dh and his best friends girlfriend - what shall I do?

[SJ32]

Hi, I think this is going to be a long one but I would really appreciate some advice, if anyone makes it that far!

dh and I have been together for 11 years, married for 6. We have 2 dcs, one pre-school and one school age. He has a best friend who he went to school with who we often hang out with, along with other mutual friends. This guy is also a v close friend of mine.

He got this new girlfriend a couple of years ago. She is a nice girl I think but kind of closed off and hard to get to know. She also acted in a weird, controlling and borderline abusive way to her partner, so for a long time my dh hated her, no-one else was massively keen either but we all tried to make an effort. ((For easiness' sake I'm gonna call dh's best friend C and his gf R)

Anyway, fast forward a bit and dh and her started to become friendlier. So friendly in fact that it seems people have begun to talk. The first I knew of it all was when dh told me (after I overheard a conversation between him and his best friend)that another friend, V had seen them kissing at a party in October, I must add that I was also at this party and saw nothing untoward. It turns out that it wasn't kissing, just possibly inappropriately intimate body-language.

So C has started to get the hump at the way dh and R have been behaving. They do stand and drink together and often will go on somewhere else alone after others have gone home. I'm not usually there as am looking after the dcs at home, dh goes out most friday nights til about 2-3am, nearly always with her. I know C feels uncomfortable and excluded but he hasn't talked to me about it.

dh says that C is being paranoid and unreasonable, and that there is nothing going on but that he likes R as a friend does not want to stop hanging out with her. I know they email eachother regularly while they're at work, and he texted her at like, 7.30 on Christmas morning, while the kids were in our room opening their presents (nice ). I actually read the message later that day and it was all rather innocuous but still, 7.30 on Christmas morning!?!

Last week dh told me he was meeting R for a drink after work to talk about the situation with C. I wasn't keen tbh but he was obviously going to go anyway. He was gone about 3 hours, I don't know if C knows they met up.

Anyway, I have been feeling uneasy about this for a while and we have had a few arguments about it. One one occasion I asked how he would feel if I was out drinking all the time with another bloke and he said 'I'd ask myself why you wanted to spend so much time with someone else rather than with me' like implying it was my fault for being a crappy wife or something.

I asked him if he fancied her and he said no but he understands her and likes her a lot. Last night though I am sorry to say I looked at his phone while he was asleep. (I know, I know ). I found an email conversation between them from yesterday where he says 'R - you're in my head a bit, I'm sorry it's not your fault. I know I'm being a twat. Maybe it's best if I stop coming out. If you don't know what I'm talking about then that's for the best'

She then replies something about them meeting up to 'talk' and they vaguely arrange to meet up this weekend. He also says something like 'I care about you and want to keep talking to you and listening to you' whatever that means.

So, it would appear that C was right, their friendship is crossing a line. What do i do about it though, I know it was wrong to look at his phone and he'll probably be really angry. I guess this is why you shouldn't look, even if you find something you can't legitimately say anything!

Also, I can't help feeling slightly responsible as over the last year dh told me a couple of times he wasn't happy with the way our relationship had become kind of functional, with no passion or excitement. He says I don't consider him, and it's true that I probably don't prioritise our relationship like I should, the dcs have always come first I guess.

I know this whole thing sounds really teenage but I promise it's genuine, and I am actually quite a mature 32 year old! dh and i are the first of our peer group to get married and have dcs, everyone else still goes out getting pissed and carrying on like we all did 10 years ago.

I think I'll wait and see what happens this weekend, I don't feel comfortable with them meeting up to discuss how she's 'in his head a bit'. Tbh that sounds like playing with fire! If he does meet her he might lie about it anyway and say he's meeting someone else. Or should I confess to looking and ask him about it? I mean, he hasn't actually done anything with her yet, is it acceptable to have crushes and feelings as long as you don't act on them?

Some perspective would be really helpful, right now I am so confused and I just feel sick and shaky. Thank you for reading.

Hi sorry to read this, it does sound like he has a crush, has decided to let her know, and will now meet up with her to take things further. At the same time he is letting you know that he thinks your marriage has gone stale, and seem to blame you for that. He does not realize that if ONE party checks out of the marriage and behaves like he has, it will go stale.

Can you forward the messages to your own email/phone?

It's not your fault, don't blame yourself. I'm sorry to say but I think he's already embarked on an affair with this woman, at the very least an emotional affair. I would confront him, he is acting like a twat.

I agree it sounds suspicious and already your husband is trying to blame you in advance of him saying why he wants to see her or be with her. While I don't think anyone can dictate to anyone who they can see and be friends with, this sounds like it is crossing a line. She is in his head? Sounds like and EA to me .

