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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please Help-- Advice needed re Emotional Affair is he seeing her i am sooo confused !!!!

215 replies

krissydw1 · 20/04/2011 23:00

Sorry for all if this message is long I just dont know what to think or believe anymore and need some perspective on the situation

My ex partner and father of my twins left me a week a go saying he didnt love me anymore etc . We have had problems and have broken up four previous times he always did the leaving saying he was unhappy with his life didnt want to be with me because i irritate him drink wine in the evenings etc he has hit me several times and i begged him back. All the other times he has returned saying he still loves me but later in a row says he wishes he was not with me then the next day he loves me so have been thinking he is happy but he isnt.

Anyways recently we set up a business started talking about a futire doing it together etc i asked him if he loved me and wanted to be with me he said he did. This same night he came home drunk and we had a massive row. I logged in to his fb and found out he was saying to a woman he works with he does not want to be with me he hates me and wants to leave but cant leave his kids and dreams about being with her. The next day i asked him of he loved me and to cut a long story short said yes. I did not mention that i know

Afew days later i was away and we spoke on the phone and textes he told me he loves me etc. Later that evening i loged on again to his fb bot expecting to find anything as i assumed the later contact was just venting after our row. What i found made me sick to my stomach messages to this woman saying he had to delete her coments cos i was asking questions about her that he hates me thinks about her everyday can even smell her. She responded with similar things gonna go to bed and dream about you etc and i dont want you to arguee with HER so will only text you on the mobile.

Two days later i went home and asked him if there was anything going on with her as have been asking for about a month before even finding anything because i had a feeling he said he loves me nothing going on etc. I could not let it go cos i know what i had read but did not want him to know that i had been snooping. Anyways he kept denying anything was going on. THE next day he was going on a works do with her and i kept asking him not to go because i thought something was going on he left me that day saying we just dont work etc maybe we dont but it seems that he was still prepared to work at it before he said we have just come to the end of the road etc. During the last three days leading up to this his phone had been stuck to him which it usualy isnt.

a WEEK LATER HE CAME OVER AND I GOT HIS PHONE LOADS OF TEXTS BETWEEN THEM HE SAID I LOVE YOU TO BABE WISH YOU WERE HERE SO I COULD TOUCH YOU THE OTHERS I DID NOT TAKE IT WAS IN SHOCK.

So i then went and confronted him i said why didnt you tell me there was something going on between you and her he went silent had a go at me for looking at his phone and said we are not together anymore so its nothing to do with you i asked to know what is going on and he said its not what i think he just felt sorry for her and after they went out for a drink he realises she is to needy for him that they are not together he does not want nothing to do with a married woman but at the same time says he left when he did cos he didnt want to lie but was gonna leave anyways. He was only telling her what she wanted to hear. I keep asking if he is with her and he keeps saying no but its nothing to do with me!!!!!!!! well maybe its not now but it kinda is cos they were carying on when we were together!!!!!

I just dont know what to think sorry for the long message

OP posts:
breakaway · 05/05/2011 14:22

hi, I also have been and am still going through something similar. two years ago my H embarked on an EA, just when I needed him at that time in my life, he said the same old shit, like he felt rejected by me, didnt know what he wanted, whilst all the time dangling me on a string. I got pregnant and we decided to try again, I had a very stressful pregnancy because of all that had happened.
then 1 month aago I opened his phone bill to discover he had been texting the same woman for two weeks obsessively, they didnt meet up, but this was the affair that caused me so much pain, and he thought it okay to contact her again. I now need to grow a pair and learn to live without him, it is hard after 20 years, but I will do it as I need to get my self respect back.
I only wish I had shut the door in his face back then but I didnt so now I have to pay the price for that. once the trust is gone its gone and some men never learn or even know they r wrong. take control and leave him be, at least for now, believe me he will sooon be begging you back. thats when you have to be really strong, only wish I had been

krissydw1 · 05/05/2011 20:52

Hi Breakway thanks for your message at least you are being strong and now that you need to get back your self respect thats something. Its hard to believe isnt it i still deny it even though i read it cos he told me its nothing!!!!

