ex husband - continued bullying, how do i stop it?

[redderthanred]

We have been seperated for 20 months.
Divorce was started, but then for lots of reasons it didnt get very far.

Cant start it up again as there is no legal aid avaliable at the momment.

Anyway, he is still super bullying, agressive, controlling and horrible. The marriage was full of his constant affairs, emotional and occassional physical abuse.

He will go along being all quiet and friendly and helpful for a short while and then blow up in my face.

I automatically take the role i took in our marriage, which is to panic and then try and sort it out, what ever the cost is to me.
Or i try and rebuff for a few days, telling him i will not discus it, or i will not talk to him while he is being like that, but eventually i get dragged in.

Couple of days later i realise what i have done and that he has won again.

He also cronically lies. I know he always lies, about everything. But why do i automatically belive him, and not question it until some hours later? normally once he has fed me the lies and shouted at me?

Firstly - how on earth do i stop this happening.

Secondly, - im about to do something which i know is going to make him seriously kick off at me. How to i protect myself from the inevetiable?

I'm not really experienced in all this, but one thing jumps out at me.

Stop trying to get him to agree to things.

He can't control the world.

If you say he is only to call between, say, 5pm and 6pm then you don't pick up the phone when he rings at other times. Let the phone ring and ring. Let your mobile ring and ring (though I'd change my mobile number, then that problem is solved).

If he hides his number then get an answerphone and screen calls where the number doesn't show up. If he calls from another number at the wrong time, just put the phone straight down.

He will rant and rant about all the above but if you simply refuse to discuss it (and the arrangements were fair in the first place) then he WILL eventually have to give up.

If you are out, then tough you are out. You could email him notice of this or simply say, sorry, sometimes we are out. Then that also covers you if DD doesn't fancy talking to him - just don't pick up.

xposts with snorbs and cargirl saming exactly the same.

I personally would change my land line number and get a mobile specifically for his calls to DD. I'm sure she can be persuaded to use it eventually. Then it can be switched off at other times.

yep that all makes sense.

I think im just caught in the trap of not wanting to be seen to be hindering contact between them. doing the best for dd. and avoiding upsetting him.

I could just say in an email, that DD will be avalaible for calls on say tue, wed, thur from between 4:30pm and 5:30pm. But that on some odd occassions we may not be in.

And i answer the phone if it rings during this time.

If he rings outside this time i dont.

If he texts me crap then its tough and i ignore it.

If he is abusive on the phone the next time he calls then he gets hung up on.

Eventually he will get the message.
its like a 0 tollerance thing isnt it.

Yes zero tolerance, I wouldn't give him an hour slot, I'd give him half an hour max at a time that is going to be fine on most days. Why are you giving him 3 days really 2 will be plenty.

Also plan ahead what is going to fit in best once she is in full time school, how is that going to impact your weekly routines?

Yes, exactly.

You are still participating in a game with him. As someone said earlier - you need to leave the ring.

Don't be hard on yourself that you have no clue (yet) how to stop the cycle you're trapped in. Arseholes like him spend years getting you to that point.

Womens Aid (and people here) can help you learn what to do instead

"But he wont do a set time/day so i cant just not do anything on the off chance he might call."

It's not about what he'll do. Set a time, say DD will be available at that time and don't answer the phone to him unless it's that time. Let him call and call. There's a simple solution to that, uplug the phone, turn off the mobile. I think you'd need to do this for perhaps a week, then he'd get the message. He doesn't have a right to abuse you through contact with your DD, which is what he is doing. If you make provision for him to call, and he doesn't use that provision then that's his problem. Also, if you have a set time, you can just have DD answer the phone. You needn't answer it at all. At 4 she can tell if it's someone else calling. He'll try and get you to talk, but just tell DD to say goodbye and hang up.

"I have of course tried explaining this to him. But you can probably guess it makes no difference, he just says you are stopping me, i shall call when i like."

If he shall call when he likes, you shall pick up the phone when you like!

"DD sometimes shouts at him saying things like ' im eating my tea now daddy, call me when i have finished'"

This is worrisome, because through bullying you about when he gets to talk to DD, he is also bullying her. Thankfully it seems your DD is capable of telling him to bugger off when she's busy, but if you role model placating to him often enough that's what she'll start doing too, and little girls who placate abusive daddy often go on to placate abusive partners

I really do think contact through a contact centre would be best for all concerned though. I don't like to think of your DD alone with this abuser. At a contact centre he'd be supervised with her and you wouldn't ever have to interact with him again. Please look into it at least, Red.

CarGirl, I disagree about limiting phone contact to only two days a week. Napoleona's DD is young. "Little and often" tends to work better for contact at that age.

Red - there is some really good advice here, and I don't really have anything to add to it.

I am so glad you will be contacting WA, please stick to that.

And remember, you have bent over backwards to preserve the relationship between exH and DD, HE is the one who has made things difficult.

I just wish I was closer so I could pop round with RL cake and hugs

But how often is he having contact I thought it was once during the week and every other weekend so that is still contact every few days at most?

its never been during the week. Its just every other weekend.

I have offered him time to have DD on say a wednesday as i know he ususally finishes work at about 1:30pm. But he refuses. He lives an hour away.

But i have made her avaliable.

Of course, this is changeable due to his job. At the begining of the year he didnt see her for about 2 months. But he has had her for a full week during the summer.

Then its awful DD cries and tells me she wants to come home. He tells her not to be so silly though has told me eventually she cries and says she wants to come home.

But he has said he wants her for a week and thats what he wants.

I feel very very trapped by it. I understand fathers rights. I understand he is her dad. She does love him and likes spending time with him.
But i also know he doesnt listen to her, treats her like shes stupid and doesnt care when shes upset and wants to come home.

