H using self help book in row

[onelastchance]

As some of you know from other posts, dh and i have been having a vry tough time.

I bought a couple of books, oe about anger management and one about emotional abuse. We have a weekly chat to discuss what we've agreed to read the previous week.

had a row (ironically about him not doing excercised in the book). It escalated s i was too upset to make u with him despite him making a few attempts. he then started ranting about it beig me who was abusing him and shouting really loudly all in front of ds (4). He stomed out of house and i could't help crying which then made poor ds cry too :(

H bought presents for me and ds in the evening to say sorry and if the shouting/ranting had ben a one off, i'd be ok now. trouble is, i'm pretty sure it'll happen again.

Am i being ureasonable for being upset about him not putting more effort into the reading and then refusing to make up with him?

Ive read lots of books on twattishness , they often have differant aproaches but theres usually a common thread. I read one recently called controlling people , it had an interesting aproach to it.

The book said to imagine a child playing with Dolly / teddy.. Dolly says and does exactly what you want , when you want , and that some men grow up with a warped expectation of having Dolly or teddy for a wife. Everythings fine while your willing to be Dolly , if you dont object , complain, have any needs or wants of your own , if your happy to be played with every now and then ( on their terms ) and ignored the rest of the time.

At some point that changes and the book implies these men struggle with being seperate , they dont see you as a seperate person, but an extension of themselves. Any thoughts or displeasure on your part is seen as an attempt to be seperate , and you pay if you do this. Just conform and be quiet, and everything will be ok. Theres a large section which claims that women in underpriveledged countrys have been trained to be Dolly, and their goverment supports this.

Anyway, its quite an interesting read , but it does say, that your anger isnt the problem, its your attempt to stay seperate ( to have your own thoughts and feelings ) that is the problem. Some people dont see themselves as they really are , and if thats the case, they cant possibly see you.

As i understood that quote from LB it wasnt saying that i had an anger problem and that was the reason my husband was abusive to me ,so please dont think i am blaming your temper OLC,not at all ,i think even the most placid people become angry when treated this way.How i took it was occaisionally i would get to the end of my tether and that is when the most abusive behaviour would occur ,because "dolly" got cross .My X just thought he was entitled to put bad "dolly" back in her proper role.

I am only beginning to understand this in the last few months olc because now i am outside of the relationship,he had less control when we split but he still tried to control me.Now my heart has caught up with what my head has known for a long time and i am finally free .

I was wondering about opninion on the latest thing that's happened. As you know i'm recovering from a broken ankle. ds starts school this week and there's a steep hill to walk up. it was too difficyult for me. I asked dh to go into school office and ask if ok for me to used disabled parking when ds starts to avoid the hill. he refused and siad as h'ed be coming with me for ds's first day, it didn't matter. i asked him several times, but he said there was no point, just to use the disabled space. So instead when we got home, i called the office and fortunately there was someone there and she said it was fine to use the space and thanks for letting her know.

It's a small thing i know, just made me feel so helpless as i was unable to walk up to slope to the office to ask :(

Why couldn't you just ring them yourself in the first place?
Forgive me but you do seem to put DH in the metaphorical driving seat for everything and then complain when he doesn't do it.
Take more control yourself.

I didn't know i couldn't get up the hill until we went there today to try. I was hoping i could get up it myself so didn't think to call before.

Sorry, I don't agree that i put dh in the driving seat for everything at all!

I think you shouldve just made the phone call yourself . Maybe you asked him to do it as you wanted hom to prove, or show that he was concerned for you ( which would be understandable considering where your at ) but i think you are destined to end up feeling let down by asking anything of him.

I think I had to ask myself was i happy, OLC .Did I want this for the rest of my life ?If you are happy stay put ,if not move on x

Sorry maybe i didn't make it clear. Dh and i were outside the school, the slope to get to the front door was too steep for me so i asked him to go to the door and see if there was anyone in the office to talk to about parking. This is what he refused to do. Therefore i made a phone call when we got home as i was unable to get up the slope

So really wondered if his refusal to go into the school office was a form of control - in that i couldn't do it myself?

Feel so lonely. We're still in separate rooms but not really missing being with him - just lonely

just general disrespect,all part of the behaviour ie would he have done it for someone else with a sore ankle and been all helpful....just think you are at a crossroads olc,you are becoming more aware of stuff .I would talk to WA and CAB just to find out info,did you get the name of a good counsellor ?

Thanks patience. he said there was no point in asking as he'd be with me tomorrow and could drop me off.I just didn't want to have to worry about it, but he just refused, saying no point. It'd only have taken a minute. I've not been able to sort out counseeling yet as h been off work, will make some calls later in the week

Good ,i dont know if you have had counselling b4 OLC but with me what changed was i really started to live life on my terms,i think i had questioned things like you did today in the past and H could always justify his action so i was left thinking i was being too bossy or needy or something .Counselling helped me see that my instincts were right,even tonite on the phone he was questioning my judgement,i try to only text these days.I can only say from my own experience olc and i still feel i am coming out of the fog ,but i now know no relationship should have been such hard work .I am good enough to be respected in my life ...END OF !