I have not got an itemised phone bill as yet he told me he was not texting her and i believed it maybe i should get one would it change anything though would probably just make me more obsessed !!!!!!

Did you H fuck you over mentaly as well or was abusive ?? what is your situation now its so hard isnt it and i still have not grown a set i cant seem to move on just feel like a fucking zombie he keeps telling me it over cos of the flaws with me and our relationship and myself esteem is so low that i keep listening to that cant sleep cant eat etc.

Made the step to come stay with my parents for a while which is weird but really need help with the kids as am not coping overly well at the moment.
Never really have well i have but each time he has left me i fall appart again!!!!!!!!

How someone can be told what he has told me and still believe it and want him is beyond me i dont even understand myself. I guess you just get used to how things are and having children was a big commitment to me i did not make the decision lightly and there was me thinking all was happy and his mind he wishes he never met me hates his life he used to tell me that frequently

Breakaway you seem to be being very strong so keep your chin up 20 years is a long time you sure are stronger than me
xxxxx love to you all and thanks so much wised up woman and all the other wonderful ladies who have taken the time to try to help its appreciated greatly xxxx

OP posts:
krissydw1 · 05/05/2011 21:01

Hi Jess Thanks so much for your message sorry i did not see it before and many thanks for your kind words your words mean a lot actualy sometimes its hard to understand unless you have lived with such a person when you are so under the thumb. A massive argument happened with us i asked him if he wanted this or that for dinner and kept asking as he was in pain with a bad back and knew he didnt want to put me out so i asked are you sure a few times. He then went mental telling me to fuck off get the fuck out of his sight i am not normal cos a normal person would not keep asking. This was mothers day btw and i was trying to help!!!!!! maybe i a normal person as i apparently am not would not be such an insensitive wanker i dont know.

Anything i did could errupt into a massive row he would shout scream get in my face jump up and down etc in rages while i would try and be rational and then still get the blame for causing a situation in the end and even now i still think everything is my fault he always told me how miserable he was all the time si i have been thinking that was my fault cos i could not make him happy then of course tried even harder and became more pathetic

Maybe he is happy without me texting this married woman she makes him happy apparently gives him some attention i really think they fell in love from the messages between them but of course he wont tell me that !!!!!!

Thanks again for yout insight Jess

OP posts:
JessinAvalon · 05/05/2011 22:33

Hi Krissy
First of all, him and this woman are not in love. I would money on it. He might think he is but how long until he starts shouting and screaming at her?

Secondly, nothing you did was "wrong". With these men, they control us by making sure that our self esteem is at rock bottom. Then they keep us dangling by constantly leaving us or chatting to other women. What you describe is exactly what happened to me.

I would ask a question like "what would you like for tea?" and mine would start shouting and screaming and punching walls. I got used to it. The first time it happens, it's really shocking. The second time, shocking again. The third time you think "here we go again" and you start getting used to it.

It's not normal! Normal men don't treat women like that.

I heard my ex on the phone to his mum once. She asked him something like "what do you want for tea?" and he started ranting down the phone at her. So they don't treat us like this - they'll treat lots of people in the same way. I have a friend who works with my ex and she said he's not well liked at all. He's rude and arrogant and shouts at people.

The thing is, they tell us that it's just us who make them feel bad; that they get angry because we make them angry etc etc. But it's rubbish. It's their way of making us think that it's all our fault.

I ended up in counselling after I split with mine and my counsellor really helped me to see how low my self esteem was. So when mine started texting someone else and occasionally "by mistake" sent me the texts meant for this girl he worked with, I of course got jealous and upset. I would question him about her and then he would get angry. And would promise not to do it again and then would do it again and I would upset and question and on and on and on it goes.

I don't know if anyone has recommended Patricia Evans book "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" to you but I would strongly recommend that you read it. I was quite shocked when I read it because my whole relationship was in there.

The fact that he hit you as well is really bad. Just imagine what you would say to a friend who came to you and described to you what you've posted above. You'd be horrified. But these guys make us normalise their behaviour, and they make us feel like it's our fault, that we drive them to it. It's not true at all. No one makes another person hit them or shout at them. But they manage to grind our self esteem down so low that we believe all the rubbish that they tell us.

