relationships with our mothers). But you have to accept she is a deeply flawed human being with her own agenda, and she doesn't get to judge you or approve / disapprove of you. She's not fit to be a judge of anything.

Re. counselling - I think sometimes it is good to see more than one but don't give up too easily. I think sometimes it can be more like spring cleaning, where things look worse before they look better..

You sound much stronger hope it goes well for you.

marie - while i would normally agree with you, i think if you were to read the entire thread, you would see that izzy and others are, where my brother is concerned, absolutely right.

i could tell that you had come to the thread late, and havent read the back story (which i dont blame you - its a l-o-n-g story.)

in a nutshell by DB while he maintains he is off heroin, he is still openly a heavy user of cannabis and an alcoholic, who is now living with my mother, another alcoholic.
i got in touch with my DB because on paper, it looked as though he had turned his life around - sadly this has not been the case. He comes across as unhinged, confused and needy, and is still, as he openly admits to me, very much an addict. He and his wife have split and all they care about is themselves, they have a baby who was born at 27 weeks mixed up in all of this and they care not a jot about her - db wife has stated that she will willingly give my DB custody - a thought i find startling. he cannot look after himself, let alone a child with medical needs and health issues, that they no doubt have caused due to their heavy heroin addiction during pregnancy. These are sadly just the facts. i would have loved to have found that he had turned his life around, i would have loved nothing more, and i was willing to believe that he had. The more contact i have had the clearer it is that its just not the case.

i am going to continue counselling because i feel it is of benefit to me.

thank you again to those voices of reason on this thread, because reason is what i need to hear right now, i need to look after myself, my needs and my own family.

this has just been all wrong from the start.

You've done exceptionally well in compartmentalising your early experiences and not allowing them to unduly negatively impact on you, Vic, and this ability will stand you in good stead in 'the job'.

I suspect that the only reason you've been sandbagged, as it were, by the past is that you are now working in an environment where your work, your abilities, and your personality and, by defintion, 'you', are subject to regular review and appraisal and this has triggered unresolved feelings of 'not being good enough' that were engendered in you when you were a child.

I've got no doubt that, although they may be challenging on occasion, you will gain immense benefits from your counselling sessions which is why I've suggested that you defer making any further decisions about your relatives until you've completed the course.

Addictive personality disorder is well documented; each individual case is unique but it can take a great of talking therapy, sometimes complemented by ADs, methadone and drugs such as Antabuse, until we can be sure that any optimism about the prospect of recovery is not misplaced.

That's not to say we should err towards pessimism with regard to addictive or any other disorders because I firmly believe that miracles happen, and that they happen with far more frequency than we may generally be led to believe.

thanks izzy for the retreat page - reading with interest. (doubt i could do a totally silent retreat but i can see that there are options!)

you are right , there are some wonderful success stories - and i meet people in my work all the time who have overcome addictions as well as those who continue to be in the grip of theirs, and commit criminal acts to fund them. I am always extremely tolerant and treat people as i would wish to be treated, i do not look down on anyone who has fallen on hard times.
i have every sympathy for those people, but i cannot allow myself to be pulled backwards just because i feel sympathy for my brother, and even to some extent, my mother.

and just because i feel sympathy doesnt make it right that i should make myself uncomfortable in continuing a relationship that is doing me no favours.

i can't speak freely to him. he talks over me, and shouts me down when i try to express an opinion or give advice, and i back down, just like i always did.

ultimately, he will drain me. i am fed up of thinking about it all, and we havent even met yet. his expectations are unrealistic.

Your insights izzy have really helped me and given me some focus - i suspect that you are right about the timing, and that my job is shining a spot light on me as a person, the timing of this is no accident, but the time has come to sort myself out, to use the counselling wisely and to accept that i am ok, to heal myself and trust myself and that i have choices, and its ok to exercise them.

again to everyone else, thank you, most of you echo the conclusions which i am already coming to.

ok, i am about to defriend him on fb.

do i just do it or do i try to explain to him first?

he is ranting again and i just cant watch - its like watching a car crash, and i just think about his poor daughter and im going to end up saying something and i cannot get invested in this stupidity.

so, do i just do it? or tell him? or put a generic fb status saying im culling....

enough is enough, that much i do know.

What would you do if he wasn't related to you?

I have no doubt that you would simply 'just do it' without preamble, explanation, or post-mortem.

Just do it. He sounds such hard work I'm exhausted thinking about him.

its done. ive done it. ive taken him off my friends list, no more do i have to see his or my mothers comments.

i literally breathed a huge sigh of relief.

now ive just got to brace myself, there wil be an inquest. im not sure if i should have texted him to say i was doing it/have done it?

i realise that what i was doing by not removing him was a bit like watching a car crash, in slow motion.

or picking at a scab.

painful but hard to stop looking.

Well done. Just say that seeing the comments upset you and you don't need the stress. Anyway he may not notice he's so wrapped up in himself?

I think he will notice. I can see this may bring things to a head, he will accuse me of being underhand or something similar. He claims to be big on honesty. I feel like I should tell him that I've defended him...on FB, not RL or something.... (And hope he just goes away.)

Do what feels best.

I'm afraid your db is car crash tv. You don't even need to see the bus coming down the highway to know it's going to end in disaster.

I'm sure you have no problem distinguishing fact from fiction when interacting with those you meet in the course of your work and in your family/social life, and you should similarly apply your faculties to what your db tells you and others and reserve judgement until his statements are verified.

His dd's plight is emotive, but hopefully you can be reasonably assured that she is the subject of attention from paediatricians, social services, and other agencies.

BTW, no retreat is ever totally silent as you'll always hear your own voice loud and clear.

Although as I've said, I avail myself of whatever spirtual direction may be on offer, I prefer to structure my retreats to primarily commune with myself but it's commonplace for me to find that what I want is not always what I need.

When in doubt, do nowt. No doubt he'll be in touch with you one way or another when you can respond according to how you see fit at the time.

As a 'holding position', I would suggest you use the demands of work made by the upcoming festive season to explain that you simply do not have time to maintain contact but that, time permitting, you'll catch up with him at some point in the New Year subject to whatever training courses etc you are required to attend.

Unfortunately, he doesn't trade in the currency of reality and all you can do is keep repeating the same message until he absorbs it.