found out about 2nd affair. It's all over now.

[helicopterview]

Oh my god. I can't believe this has happened, and life has unraveled so fast. From 12 years of marriage and 2 kids to nothing in 3 months.

I posted 3 months ago about a late night text alerting me to an OW. Emotional affair, didn't seem to love her, and we started therapy.

We were talking through the issues preceding, the lack of affection which had built up and all that. I was quite willing to change, and share the blame.

Went away as a family, but felt I was doing all the running, starting the conversations, buying the books to discuss. He was passive and pessimistic. Didn't feel right still. I'd have expected more input from him.

I knew there had been a specific time when my eldest dc (who's 10 now) was a newborn, when things changed. I couldn't put my finger on what went wrong.

So in therapy I had been blaming myself, had newborn, lack of attention to dh, all the usual.

One day on holiday, though, I went through his entire sent box (he'd deleted the inbox) and found a message from him to a girl saying he wasn't able to talk on the phone because I was in the room.

Confronted him, he admitted it was a 2 year affair with his p.a, when we had newborn, he thought about leaving, decided to stay but never stopped having feelings for her.

Nothing going on now, and the evidence was from years ago. But he lied, and lied, and lied. Listened to me blaming myself.

Too much betrayal.

Within days it was all over. Told parents, told kids, planned where he'll move to.

He's gone from being passive and sullen to all action. This is what he wanted all along, but was too weak to ask for.

I have been terrified of the future (I'm 42) cried more tears than I would have thought humanly possible, and now, 2 weeks later, am starting to feel incredibly angry.

Help me see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks for advice. Back in London now, so going to get on the case.
Yes, other friends have said just keep it business-like from now on with h. Difficult to do. Got upset today at thought that I won't get to see my children every day, through no fault of my own, because they are staying with h. He wants not Tuesday and Friday nights as previously discussed, but also a Saturday night every fortnight.

I know one weekend in 2 is the norm, but I hardly ever spend time away from the kids, and it feels horrible. Maybe once or twice a year we'd go away and leave them with grandparents. So this is really hard for me.

I guess it had occurred to me that he'd not get to see them as much as before, but today it hit me that nor would I.

I think he may be pushing it because initially he resisted Friday nights (that being the big night out with mates/girls)even though it was requested by our youngest because it's football club night, and he wanted his dad to watch. I had to insist.

Heli- I understand how upsetting that would be. But please remember that you will be able to use those two nights for you. You can use those nights to recharge, socialise, gym, sort stuff out for the children, relax.....

Looking at my friends who divorced I think that it is likely that it will be normal. Very pleased to hear that you are trying exercise and trying to reduce ADs. Training is easier if you sign up for a class, get a personal instructor or sign up for a 10k or half marathon. Really good way to focus.

Whenever DW goes to see Errol Douglas, she seems to come back very happy. They can't be that far from you.

Get him out.

I am five months in, on finding out my other half had been having an affair with a very good friend. He wants her in his life and her kids, they will be happy , she is everything I am not and he and her have been acting like two lovestruck teenagers with little real thought for kids etc.

However, after me finding out - much like you did. He went and got a flat for him and a separate one for her, stayed there for five days and is now back in the house sleeping in spare room but acting like life is normal except for the odd day when he tells me he is going to see her. So here we are five months down the line - she has not moved out and neither has he - despite everything being in place. I can not afford to move out - house adapted for dc with disability and he is not going. Have looked at so many places but need lifts, hoists, support rails etc etc etc Took four years to get this house DC friendly.

It is hard to move on, when the man you loved and trusted acts like everything is normal in front of your kids and then goes and shags another woman a few nights per fortnight and does everything as if he is still in a relationship with you except the loving bit

Not sure what either of them are playing at - but get him out.

That's really tough on you helicopter - to have that realisation that you will see your kids less. I feel very sad for you at that.

I can imagine that the first night/weekend away will be the hardest. Maybe the anticipation of it coming up will be worse than the actual time away from your kids, and that if you plan something good to do for yourself, something that you usually wouldn't get time to do, it might ease it somewhat. I hope you don't have any kids birthdays or family gatherings coming up in the next few weeks to worry about.