I think you need to sit him down and say

"I have been thinking about why you want to spend time with someone else and not your spouse and your right, lets start spending some time working on that as its important.

lets get a babysitter so we both go out with this group

It doesn't sound good :( But then I wouldn't have been happy with the amount of time they are spending together and about how much time he spends out socialising while you are at home minding his kids. Frankly, I think that is always going to end up causing a problem.

I wouldn't confront him, I would just see what happens, if he lies to you this weekend etc, keep an eye on his phone etc

I would also start working on your marriage - discussing the fact that your are his wife not his babysitter and addressing the issues you have with each other.

Thanks for replies. I read these boards a lot under my real nickname and I know from many, many previous threads how these things play out. It's all such a fucking cliche!

QS I did try to forward the messages to my phone, but they were actually routed to his mobile via his work computer inbox, so if I had then he would have been able to tell when he went to work that they had been forwarded to my number. So after pressing 'send' I panicked and cancelled it, it never came through to my phone but am paranoid he might get a 'message undeliverable' in his imbox! Oh well, i guess if he does it will be out in the open at least!

Fab, i agree it is a textbook EA isn't it? Shit.

How horrible for you. TBH I think their relationship crossed a line when he started going out drinking with her every Friday til 2 and 3am.

Quite often in threads like these you'll see the worried wife explaining how she didn't want to seem possessive or controlling so allowed the 'friendship' to continue despite feeling discomfited by it. You'd have been well within your rights to express your concerns far sooner than this, and he would (does) absolutely have an obligation to take your concerns on board and amend his behaviour accordingly.

Don't let him put the blame onto you with the 'if you were more fun/we had more sex, I wouldn't need to be friends with her' bullshit. That is a crock. If WWIFN sees this thread I'm sure she will give you some brilliant advice about how cheating partners detach from their relationship and give themselves permission to pursue the affair. The bad news is that it seems like this is what he's doing at the moment. The good news is that it seems like they've only just admitted to themselves and each other that they've been in denial about the appropriateness and nature of their relationship it doesn't seem like anything physical has happened yet.

If he thinks your relationship is lacking something he is as responsible for trying to remedy that as you are so don't listen to his 'you're no fun any more' bollocks. It's just self justification and an excuse.

I think you have grounds to read him the riot act based on his behaviour so far alone. No need to tell him you've seen the texts, unless you think it will help give him a kick up the arse and back into reality.

So sorry you're feeling shit.

Yes it is. So sorry for you.

You really need to talk to your husband.

'Don't let him put the blame onto you with the 'if you were more fun/we had more sex, I wouldn't need to be friends with her' bullshit. That is a crock.'

madonnawhore you are spot on with that! However he has said things to that effect before she came on the scene occasionally so it's not just a new thing. Mostly though.

toughasoldboots - thank you. I have been thinking about what things would be like if we split, and I think I'd be lonely but would cope. Hope things are getting better for you.

You are both parents to 2 children yet he expects you to be up for going out on the piss til three in the morning once a week?

He needs the fucking attitude adjustment, not you. As I've said already, if he blames you it makes it easier for him to have the affair because it displaces his guilt. You haven't done anything wrong. He's acting like a grade A wanker.

I know this might sound pathetic but do you think this may all blow over if I say/do nothing? I must confess to having slight crushes on other people from time to time, they never got anything like this far out of hand though.

There are usually others there for most of the time when they're out together but not for the whole night. I just hate being gossiped about too you know? It's fucking humiliating.

madonnwhore - you're right, I didn't want to be possessive and tell him he can't see her. I've always had male friends and have never been a particularly jealous person. It was clearly upsetting her boyfriend though and causing people to talk. I remember him saying once something like, 'if I want to be friends with R I'll be friends with R and fuck anyone who says I can't.' Nice.

I would just move right on into her space and make sure there is none left for her to even take a short breath in. Big elbows and move her right on along.

He is behaving like a wahtever rude word you want to call him.

it is whther you want him to stay married to you or let him go

You could tell him you saw the messages, and have decided to go away for the weekend to think about your relationship, and what you want to do next. And whether to let his friend know. Drop this bomb on him when he comes back from work on Friday.

I can almost guarantee that it will send him into a panic.

Go through with it.
He will have Friday night at home with the kids to mull things over, and will have to find a babysitter to go and smooch with his friends girlfriend.

Your husband is being disloyal to both you and his friend.

arse arse arse arse.

He's being a twat and is on a collision course right now. In your shoes, I actually would pull him up on it straight away before anything does actually happen. I'd also be telling her to keep the fuck away from your family. Don't let him turn it around so you're to blame, he's the one being a twat whilst you're at home with your kids. I am a feisty one.

You seem more worried about the fact that you looked at his phone than the fact that he has been massively taking the piss out of you (and his best(?) friend) for quite some time.

