H using self help book in row

[onelastchance]

As some of you know from other posts, dh and i have been having a vry tough time.

I bought a couple of books, oe about anger management and one about emotional abuse. We have a weekly chat to discuss what we've agreed to read the previous week.

had a row (ironically about him not doing excercised in the book). It escalated s i was too upset to make u with him despite him making a few attempts. he then started ranting about it beig me who was abusing him and shouting really loudly all in front of ds (4). He stomed out of house and i could't help crying which then made poor ds cry too :(

H bought presents for me and ds in the evening to say sorry and if the shouting/ranting had ben a one off, i'd be ok now. trouble is, i'm pretty sure it'll happen again.

Am i being ureasonable for being upset about him not putting more effort into the reading and then refusing to make up with him?

sounds like nagging to me.

your relationship has hit the bottom asfar as you are concerned.

so YOu buy HIM some books then get mad at him for not reading them

as a big boy, if he wanted to read the books and make an effort he would do so.

you shouldnt have to remind him to work at the marriage, if he doesn't want to - fuck it leave him.

no, but you are being unreasonable for fighting like that in front of a small child

Are you still putting up with this, onelast? Oh dear :(

Your last sentence really means "Am I abusing him, like he says?" Don't be daft.

If you've read those books, you'll see where it says abusers may use the information in them to step up their abuse. Men on "anger management" courses are always using its principles against their partners.

Remind me again - why have you decided to change another adult's personality, instead of simply accepting the facts??

my marriage got to breaking point a few years ago. i told dh that a condition of us trying again would be for him to SEEK out anger management course and attend it and he did so.

why don't you go to counselling - dont tell me you can't afford it or i'll scream.

We've tried counselling together before, although i'm planning to go myself soon.

Grace, he siad i was abusing hi because i kept going o about being upset and refused to make up with him. Ironically his excuse for not asking how i was just acting like nothing had happed, was that he didn't want to talk about it in fron tof ds! The 1/2 hr later, he's shouting in front of him.

To be fair, i think he was sorry and did apologise to ds too. He's made an effort this weekend,cooking special dinner and booking a hotel for my birthday

Yeah, but he doesn't care about your feelings, does he? Obviously he's going to get cross when you tell him you're upset. Usually, you tell him you're upset, he ignores you, you shut up. Now you've decided something must be done, you're trying to make him "HEAR" your unhappiness - he just wants you to shut up again.

Custardo's been there & bought a few t-shirts. I like her first reply to you.

Hmm, I didn't read your last properly. Good news about the dinner - how was the weekend for you, overall? Has he actually booked the hotel?

Yes, he does usually get annoyed if i say i'm upset. Although on saturday morning i woke up feeling comletely defalted and he was quite nice and checked how i was a couple of times during the day.

yes, he has booked the hotel

I'm already wondering if he will have done the reading we agreed before this weeks chat. I's almsost causing me more anxiety than not doing it.

Grace you're right,he dosen't want to hear if i'm upset. strangely though he still sometime asks how i am, but then seems ot object if i'm not happy with something esp if to do with him.

A couple of friens have said i either need to put up with him as he is (which really means altering some of my behaviour/not expressing my feelings) or leave

This is silly. We're going out on weds eve (my suggestion to say thanks to him for looking after me while recovering from my break) and i'm worried that i'll be anxious all evening about whether he's done his reading for our chat on thurs. I can already hear him saying to me that he hasn't done it because we went out on weds eve. We agreed to go out on saturday, so plenty of time. he's just got tomorrow eve left now... Hate this feeling

bump...anyone there?

"Yes, he does usually get annoyed if i say i'm upset. Although on saturday morning i woke up feeling completely deflated and he was quite nice and checked how i was a couple of times during the day."

Yes, first they deflate you, then they`re nice, because they know you are back in your place - deflated.
(Or did you mean "defeated" - not much difference.)

I thought he would say that it was you being the abusive one! Just stick to your guns, write down exactly what happened, and WHO was abusive. Getting upset because someone has not kept their part of the bargain is not abusive, SHOUTING AND RANTING to deflect responsibility IS abusive.

Don't let him make you think any differently!

I found that this was the key problem of using the 'abuse' word - from now on you will always be the abuser - if you want him to do something you're abusive and bullying, if you disagree you're abusive and controlling.

Hopefully if you can predict what he's going to say - you don't need to rise to it.

Clearly easier said than done!

can I also add - and this isn't to be horrible, YOU can't change him, and he seems as though he's not at all committed to doing what it takes and is keeping you walking on eggshells.