How you feeling today? Is there any way you can delay your return to work to give yourself some space?

hi Heli- hope that you are as okay as can be

Helicopter. First, so sorry to read what you are going through. I hope it helps to hear from so many of us who have also gone through this that with time it all gets better. You will get used to spending time apart from you DC and I hope will find this good time when you can do many things that previously you did not have time for. I certainly found it incredibly difficult when DC first used to stay with their father but almost 2 years on and at the end of another summmer holiday when DC were away for 2 weeks, I have to stay that I have had a lovely time both with and without the DC. The one thing of which I am really proud of post split is respecting that my DCs' relationship with their father is not mine to meddle with (he is a wonderful father, just turned out to be a lousy partner) and that means ensuring they have time with both parents. I still get fed up with the endless packing/upacking and the need to make arrangements water tight, but those are small things when everyone ends up happy.

Heli I cried buckets the first time I had to pack a suitcase for my poor DCs and send them off to their father's. It was a really shattering experience for us all. None of them wanted to go. They would have been ok with spending the odd weekend afternoon with him but he knew what he was 'entitled to' (he used the word entitled in out mediation sessions) and therefore he took his pound of flesh. The DCs asked and asked, WHY -- and with the word 'entitled' ringing in my ears, I couldn't honestly answer that it was because daddy loved them and really wanted to spend time with them because they were special for him as well as for me. I don't badmouth him to them, but I don't make up positive stuff about him either.

I would seriously advise you to vigorously oppose overnight visitation during the school week, and argue to restrict it to weekend nights, every other weekend, with at most an afternoon or a dinnertime visit during the week each week. That is pretty standard and very reasonable given the life the children have known up to now with you. Breaking up the school week with one night here, two or three nights there is a horrible hassle for the DCs with homework and school stuff to remember like gym kits and art supplies to remember and get washed, homework to do, very discombobulating on a practical level, and also on an emotional level as they need to feel they are 'at home' in one discrete place.

Hi Heli, sad to hear that this realisation has hit you hard. Just shows how much you love your dc.

Heli/mathanxiety

Hope I did not sound too 'casual' about my DC going to exP. It was very hard at the beginning but I knew making it work was best for DC, who really did want to stay with their father (and get a great deal from the relationship).

ExP and I have worked out arrangements ourselves, no mediation or legal action necessary, and always with best interests of DC at heart. From time to time we revisit arrangements and tinker with them, including DC in discussion.

ExP does have them one night during the school week - in order to do this he has rented a flat near school (which is not terribly convenient for him), leaves work early on that night, gets homework done, washes and irons uniform etc. We liaise closely to ensure that all kit is in the right place at the right time.

I cannot fault exP on his parenting and love for his DC, and in the early days of our separation when I was very angry and raw, I am glad that I did not try and exact any kind of revenge through frustrating his contact with the DC.

I have no idea whether my now amicable situation is exceptional, but where both parents wish it and step up to the mark, co-parenting can work. I think important to recognise that arrangements set up in the early stage can always be revised, depending on how DC react and not parental feelings of entitlement.

Didn't come across casual to me...but as trying to re-assure and give a perspective

I'm glad. MN is so often full of continued difficulty post separation, I just wanted to air my experience. I remain the primary carer to my DC but they regularly stay with their father; they want it, he wants it and I cannot fault him on that front. It would have been punitive and vindictive on my part to have hindered this. It is very difficult at the start, as I know the OP is feeling, but no parent owns their children and if both parents can continue to contribute positively to the upbringing of their DC, then I fundamentally believe the DC will be happier. I also don't think a parent can feel fully involved if they don't have their DC to stay, be involved with school, etc.

Helicopter, just hope with time you will find the times your DC are with their father easier. It's very early days.

Thanks undermyskin

It is very early days. Less than a month since I found out about his affair early in our marriage. Right now I feel he is taking everything away from me, my family life, my future, my security, my kids.

He wants to jump straight to living down the road, kids popping in and out, constructive co-parenting.

I need time and distance.

Helicopter, again I'm so sorry you are going through this; finding out about betrayal really cuts to the core, and with separation the map for the future appears to be torn up.

I had all your feelings and felt I had no control in the loss of the things that were so important to me, esp. the end of family life. I hope I in no way come across as some kind of saint because after finding out about my exP's affair after 17 years together, I am not proud of some of the things I did and said. I fought very hard for what was best for DC AND me. In all the mess and rage I did however manage to put the children first, and that included doing my bit to ensure their great relationship with their father continued even though they would always be based with me.