DD is a ballsey girl. I know she stands up to him. She came home last weekend telling me about something he had tried to get her to do that she didnt want to. She told me she refused and he got cross and then she cried when he wasnt looking.

I feel sad about that.

But its all fathers rights. Contact is best.

It's not actually about fathers' rights, it's your dds rights to have contact with her father.

It would look good on him in court if he refuses to have her one evening a week when he only lives an hour away and finishes early once per week!

She does love him though. she does like spending time with him.

Though he has had her for 3 weekends in row now and she really didnt want to go this week. She kept saying ' please mummy, can i just stay withyou' please mummy, can we just be together'

its too much for her to be away for me so many weekends in a row. But i agreed as he now isnt seeing her for a few weekends. I think in the future i will just say no.

you know ive said he could take her to the park, or out for tea, or even to his parents who only live 10 mins from me.

But he wont.

yet he shouts at me if im not there to pick up the phone.

Every other weekend and phone calls Tues, Thurs & Sats - something like that? You decide what you think is reasonable and then tell him what you will accept.

No I disagree. Fathers do have rights, but abusive fathers forfeit those rights. He has shown himself to be unworthy of the privilege of being a father by physically assaulting his daughter's mother and being abusive to her. The way you describe his interactions with her really worries me. I think he is emotionally abusive to your DD and he is training her to be a victim of his and her later partner's abuse.

SO many times on MN you hear women in abusive relationships who accept the abuse of their partners because they were groomed to be abuse victims by their parents. It is not acceptable, and it is your duty as her mother to protect her from abuse.

Please look into contact at a contact centre. I really don't think it is right for him to be seeing her unsupervised if he behaves so abusively to her and your behaviour tacitly condones his abuse to her.

He really doesn't seem to have any redeeming features that you've shared. You are worried about him not returning her. She cries because she wants to come home. She sometimes doesn't want to talk him on the phone

I think your dd is trying to tell you how she feels about that contact, what do you think that is?

but the thing is - no court in the world would rule that based on his behaviour towards me.

proving he is bullying to her is impossibe, it is after all a 4 year olds voice aganist his. 4 years olds are not relaible at the best of times.

I know he tries some of the same things on her. Like when she is on the phone to him she likes it on speaker phone then i just put it on the table.

If she doesnt want to talk he will say things like
' well fine then DD, if you wont talk to me i will just go. you have upset me'

she just says ' oh well, bye then.

it doesnt work on her.
She is the most confident little girl. She is so self assured. If she thinks something she wont be told otherwise. If someone says something she doesnt agree with she will say no you are wrong, or no, im not going to do that.
and then she tells me.

Like the other week she came home and said
' daddy said i cant do this and i told him i can and i will' (it was about doing tricks on her scooter) ' he was wrong wasnt he mummy'
and i tell her, yes, he was wrong, and if she wants to do tricks on her scooter then she can.

I then have to tell him, that she is allowed to do tricks on her scooter. because she is not a baby and nor is she 2. Shes almost 5 and if she wants to go wizzing along in the garden with one leg in the air then she should be allowed to. and if she falls then she learns.

God help her teachers, and god help me when shes older.

Im confident, but its sometihng thats come later in life, so there is still that underlying not confident ness. or i am confident, but my self beliefe, self esteme is low. and my people pleaser ness is high.

Shes confident, and full of self esteme and self beliefe.

but DD also says she misses him and then gets excited about seeing him.

I just think that 2 sleeps is enough for her. 3 at the most.

and its the law that says fathers rights.
my solicitor said i had no right to stop him.

At the moment Red, yes your daughter does sound fairly able to stand up for herself. But being exposed to a bully will teach her otherwise if you don't stop it. 4 is certainly young enough to be taught to be cowed by bullies, particularly if her mother who is meant to protect her, condones that bullying by facilitating the abusive contact.

"it doesnt work on her."

Yet.

As dittany says, it is very unfair to expect a 4 yo to stand up to a man you are afraid of. And you don't see how often she doesn't. Yes, perhaps she stand up to him on some things, but then she tells you she doesn't want to see him and you make her. What are you communicating to her? That her feelings are subservient to her father.

"and its the law that says fathers rights."

Providing that father is not abusive. He is abusive, so his rights are forfeit.

"my solicitor said i had no right to stop him."

Then either you did not tell your solicitor the full extent of his abuse, or your solicitor is wrong.

its really just that my solicitor said i had to.
that if i blocked it it would look bad on me.

that Dd's wishes would not be taken into consideration as she is so young.

I posted on the lone parents board a few days ago about the spat we were having about xmas.
few posters came back saying i was out of order and it was his DD as well and that his contact offer of the whole 2 weeks, bar 2 days was fine. and that i should facilliate that and thats how it is.

The fact that i would have barley seen her, and she would have barley seen me was just not an issue.

my solicitor didnt care.
I did complain about him as she made several side remarks to me.
I asked to swap with another one.

he called me back and told me i was being over emotional and that he could handle the case and deal with in in half the time and far more comptently than the other women solicitors.

But you have not been honest with everyone about his abuse, have you? Any solicitor worth their salt would be able to restrict contact with a partner who has an abusive history to contact centres.

You have your parents as witness to his harassing you, you regularly receive abusive phone calls and texts which you can record and keep to log with the police, you have presumably been injured by him which may be documented in your medical history. That ought to be more than enough to restrict his contact with you and your DD.

This is why you need to call WA. They will advise you of all of this and put you in contact with a solicitor who will actually stand up for you and help you. Honestly your solicitor sounds crap.

I know you're clinging to what your old solicitor told you because you are scared of standing up to him, and that's understandable, but you have a duty to protect yourself and your DD from his abuse. He does not have a right to abuse either of you. If he cannot have contact with you without abusing, then he cannot have contact. That is also the law.