I consider it being like in a cult. We are brainwashed whilst we are with them. It was hard getting away from mine because I had tried so hard with him, unbelievably hard. I'd supported him through the first stages of him getting psychiatric help. The irony is that I was the one who ended up getting counselling!

But.....kicking my ex out was the best thing that I ever did. I felt pretty elated at first because I'd done something quite powerful for a change. Then I felt low again. But nearly 2 years on, I only wish that I'd got out sooner and I know that kicking him out was the best present I could have ever have given myself. I felt 100% saner now than I do when I was with him.

When I read your OP I remembered what it was like to be in your position and I thanked the universe that I managed to get out. It takes a strong woman to put up with all this sh*t and to get out so you must be one strong and courageous woman, even though I know you won't necessarily feel like it now.

I have a friend who works with victims of domestic abuse and she says that these women all say they are weak but in fact they are strong to have survived an abusive and controlling relationship often for many years.

Sorry for the long message. I've been where you are now and it upsets me to see someone else in the same situation so I hope that something I have said helps, even if it's in a small way.

Sending you lots of good vibes!

JessinAvalon · 05/05/2011 22:41

I think my ex had this (in fact I was warned by a mental health social worker that he did) but I didn't listen. Anyway, your ex might not have a fully blown PD but you might recognise some of this behaviour.

narcissisticpersonalitydisorder.yolasite.com/

narcissisticpersonalitydisorder.yolasite.com/when-your-perfect-partner-goes-perfectly-wrong.php

Hope you can read this one. This is the one that made me see clearly. I printed it out and carried it with me for when I was tempted to call. And I didn't. Ever!

So you're in love with a narcissist?

krissydw1 · 05/05/2011 22:46

yeah thanks Jess just to let you know he has hot me more than once for one reason or another and i have always blocked it out even the other day during a row he pushed me and blamed me for making him mad kicking things etc. He has spat in my face more than once and hit me many times always during a row never when everything is chilled he is the lovely person so long as i dont antagonise him etc if i ever stand up for myself it gets worse half the time when he is drunk. Once he gave me a couple of days off from the kids i decided to have the day in bed as was knackard and he had a go at me for that saying i as lazy not the woman h thought i was i should be out living my life not staying in bed so on and so on but in between that its good and he is a lovely caring guy who gets on with everyone the women at work love him thay were really sad to see him leave so maybe it is just me that rubs him up the wrong way that is possible right ?

OP posts:
JessinAvalon · 05/05/2011 22:56

No, he is not a lovely caring guy! He is the complete opposite of a lovely, caring guy.

Lovely caring guys do not hit women or spit in their faces. I am horrified that he has done all this to you.

What would these women at work say if they knew he was coming home and raging and spitting at you and pushing you around? They'd think he was really lovely then, I'm sure.

My ex did this too. Of course everyone else thinks he's great. And who is telling you that everyone else thinks he's great? Him of course! And you believe him because we don't lie like they do so it doesn't even cross our minds that they are lying.

I'll bet that his workmates, men and women think he's an arrogant tosser.

He is an abusive man. He has verbally and physically abused you. He is constantly telling you what you should think and feel and should be doing with your life.

Well, he should be looking at his life. He should stop lying, hitting people, spitting in their faces, getting angry over someone just wanting to cook him tea, and emotionally cheating with another woman.

What would you think if one of your closest friends came to you and said that she was with a guy who could be nice sometimes but sometimes he hits and spits at her and shouts at her just because she asked if she could cook him some tea because he had a bad back?

Please read this book and read some of the links I've posted above. You need to get away from this abuser.

www.amazon.co.uk/Verbally-Abusive-Relationship-Recognize-Respond/dp/1558505822

JessinAvalon · 05/05/2011 23:02

Sorry if all that sounded aggressive....it just makes me so angry to read how these guys treat women and how we put up with it because we are nice. It just doesn't occur to us that someone else can be so cruel so we make excuses for them.

As I said above, I see kicking my ex out as one of the best presents I ever gave to myself. I even went on Radio 5 last year to talk about it.