Of course it is easy for me to write all this now, as I am nearly 2 years on from where you are. In addition to your list, a fear I had was that DC would be left 'fatherless' or his interest in them would wane. He very much stepped up to the mark; hard as it may be to acknowledge, he was leaving me, not the DC. Through working together in best interests of DC, we have also found a way to sort out finances etc in a very amicable way, and it does feel that some security has been regained, as well as a sense of family, as we present a united front on birthdays, Christmas, school events.

Of course you need time. I'm not sure I would have been happy about exP living down the road - more distance necessary. My exP lives about a mile away (we do occasionally bump into each other at the station) which means the DC can walk over, but we do not have a ringside view into each other's, now separate, lives. Do tell him to get off your immediate patch.

No doubt he has had all of this at the back of his mind for a good while, whereas it's all new for you and for the DCs -- you're all supposed to hop to it anyway, because it's all set up in his head regardless of the wrench it will be for everyone else.

I agree with trying to get a bit more physical distance between the two of you, and suggest maybe a period where the new routine for the children can be gradually introduced, instead of tossing everyone in at the deep end.

(Undermyskin, not a bit casual)

Hi Heli- I fully understand and hopefully, you don't think that we are unsympathetic. Warmest wishes

Hello TDaDa

Thanks for all your constructive advice over the last few days.

I think I have turned a corner.

Eating again, sleeping again, no more ADs.

Just now dreading seeing h again, He's been away for work, back Sunday, and Monday we have a meeting.

My solicitor has advised me not to talk about money with him.

I'm sure you still feel very up and down, some days better than others, some parts of days better than others. But fantastic you for keeping it all together, even if it just feels like holding it together for the DC.

Do you need to meet him on Monday? You may want some clarity (and to tell him he needs to set himself up further away from family home) but if you need more time before further discussion of future arrangements, he can wait until you are ready.

Try and focus instead on having a good weekend with DC - it's lovely sunny London weather.

Oh yes, your solicitor is so right wrt talking about money, and I suggest the same about visitation too.

It's important not to make any casual verbal agreements or commitments.

Where are you planning on meeting next Monday? I would advise meeting somewhere outside of your home. It may not be as comfortable, but that's sort of the point. Take notes as you talk. It will give you time to think about answers, and breathe a little.

OK. But I suspect he wants to talk about visitation. There's nothing much else left for us to talk about.

I have sent him an email saying how uncomfortable I am with him living 2 streets away, sharing the same local shops, cafes, and walking past my window every day to go to work.

Maybe I should ask him what he expects us to discuss on Monday.

If he thinks you should discuss visitation, you can always say no, that you are still looking at the options, trying to figure out what might be best for the children and would prefer to keep your thoughts to yourself at this time -- no point thinking out loud, etc.

You are not in any way bound to toe any sort of line here wrt his agenda. You can just say you don't want to discuss a particular item. He can't make you talk.

But to keep him from pressing you or feeling too comfortable or 'at home', have the talk away from home.

Maybe concentrate on his living arrangements, what he can do to put a bit of real distance between the two of you, how much better it would be for the sake of privacy for both of you? This is a bother to you right now and see if you can get him engaged on that topic.

The idea of setting an agreed agenda beforehand sounds like a good one to me. That way you avoid a face to face confrontation over what gets talked about, maybe even cancel out the need for a meeting in the first place, if you find there's nothing you could talk about.

Heli- nice of you to say that but I think that you are the one to be praised here for your strength and balance

Hi heli,

Thinking of you. those first meetings after a split are definatley the worst. I used to feel physically sick. the only advice I can offer is to hold them on neutral ground if you can and if he gets unreasonable or you get upset you can simply get up and leave. I used to do this frequently with my ex. i would just put the phone down or ask him to leave the moment he was disrespectful. He hated it but soon got the message. Unfortunatley you cant control where he lives. In the long term him being close by might not be a bad thing as it will help with the children but make it clear it absolutely is not a charter for him to 'pop by' when he wants to.

Good luck

good and sensitive advice Elastamum

Agree.

Of course you cannot dictate where he moves to, but a bit more distance I think is a very reasonable request. It is inevitably a highly charged situation and two streets away and a daily walk past just would not be comfortable for you.

Hi Heli- reading your post again.... "I think I have turned a corner. Eating again, sleeping again, no more ADs."

...this is fantastic progress. It is so important to you continue to take control .....ADs are only a stop gap and leave you vulnerable so really really well done.