Do all men think like this about 'older' women - warning controversial!

[runoutofnameideas]

DH and I have been having problems. Long story but all of the spark has gone.

Anyway, as part of a wider discussion, he was talking a lot about how men are pre-programmed to go for younger women and that as women get old we have to be attractive in other ways etc. etc. That women of 40 or 45 can't typically compete with younger ones of say 25 and if it were on physical appearance alone, men would go for younger(other than a few exceptions - I suppose e.g. demi moore)

On and on. He said stuff like and that's why women BBC presenters get dropped at 50 and so many older men have younger wives and it's all a biological imperative as men traditionally are still be fertile but women aren't.

He reckons most middle aged men don't think about their wives whilst having sex with them and are really thinking about someone else.

He says he thinks it's important to tell the truth and lots of people must be going through the motions when they don't really fancy each other.

I can sort of (very sadly) see his point but it is so horrid to think this is true and I'm destined to have had it shortly.

I am exhausted and so sad he thinks like this.
Opinions please!

Last sentence should read, is that he is.

You and your dh sound lovely together myred.
Somehow somewhere along the way (maybe due to all the over-analysing) I think sex and making love have not gone together for dh and therein lies part of the problem.

It makes sense that if you see it as sex alone with your wife not making love, you will be more bothered about the purely aesthetic side of things.

Sorry, I didn't mean it as a 'look how great my marriage is' post. Was just trying to give you another male POV.

I think you're right in that raw passion will always dwindle but when you love someone that develops and matures into something else. It seems like that hasn't happened with your DH.

Previous to this were you both happy with your sex life? Or did it always have to be highly charged and exciting?

I didn't think you did and it didn't come across that way at all - he just sounds really sweet and you sound nice together.

Was never highly charged and exciting really....

runout, seriously love.

Why have this when you could have this instead?

Seriously, you could!

This man of yours had better have some pretty impressive redeeming qualities

OP if this is the case, to quote you, "What I really don't get is that I don't even think I look worse than I used to. I hardly have any wrinkles and people often think I'm in my early thirties not late thirties. OK I have duff old lady legs and not a great body but hey." then I think the only reason he doesn't fancy you any more is because he wants variety or novelty. and that's not your fault. He's trying to make it your fault though, saying you've aged. But as you say, you hardly have at all.

my parents appear to have a very happy marriage, and i remember once asking my dad if, when he looked at my mum, he saw her as she is now or as she was when they met..he said a bit of both, which i thought was pretty sweet :)

Yep I think you're right.

It's hard to know what to do.

A. can we salvage this if his view is so firm.
B. can we change the other things wrong with the relationship
C. if not, then what given Ds is involved too.

Well, here's my two cents worth.

a. you can't change his mind. If this is what he thinks, and refuses to budge on it, there's nothing you can do
b. Actually, I was discussing this with a friend this weekend. Loooong story, but it was about grounds for divorce and one (in Judaism) is if the husband looks at another woman and thinks she's prettier than his wife. The reason why this is accepted as grounds for divorce is because:

• your wife/husband should be (subjectively) the best or the most suited to you. Objectively they may not be, but subjectively you should be able to think that there is no-one, not even a pert 23 year old, who is better for you
• if the marriage gets to that point, where he's seriously looking elsewhere, there are some deep underlying issues.

BUT - they can be addressed if both parties are willing to do so. If one is and the other isn't, then there's not much that can be done

A lot of men have very distorted views of themselves - generally they look in the mirror and think they're Jake Gyllenhaal (was going to use Brad Pitt, but he's looking a bit ropey these days) and that any woman would want them. The reality is often very different, and it may just be that you DH needs a huge dose of reality

Well Abs he is quite handsome I suppose and looks a good five or seven years younger than he is. And he has a good job.

Of course he'd be a lot less well-off if he did dump me so maybe that would reduce the older man attraction!

Hmmm I wonder what is going on in his mind.

I think there's also an issue around him wanting more kids and me not (long story and I do have good reason). Would be nice and convenient for him to find himself a young new wife to do that.

well, OP, I seriously hope you bin him after his "truthful" and "honest" comments

sometimes people just tell you all you need to know don't they ?

btw, not any excuse at all for such out'n'out rudeness and plain bad manners....but is he on the autistic spectrum do you think ?

or is his twattery of purely a selfish and fuckwitted nature ?

Imho he does show some autistic spectrum behaviours. Like this whole thing about assuming that if he wouldn't mind being told this sort of thing, I wouldn't either.

Can't just 'bin' him as we have been together a long time and there is ds so much to consider.

If your husband is so "rational", lets talk about biological imperitives. Biology would suggest that it doesn't matter what a man looks like, it is his intelligence and his ability to provide a safe and secure place for a woman to bear children in. Hence your dh's wealthy friends with much younger wives who are apparently so gagging for sex with their balding, pot bellied wrinkly dh's I am guessing that many of these older men aren't much to look at, but again, I bet alot of those young wives aren't thinking about their husbands when they have sex, they are thinking about the sexy 25 year old gardener but making a calculated sex for security "contract" with the best provider.