Gah, onelast, he can be an utter twunt can't he?! I guess he was just making a point - "You need me to walk up that slope coz you can't, so I'm not going to haha!" Twunt. (Oh, did I say that already )
I'm really glad you've got Patience with you, and am VERY looking forward to hearing from you after you've read Bancroft. Take good care of yourself, sweetheart. x

Can i also just add that it is only v recently that i could hear the truth said about my X.I was never as brave as you OLC to start my own thread .If i had written down all the facts back in January I knew what everyone would have said about him,but i wanted to protect him,i was his wife.WTF!He abused my love for him hugely ,even as i write this i think but was it really that bad ,YES PATIENCE IT WAS!!I know the truth dont get me wrong but apart from the obvious violence that i would excuse because he had witnessed it in his own childhood i never really saw the rest he always had an excuse,life just happened and i got sad .When i pointed out his selfish behaviour he just threatened me or called me a weirdo ,more often a fucking weirdo .I am only really able now to write this without being ashamed ,i know other women would think ,well why did you stay then ,but thats only their ignorance because if they had been thru it then they would know the answer ,because i loved him ,because he had ground down my self esteem.I remember talking to WA prob x5 in the last 5yrs and each time i could hear what they were saying but i still thought i could make it workit wasnt as bad as all that,i saw it as my failure if we split up ,but it will always be my biggest triumph that i walked away ,no matter what else i achieve in my life [tears streaming down my face now] ,without MN i could not have coped ,there will always be someone to talk to whatever you decide to do OLC x

Bit weepy then sorryjust meant you will work it out for yourself when your time is right and counsellor will help you see it clearer x

Patience ,, " coming out of the fog " , thats exactly right , one of the most horrific painfull things ive ever had to do.
I often wonder how i lived in such a state of self denial. Good on you for getting rid , its no easy task.

Onelastchance , sorry if youve heard this before , but have you thought about keeping a journal ? Mine kept me sane and was a stark reminder . When we recall these shit incidants, or shit things they say, we can minimise it and say " the other week ect ".
We can also decide that actually, we were making a fuss over nothing and rewrite history , because it suits us to do so.

This is even easier to do if youve got little kids because theres always some distraction. In mine i wrote exactly what had happened, exactly who said what, and exactly how i FELT. I was usually in tears as i was writing in it.

The months went by , and i would re read what i had written and i began to see that it wasnt the other week, it wasnt just sometimes and i wasnt creating a fuss , he was being a shit to me in some form every fucking day. My intention was to burn it , i never did, ive still got it and occasionally if i ever feel a bit wobbly or wonder if it couldve been differant, i take it out and flick through those tear stained pages and thank fuck i got rid.

You're right, Patience & Dignified. When you hear about other women's past bad relationships, it sounds as though we were having such a terrible time that we knew enough was enough and ended it. It's not like that, though. If you'd spoken to me then, I'd have been going "He's a bit awkward sometimes, but we love each other," and "Yeah, he's moody but I just laugh at him/let him get on with it/ etc." And I really believed I was so insecure, possessive, incompetent, moody, blah, blah, that my 'moods' (feelings) were damaging my relationship.

It's not until you're out of it that you can clear your head enough to see what was really happening. Even then, it's difficult to get your head around the fact that somebody has abused your love. I have thrown my diaries away now; it's a very good idea to write things down. Your diaries keep you strong and sensible.

I think this is the only place i have found that i could talk like this ,so uplifting to share.I think i used the road to recovery thread as my journal ,the fact my name was "Maybees " when i first started posting OLC,gives you an idea of how confused i was and how much i still wanted it to work Anyway I've got a date on Sunday LOL!First date in 16yrs ,obviously my twunt radar is on full alert but just seeing it as a bit of a distraction and all part of moving on.Just will be nice to enjoy the company but still be able to celebrate and respect being me ,I dont think i will be ready for a relationship til next Spring ,so takin it v slow x
Ps when you get the Lundy Book OLC feel free to discuss the bits you recognise in your life,i looked at it today pages 66-68 ish ,just makes me smile everytime ,because he could make me believe he was entitled to the life style he had created .WTF?

Good on you Patience , i hope you have a loveley time.

Thanks ,how was your day OLC ?

It's beeb ok thanks, Patience.

Ds started school and dh took day off to come with us. Dh has been fine today, very helpful

Glad you had a good day !

feeling so low and confused today. Is it realy worth breaking up our home when dh can be ok, esp if i just accept him as he is?

Only you can answer that, onelastchance. If, by changing the way you react to him and setting clear boundaries, you can live with the bad bits for the sake of the rest, well and good. Nobody's perfect etc. But keeping a home together shouldn't be about one person putting up with a load of shit because they're the only one prepared to be reasonable. If one person in a family is thoroughly miserable, that is not a good family. Remember there are children watching and learning from their parents' dynamic, and if they learn that being a bully, shouting, storming out of the house etc is the way for an adult to behave - or that putting up and shutting up for a quiet life is the best they can hope for out of marriage - what do you think they will grow up to do themselves?

I think by the sound of it you want to carry on trying the exercises, counselling, talking through etc for a while yet. Sometimes it doesn't seem that bad, other times it clearly is but you hope it may change. You're also aware that there are things you're doing that aren't ideal, but at least you are trying to address them (shock horror, you're only human!). It's worrying, though, that your DH doesn't seem to be engaging in his part in the right spirit (he's focussed on what you are doing instead of what he is doing), and that he's still getting an unhealthy kick out of your current helplessness. He really has a lot of work to do on himself, but right now it doesn't look like he's ready to do it. It would be a terrible shame - for him, mainly - if he never "got it" until it was too late, until your love and respect for him were completely eroded.