This man is worth nothing. Unfortunately he has made you feel as if you worth nothing and that he is brilliant.

Ok...he can be nice occasionally. But they seem nicer than they actually are when they are nice to us because most of the time they are being rude, angry and abusive.

And, as a previous (lovely) boyfriend said: I'm sure Hitler could be nice occasionally but that doesn't mean that you'd want to hang out with him.

If I could give you (some more!) advice now, it would be to hole yourself up at your parents, resist the urge to call your ex or text (you will be glad of this later), and read and read and read about abusive relationships. Perhaps get some counselling through your GP surgery. You may have to wait a few weeks but put yourself down on the list. It'll be worth the wait.

And be kind to yourself. You've had a rough time. But things will get easier, I promise.

krissydw1 · 05/05/2011 23:28

thanks Jesss
I will read the links as you say he says everyone loves him but they prob dont well god knows what he has told them about me while i have ben stuck at home in my hole looking after the twins .... i know they love him at work though from all of the messages they put on his fb and the cards they have sent him and of course all of the txexts and fb messages between him and this woman he works with she is clearly in fucking love with him but nobody really knows do they what its like not unless you are in it xxxx thanks ladies for your kind words

OP posts:
breakaway · 06/05/2011 09:58

I am starting to realise how much I have been controlled over the years, My H has been physically and mentally abusive, he has put me through a lot over the years and I kept taking him back. for a few years he managed to control his temper, but its still there. only yesterday, because I told him i on't trust him anymore and we have no future, he sent me some disgustingly abusive txts, like if you were a man i'd stamp on your head and watch you bleed. this is because he cannot control my morals and that he has caused our marriage problems. men like this cannot change, because they don't think they are wrong. I was like you when he left me for ow, I was a wreck, almost suicidal, but he made me believe It was my fault.
It has taken me a long time to realise I have to start listening to myself and beiing me again. don't get me wrong mostly he's great but if things don't go his way then he will put himself first emotionally, because if he was to admit he has the problems, it would break him. If men can cheat they will cheat and by taking him back he learn't nothing, except for this woman is tolerant so i'll behave how I like.
I will have to go through some rough times yet, but I deserve respect and honesty as we all do.
I hope you find the strength to do this, he doesn't deserve you and bullies need to be stood up to. Try and get strength from your children they will always be there, he might not.
think of the person you were before you met him, if you miss that person then put yourself first and get her back, shes still there.

HerHissyness · 06/05/2011 11:01

Sorry you have been through this too breakaway. Have you read the book Why Does He Do That? It really is very good, explains pretty much all of it.

Abusers are adored by their peers mostly, their image is very important to them, they will say glowing things about you mostly, but treat you like shit so when you are ambivalent to them it makes YOU look ungrateful and you lose any potential support from them, where as he gains more kudos.

Being nice is KEY to abusers, if they were horrid all the time, they would get dumped. So the Circle of Abuse explains the cycle of behaviour that goes on to keep their victims hooked. Cycle of Abuse

krissydw1 · 06/05/2011 11:25

The moral thing is interesting so many times when i do not sucum to his morals such as that texting this woman while being with me is cheating but he wont admit this as HE WAS NOT WITH ME IIN HIS HEAD or whatever he makes me believe he has done nothing wrong

Have read a lot of the narcasist stuff and abuse stuff.....the problem is this relationship is not the classic abuse patter

from what i have read the abuser will beat the woman then stop her leaving

In my case after the first time he beat me up bably in a drunken haze he left ME

said he did not want to beat the mother of his kids I ASKED HIM BACK each subsequent time he has hit me or spent money on poker HE has decided to leave me therefore i have kept him trapped in the relationship caqusing him to be abusive towards me

if he is a narcasist is it harder to move on than normal relationships cos you dont know where you stand and are soooooo fucking confused

OP posts:
amberlight · 06/05/2011 13:06

No-one 'causes' someone to hit them.

Can you imagine him hitting the bus driver on the way into work or otherwise being abusive to them?
What about his boss?
Does he go into shops and hit the staff there?

