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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

H using self help book in row

468 replies

onelastchance · 23/08/2010 00:34

As some of you know from other posts, dh and i have been having a vry tough time.

I bought a couple of books, oe about anger management and one about emotional abuse. We have a weekly chat to discuss what we've agreed to read the previous week.

had a row (ironically about him not doing excercised in the book). It escalated s i was too upset to make u with him despite him making a few attempts. he then started ranting about it beig me who was abusing him and shouting really loudly all in front of ds (4). He stomed out of house and i could't help crying which then made poor ds cry too :(

H bought presents for me and ds in the evening to say sorry and if the shouting/ranting had ben a one off, i'd be ok now. trouble is, i'm pretty sure it'll happen again.

Am i being ureasonable for being upset about him not putting more effort into the reading and then refusing to make up with him?

OP posts:
Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 12:41

I haven't called him back. I've called a letting agency to find out about houses to rent. I'm very worrie about the financial side. The letting agency said you're quite restricted on properies if you're on benefits. But she said if you start of payning rent yourself (which i could do from savings for a while) it's then ok to stay in property if you start to claim benefits later? Could i do that then, sart claiming benefits when saving are runnng low?

OP posts:
Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 12:47

it's not so much i'm scared of calling him. I just feel very badly about the situation and don't want him to upset me further, eg by telling me i'm negative, etc and it's my misery ruining things

OP posts:
spiritmum · 26/08/2010 13:07

Onelast, I know this is really easy for me to say but he can only upset you if you let him.

If you are unhappy and you do feel negative, what do you think you can do to change how you feel within yourself rather than through expecting him to change?

Did you ring the lettings agency because you are thinking of moving out and leaving?

Harbour · 26/08/2010 13:08

onelast, you can claim housing benefit without the landlord (or estate agent), ever knowing - it is paid direct to you.

IfGraceAsks · 26/08/2010 13:14

The letting agent's correct. Find out the level of housing benefit you'd be entitled to, then rent a place that fits the price. Pay the deposit & advance rent yourself, then apply for housing benefit. Housing benefit is paid directly to your bank account, unless you request payment to the agent. The landlord need never know you're getting benefit.
Well done for starting your exit!

I completely understand about calling him. After you've started counselling, you'll learn a few tricks to help you stick to the facts when talking to him, and to ignore his digs at you. (It'll be nice to be the one doing the ignoring for a change Wink )
xxx

Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 13:22

Thanks Grace :) I did call him and he swanted to know how i was. I told him i was feeling awful, same as i had been. He sounded quite sympatetic, but he was at work. I didn't really say much to him, as didn't feel very talkative.

Yesterday i said that as we didn't go out yesterday evening, maybe we could today. Not really sure i want to. That says alot really, normally i love evenings out

OP posts:
secretskillrelationships · 26/08/2010 13:49

OLC I suspect your situation is similar to mine used to be. We did 18 months of joint counselling with Relate which went nowhere. It was only after about 14 months that the counsellor started to ask me some challenging questions about whether the counselling was helping. I still found it hard to admit but the genie was out of the bottle. But I still wasn't ready to make the decision.

I spent a few months in individual counselling with a different counsellor which was also unhelpful with the counsellor repeatedly saying 'He's not here to defend himself' so do be very careful who you see. This was probably my lowest point as the counselling merely added to my stress. Recognising that I was right and she was wrong was, however, quite helpful in helping to restore some of my sense of self.

The situation was compounded by the fact that everyone thinks he's great and people tend to see me as the assertive and more challenging partner while he seems very easy going. Also, by my experiences as a child of divorced parents. I still think that divorce is a 'least worst' option.

It took a long time for me to recognise that just because he said he cared, wanted it to work etc etc it didn't actually mean that he did! It has been a very painful lesson in judging on actions not words - 'love is as love does' as our counsellor said repeatedly. Even so, it was only when I realised that he didn't actually want to be with me that I was finally able to walk away.

It's not easy to be in the situation you are in. You are over-responsible, as am I, partly due to your upbringing and partly just because you are. But you need to start bringing that responsibility to bear on yourself. If you were your DH how would you be behaving? If your DH said to you what you have said to him, how would you react? I doubt you'd behave or react the way he is. If you did react the way he is, how would you be feeling?

Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 14:19

thanks secrets. Wow that was a ong time you went to relate!

Thinking about what do. In recet weeks, if i'd agreed to book a restaurant and he'd said it'd mean alot to him, i'd do it and make sure i didn't forget. i'd tell him when i'd done it so he's know. I would do my best not to do things he'd said were unacceptable to him.

as a result of reading the book, he's now saying that i'm abusing him by saying if things don't improve i'll leave. One of the examples of abuse in the book is saying you'll leave if such and such happensdoesn't happen

OP posts:
IfGraceAsks · 26/08/2010 14:49

Well spotted, onelast ...