1. Why does your husband go out with another woman until 3 in the morning when you have small children? Are you really fine with that? Or do you think you're not allowed to say, no, it's not acceptable, stop being a twat?

1. How much bloody fun has he been for you? He doesn't sound like much fun to me, leaving you on your own every Friday night whilst he goes out with his mate's girlfriend. How has he contributed to the relationship not being 'functional'.

Feeling really angry on your behalf SJ. You don't sound nearly angry enough to me - maybe shock or delayed reaction? But come on honey, get the doormat tattoo off your head. Sorry if that sounds rude, but I used to have one too - because I didn't want to be 'controlling' or 'nagging'.

This is an affair, make no mistake about it.

On a general note, it makes me so cross that women of your generation have a greater fear of stating your boundaries and expectations and being accused of jealousy and paranoia, than of their partner having an affair, but I think there is such a culturally sanctioned blindness right now about the possibility of infidelity between friends, I can see why it happens.

I would bet a sizeable sum that these chats he has been having about your relationship occurred after he started the friendship/mirroring stage with this woman. You may have seen my other threads where I observe that affairs have 3 distinct phases; the friendship stage, the pre-affair permission-giving stage and the affair stage.

It is extremely commonplace for a soon-to-be unfaithful partner to instigate a chat masquerading as their concerns about the relationship, but think hard OP and tell me whether the most recent of these chats contained any efforts that he would make to improve your relationship, or whether he has followed through on any of your requests, if made.

His motive for talking to you was not to improve the relationship at all, but to set you up to fail. He had no intention of re-investing in your relationship at that stage and wanted you to take the blame for his subsequent physical infidelity.

Time to get tough and confront this. Tell him you believe he is having an emotional affair with this woman at the very least and insist on honesty about how far this has gone. Once that's established, tell him that you want him to sever this friendship completely.

It might be worth comparing notes with his BF (who is also being made a complete fool of) and pooling your knowledge. I would have no compunction admitting that you have been looking at his phone either; that was long overdue in my opinion and he gave you numerous grounds to distrust him.

I think an especially horrible twist in this tale is that he is blaming you for his infidelity, but don't accept it and instead remember that infidelity happens when an unfaithful partner stops giving to the relationship. You on the other hand have been giving him so much slack while you were left at home looking after his children, all the while he took from you. This hasn't happened because he wasn't getting enough of something, I assure you. It happened because he stopped investing in your relationship and invested elsewhere.

How friendly are you with his mate? I'd go for a double pronged attack. I think if you don't do anything, a line will definitely be crossed. At the moment it's an EA, and possibly a PA waiting to happen, and far more damage will be done if they get that far.

What I'd do (with the benefit of experience and hindsight) is talk, talk, talk. Secrecy fuels this kind of thing, if they both feel you, and possibly her DP, are aware of what's going on, it may be the metaphorical equivalent of chucking a bucket of water over them. Don't feel remotely bad about curtailing his nights out, you have to protect your marriage and family.

I do have to say, he sounds a bit questionable anyway. Are you sure you want to be with this man? She might be doing you a favour, in a very roundabout kind of way. Don't mean that to sound callous, that's now how I view the OW in my situation though..

ivykaty44 I just can't be there when they're all together all the time. It sounds horrible but I am basically stuck here indoors fretting about it, it sucks!

The thing is, me and her were starting to become friends too, although we probably wouldn't have been close as she won't really open up properly. After the kissing thing came out she asked me to meet for a drink and we had a nice chat about it, she told me it was bullshit and I told her I believed her and that was that. Obviously there have been further developments since then though. I think she is slightly intimidated by me as I'm quite self confident and others in the group look up to me (don't mean to sound big-headed, sorry ).

She doesn't really seem to have any proper friends. I think she must be very socially anxious. I actually feel a bit sorry for her as fucked up as that sounds! Maybe she thought she'd found a friend in my dh and now he's getting all gooey with her. She could always tell him to fuck off though, she doesn't have to have private drinks with him and keep emailing him.

And yes I know it's him that's at fault, not her.

I was just thinking what would I say to my DH if this was him. I think I would say to him that I wasn't happy with what he was doing and the fact that I was upset by it should be enough for him to stop, and if it wasn't then that told me what he thought of our marriage and me.

OH and texting her on Christmas morning??? Talk about alarm bells. WTF!

You're his wife and the mother of his children, so tell him to man up and take some responsibility for your relationship and show some respect to you.

And breathe...

p.s. sorry you're going through this, it's shit

Do not feel sorry for her. She has very questionable morals at the very least. She is angling for a married man, with children, while cheating on her own boyfriend.

She has no place in your group of friends.

She is also at fault, she knows he is married and has children so therefore is not free.