Well, why not? If he's so out of control that other people can 'make' him hit them and be abusive to them, why is it only you that he's doing it to? Like hell is it you that's causing this. This is a choice by him.

Does he hit you in front of other people? Why not, if he's out of control and you're the one causing it?

Does he hit you totally randomly like a toddler lashing out in a temper, or is it controlled? How does he manage that degree of control if he's being forced into it by you?

Alas, telling a partner that they 'caused' abusive behaviour is one of the oldest lies in the book. Don't believe a word of it.

HerHissyness · 06/05/2011 13:34

You do know that men who abuse don't always hit.

TBH, in some ways my X would have been easier to leave if he HAD hit me more. Classic Abuse has many guises. Your H is abusing you mentally, gaslighting, control, not wanting you to do things, restricting your movement, and he is cheating on you.

Be honest with yourself!

Does he make you happy - NO
Does he put you and his DC first - NO
Is he faithful - NO
Is he actually living with you/wanting to be with you - NO

You deserve so much better than someone like this.

Read Lundy Bancroft's book for goodness sake, please see who you are with!

breakaway · 06/05/2011 13:34

I know now that they can and do control if they want to. I told H three years ago that if he so much as hurt a hair on my head, then he was out.
he did stop even in blazing rows, where before he claimed he just lost it.
didnt stop him from punching a wall, breaking my phone and jewellry and being verballly abusive. they know exactly what they are doing. he has even admitted to me that he hates being out of control.
well i'm not going to be anybodys stepford wife.
not all men behave like this i'm sure. its just when your in it you get so used to it being the norm. and you make excuses for them. my h has a poor rellationship with his mother, and I used to feel sorry for him, now i'm like grow up you twat.

amberlight · 06/05/2011 13:41

yup, abuse can take just about any form, e.g. sexual, spiritual, financial, emotional, psychological. Pushing, shoving, withholding things you need, criticising your every word and phrase, e.g. you say "Isn't it a lovely day today" and you get a response like "who made you the weather forecaster" or "do you think I'm so stupid that I can't see that for myself" or "Typical that you have enough time to stare at the * weather instead of ironing my shirts/cooking my tea" etc etc. Absolutely anything said or done, or not said or not done, can be turned into a weapon.

HerHissyness · 06/05/2011 13:44

he's whittled you down to such a low ebb that he doesn't have to physically lock you up to stop you leaving.

His damage to your self esteem before hand, convincing you that you can't be without him does that all by itself now.

Why do you think you have to put up with this? who taught you that you have to stick with this, regardless of what he does to you?

krissydw1 · 06/05/2011 14:05

No one has taught me this people have been telling me to leave but i didnt want to so kept giving it another go each time he would tell me we can only give it a go if i dont drink then he would come home pissed or he has decided i can have a glass of wine this day if he does....then its we dont work cos i am so anoying irritate him...i would always say well we can only give it ago if you stop being so agrresive towards me that would go out the window and i would say youve laid a finger on me again and he would just say its cos i irritate him so much i drive him mad he needs a real woman etc the list goes on and on all said in rages but hey in the end i just let it happen and brushed it off.

Ironicly i never put up with any shit like this from ANY other relationship at all NEVER before i got with him if you told me i would be in the place now i would have never believed you not for a minute

The weirdest thing about all this is whatever he would do like hit me etc he would leave me not ME LEAVE him thats not the norm in these situations is it i thought the abusive partner always begged the girl to stay but in this case he has done the gallant thing but leaving me as he does not want to treat me like shit anymore.

I know i should be glad but am basicly an empty shell at the minute i dont know if thats self essteem or what but i dont know what i want where i want to be its pathetic i know but its like to dont even exist without him

Oh and apparently the issue must be ME being not normal because he has never found that anyone else pisses him off so much just me