IfGraceAsks · 26/08/2010 14:55

... Threatening to leave is abuse if you keep saying it to try & force obedience. That's different from saying "I'm so unhappy that our relationship's in jeopardy; what can we do about it?" You weren't trying to scare him into obediently serving your needs. You were telling the truth.

Brilliant example of how abusers turn relationship advice against their partner.

spiritmum · 26/08/2010 15:01

Onelast, I don't know your back story so some of my posts may be very off. If so forgive me.

Generally speaking it is unfair to threaten to leave if you don't get your own way. However from what I've read here it's obvious this doesn't apply to you. Rather your threatening to leave fro very vaild reasons has been counter-productive, because he doesn't believe it. And now the book has given him another way of using it to get at you.

Tbh I'd just bin the book. It sounds like its success is reliant on both of you changing at the same pace and in the same way and that isn't happening.

If I were in your situation I would say something like, 'I've got a problem. When you do xxxx/are xxxx I feel xxxx. This makes me xxxx and I can't live like this any more. If you continue to xxxxx then I will have to leave.'

But it may be too late for this, if you've already been clear about his actions and the consequences for you. In which case you only have one option, don't you? And you have already started to take it. The first step is often the hardest.

IfGraceAsks · 26/08/2010 15:06

Spiritmum, he says her feelings are "wrong".

IfGraceAsks · 26/08/2010 15:07

(invalidates her feelings.) I hit Send too soon!

spiritmum · 26/08/2010 15:13

I'd kind of got that, Grace. Sad. Which is why I thought it may be too late.

If someone told me that my feelings are wrong I'd answer that they may see it like that, but I cannot help what I feel and I have a right to do whatever is necessary to change my circumstances so that my feelings/well-being recover.

But I know that isn't easy to do if you are in a relationship where you are continually being wrong-footed into doubting yourself.

Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 17:35

He'll be home soon. I don't know how to behave? suppose he mentions going out tonight?

OP posts:
dittany · 26/08/2010 17:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mathanxiety · 26/08/2010 17:48

Take your books back. Everything he can read in them can and will be used against you. He will not change.

If he mentions going out, say you couldn't be bothered and run the bath or do something for yourself. Tell him to have a nice time out by himself. The going out suggestion is designed to reel you back in since you've been getting so uppity lately.

IfGraceAsks · 26/08/2010 17:59

Agree with Math :) Or ...
Are the children still away? Any chance of arranging a quick pizza with a girlfriend, while he does his own thing?

Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 18:27

He's just got home. he's offered me a drink and asked if i needed any help with anything. I responded politely but quite cooly. he's gone to do some stuff in the garden now

OP posts:
bossykate · 26/08/2010 18:27

hello olc

get rid of your current books and get Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft.

good luck xx

Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 18:28

yes Grace, ds is away til Sunday. tbh don't really feel like seeing anyone tonight. On saturday we're going out to the restaurant he forgot to book the table for, until reminded.Not sure i want to do that now either...

OP posts:
Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 18:30

thanks kate, will do that :)

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 26/08/2010 19:14

Going to the restaurant would be interpreted by him as a successful effort to get you to bow to his will. Find something else to do. If you go he will accuse you of not really wanting to be there and making faces or otherwise not appreciating the effort he has made. If you don't go, you'll also be accused of not appreciating the effort he has made. On the question of the restaurant, you are being set up for an accusation whether you go or not.

Original poster
onelastchance · 26/08/2010 19:28

well he's been in the garden for the last hour, still there so i guess he's forgotten about restaurant or just not mentioning it because of my mood

OP posts:
chattymitchy · 26/08/2010 19:48

onelast - you're never, ever going to win.

Because he's never, ever going to change - in fact all he's going to do is control you further by turning word abuse against you. It was predictable that he would do it (most abusers seem to apparently) and now he has.

He'll keep you on the wrong foot continuously. If you ask whether he's forgotten the restaurant, he'll make out that you're being nasty then nice (because you were cool earlier) - which he'll say is an example of abuse. If you don't mention the restaurant, he will DEFINITELY find some way to use it against you.

Try to think of a small child who simply can't function at an adult level - then your DH won't continually surprise you as to the levels he will stoop to, and the ways he will manipulate you without any recognition of how pathetic and wrong he actually is.

He can't look at his own behaviour and recognise how pathetic it is - I'm guessing (like my XP) he has no self-awareness at all.

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