He would only become an easier person to live with if he truly accepted responsibility for his behaviour, and made his OWN efforts to get help and to change. That doesn't seem to be the case.

I do agree with your friend, ultimately, unless he chooses to recognise his issues, then you can either learn to live with him, or you can leave.

I battled with my violent ex for 5 months trying to get him to take responsibility for his behaviour and to go to counselling (but he never did). It was a waste of my time, emotion and energy.

it all seems terribly focused on the book - i dont think this is going to work wthtout outside help - and to be honest i doubt it anyway.

he doesnt want to change he just gives you a few bites to keep you sweet....

focus on you and your own counselling - you've given him enough information, given him the books - let him take the lead - if he does not, then you know it's a loser.

Yes, your're right it does seem focussed on the book - nothing else has worked :( We've had counselling together but that made little difference too.

II told him this morning i was still anxious. He seemd to think a hug would do the trick, i told him it needed alot more than that - he told me i was reacting negatively. I asked if he's done his reading for thursday - he said he was doing it tonight - predictable. I asked if he was anxious about things. he said he was a bit about what he's read in the book (which shows he hadn't read what he said he's read last week). I asked if he was anxious abou any of my behaviour - i said no, because i've done everything i've agreed to do. Shame he can't do the same :(

Oh, sweetheart. He criticises you for not feeling the way he wants you to! What a nutcase. Any minute now, he'll be telling you what to think, when to pee, how much to breathe ... You do realise you're in this relationship 'deal' all by yourself, don't you?

It probably doesn't seem like it to you, onelast, but you've gained quite a bit in strength & common sense since you started posting. Maybe the book's the last stand between wishes and reality? When that doesn't work (yes, I did say 'when'), you'll be able to face facts. What do you think?

I hope you have a nice time tomorrow night, though. You need more fun in your life :)

Thanks Grace. To be fair i sure he won't be telling me what to do in other areas - he just doesn't like it when i feel abd about things he's done. I have freedom to do things i want, going out, spending money, seeig friends, etc.

Thanks for saying i seem a bit stronger too :) If i don't mention anything about our "situation" when we're out on weds, sure we'll have a nice time (as long as i'm not too anxious). We get on fine as friends

I have freedom to do things i want, going out, spending money, seeig friends, etc.

What do you mean by this? Freedom to do this from yourself, or your husband??

If it's the latter, why do you feel he is your "keeper"? You're an adult woman, aren't you? And an autonomous being. You can make every decision that affects your own life. You don't need anyone's permission.

I just meant he doesnt try to stop me doing any of those things, as i know some controlling men do.

I know i don;t need permission!

Sorry I have only skimmed this through lack of time but I do think as others have said you are focussing on this book too much. Your H obviously feels under pressure to his "homework" and he doesn't want to do it, so he gets guilty about it and then covers that with anger. In my view a lot of men lack emotional intelligence and hate talking about feelings.

I would forget the book thing which seems to be causing so much friction and anxiety and maybe ask him to come up with something that would suit him. Can you not just talk to each other about your difficulties (maybe put time aside) no longer than an hour for an "amnesty" where both of you can say what you feel without the other becoming angry or unreasonable.

In fact anything but the book!

Was not surprised to read that joint counselling was not successful; it rarely if ever is in these types of abusive relationship situations. Also anger management is of no benefit either here; it can teach such men to be even more covert with their abuse tactics. Bet you as well he does not get angry with his work colleagues or people outside the home so he can control his temper/anger if he wants to.

If you go to counselling you need to go on your own. You're trying to fix this by using self help books but he's not really wanting to hear what you're trying to say to him. Where's the consequences for his actions?. I do not think he wants to hear or acknowledge your distress either.

What you are both teaching your child here is damaging lessons; lessons he could well repeat as an adult in his own relationships.

I would contact Womens Aid and discuss your situation further with them.

He's upstairs reading the book atm

However I think you may be right about the book. it's causing more anxiety than it's doing good. I think I'll say at our next chat that if he wants to read it that's fine, but to do it himslef and just let me know if there's anything he wants to share and i'll do the same.

I'll just reitarate the behaviour i find inacceptable and leave it to him to find ways of stopping it and tell him if there's anything i can do to help, i'll try o do it.

I still plan to try going to relate alone.

How does that sound?

Attila, you're right he never expresses anger to anyone but me

I think it's a great idea to go to relate on your own, onelast :)

I also agree with what you suggested about leaving the book in the background. Your intentions were good, but it's just turned into another blockage really.
You know why Attila asked about him being angry with other people, too, don't you :(