OP posts:
krissydw1 · 06/05/2011 15:06

Well he just rang me to see how i am as i have left the flat to come to my mums which is weird and he is staying at the flat part of me really misses being there cos it was my home but when i am there i have no help with the twins or any freedom whatsover so am staying here and letting him stay there i told him i was really depressed and missed him loads and he was like i wish you wouldnt you are ruining you life i asked him if he missed me and he was like not like that no my life was always stressful when i was with you and no i dont feel the same way about you and am happier now i am not with you.............how can he feel like that after five years and after I DID everything to make HIM happy he seems to think that living with him was totaly peaceful and calm and he never did anything wrong I DONT FUCKING GET IT NO OWNERSHIP OF HIS BEHAVIOUR OR HOW IT MAY HAVE MADE ME FEEL AT ALL AM SO FRUSTRATED NOW

OP posts:
krissydw1 · 06/05/2011 16:06

even though i can recognise how shit things have been hearing him say i dont feel the same about you is hard so hard have put so much into him i want him to miss me a realise what he has lost but he probably never will cos all i do is wind him up........ladies i have done fucking everything for this man cooked cleaned been there to hear his shit wait on him hand and foot help him start businesses pay the rent when he spent it on poker raised the kids never moaned or asked for anything supported his every whim....

Its only been for weeks but am not getting better yet i have never been like this before maybe its because have never been with an abusive guy before i feel like the only weak person who has turned into this shell

OP posts:
JessinAvalon · 06/05/2011 19:11

They don't need to lock you up to keep you. They manage to grind your self esteem down so low that you think you deserve the treatment they dish out. The dynamic you describe of him leaving -to appear "gallant" (purlease)-is exactly what happened with me and my ex.

What a good guy-to hit you and then leave because he felt 'guilty'. He gambled on appearing like a good guy and that you would forgive him.

I did this until one day I realised that my ex was never going to change and that he would never stop playing the game. I decided to step off the merry go round and surprise, surprise he tried to contact me after a row for probably for the first time ever.

He knows you'll come crawling back each time so he doesn't need to contact you. And how good does it make him feel to hit you then have you coming back to beg for another chance? He's got you wrapped you around his little finger. He doesn't need to try.

Ironically he'll probably respect you more if you tell him to go to hell. Which is what I think you should next time he gets in touch.

HerHissyness · 06/05/2011 19:41

Love, you can't MAKE HIM happy. this is classic abusive territory.

he decides if you can have a glass of wine??? WTF? Shock

I think I recall a real woman comment somewhere in my past with X too. WTF are you then? chopped liver? Textbook abuser stuff.

For whatever reason he got something out of controlling you, having you run around doing his bidding but it's due to his insecurities, not your inadequacies. Actually it highlights how inadequate HE was to have to do so much to clip your wings as it were.

You met, lots of attraction, fast to heat up, swept you off your feet, attentive, into you. then bit by bit the control starts, the tweaks here, the adjustments there, the Hmm looks, sulking, moaning or worse. The more you tried to make him happy, to please him, to be good, worthy of his mighty cock, (sorry to be crass, but he has to be good at something for you to put up with all that) the more aloof he got, the more time you spent chasing the end of his happiness rainbow. but there IS no end to the rainbow, you know that don't you?

There is a saying that gets bandied about which illustrates what happened to you. If you put a frog into boiling water it will hop out. If you put a frog into cold water and heat it up, the frog will stay in and eventually boil to death.

Take some time off. Don't speak to him at all. you need a rest, a breather and you need to try to process what you have been through. It is a good thing he has gone, but you are suffering withdrawal, naturally, he conditioned you to be practically inert without him.

HerHissyness · 06/05/2011 19:42

Please don't beat yourself up, I know we all do that, but this truly is not about you at all, he'd do it to everyone. It can't be your fault, not ever.

Concentrate on you, on your DC, and be kind to yourself. Remember we are always here, come rant/vent/cry on us?

krissydw1 · 06/05/2011 23:11

Thanks again ladies i know youo are all right al right but i have just never felt this empty and numb and for that reson have thought about ending it all more times than i care to adit logic says i cant and would not do that to my babies but part of me just wants to end my life and all this pain thanks girls you are realy making sense to me thankyou

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 06/05/2011 23:51

All this pain is down to him. Not you. Let him and it go and you will feel better. You have been through hell with him, and it is still so very early.

Please just be kind to yourself, be strong for your babies and keep posting. I promise you that soon you will start to breathe on your own, and you will go on, and then you will see how far down he pushed you.