Or, it could be that biology gives us the bare threads of human social interactions and that attraction and sex are part of a very complex narrative that can not be explained by age or wealth or intelligence or a hunter gatherer mentality alone. Your husband sounds a bit thick to me.

Sorryfor appalling grammar. Crying baby here....

sounds like my 'rational' exh who I supect may have aspergers. (It was suggested that he might be by a female friend of his)

He would make similar commments about everything it's as if he had to distance himself and depersonalise everything.

I took the comments personally because I couldn't help thinking that he thought like that about me. His general world view was very bleak and he seemed to have a hard time enjoying personal things.

We didn't have much of a physical relationship either.

By the time we split my self esteem and body image was about zero. When we first split i consciously worked on getting that back up to a reasonable level.

But as an older woman and since we split I have had no shortage of men of all ages fancying me. (that's not meant to sound arrogant btw).

And sex I have had since split has been the best ever.

Clearly I do not have the same body or face as in my twenties but otoh I am still attractive, haven't aged too badly and I can find some things I like about my body.

I also made vow never to discuss negative things about my body with any man. That's worked really well.

I wonder where 'normal but not very emotional' man ends and aspergers/ autistic starts?

It's a continuum though isn't it.

He doesn't have a particularly bleak view of most things and is very easy going and optimistic generally. But he does have issues around assuming that he behaves and feels (or doesn't feel more often than not) X and therefore either I shouldn't feel X either or if I do I don't need any support.

Not sure if that makes sense?!

a continuum of selfishness, ego and self-absorption maybe

a lack of empathy too

not really somebody I would like to share my life with...but he ain't my husband, he's yours

My X was on the spectrum, Asperger's Syndrome, I'd bet a kidney on it I'm so sure.

I didn't really realise this until after I left him, and then later, our son was dx as being on the spectrum.

Now looking back, some of his odd behaviours I can excuse completely, like his lack of empathy for my emotions but he was very unfair in a lot of ways, prioritising all his needs over mine. This might be typical of somebody with AS, but when I pointed it out to him, he didn't want to know/care. He just wanted me to put up and shut up, and when I did put up and shut up (because I was dconfused and depressed) he honestly thought things were going great between us.

but a partner on the spectrum...... that's a whole other thread! a whole other board !

But, to get back to this thread, I agree with AF.

If being rational is the OP's husband's strong point, then sit down with him and tell him that his making hurtful comments make OP think less of him, love him less, feel resentful... That is the way the World works, if somebody isn't nice to you, you don't like them as much as you used to..

runoutofnameideas, does your husband find it hard to believe you're tired if he's not tired, hungry if he's not hungry..

I was being greedy if I was hungry when my x wasn't hungry, and lazy if I was tired when he wasn't tired. I had to be understanding, flexible, accommodating etc if he were hungry or tired though.

Don't be so sensitive please smallwhitecat.

I think that as Asperger's was only even recognised in 1984 and wasn't routinely picked up until early 90s then there are an awful lot of (mostly) men who went through school and life without any support whatsoever. If you had had a relationship with somebody with Asperger Syndrome you would know that it is hard. There is a big difference between being a selfish cruel twat and having AS, but there can be some overlap from the perspective of the person who is living with the man.

There is a personality disorder called Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and one of the reasons why a person (usually a man though statistically) might develop NPD is untreated, unrecognised and unsupported Asperger Syndrome.

I have spent three years obsessively reading up on this subject (NPD).

I don't worry that my son will grow up to have NPD though, as he will be surrounded by people who urderstand autism, and he will be taught accordingly and supported when he needs support. I will make sure that he is taught to consider other people's feelings even if it's something that doesn't occur to him easily or naturally.

To answer your question - no way do most men think like this! My partner, even in his 20s, fancied women in their 40s and 50s more than women of his own age. He much prefers older women and always has done.

This is a very dated and quite shallow way of thinking. Hugh Hefner (the playboy founder) was once asked about his preference for younger and younger women and he was quoted as saying: "I don't want to wake up with a 50 year old woman next to me". What a creep! Now, I wonder what those young girls see in him - it certainly isn't his enlightened way of thinking - follow the money folks!

Smallwhite - I appreciate where you're coming from. It wasn't the comments per se really that we were saying is a bit ASD but the underlying behaviour of showing a lack of empathy to the way they can make someone feel. And they did ask if there were any other potential signs.

Ok, there is some biological/instinctive/natural whatever reasoning behind the fact that most men respond sexually, even if only with a fleeting thought, to a woman who looks healthy and fertile. The same as most women have a fleeting sexual response to a man who is a) tall or b) doing something physically impressive.

However, if we acted on all our impulses all the time, we'd never get anything done for biting chunks out of each other, shitting on the floor and staring vacantly everytime a fly went past. The low-level biological/instinctive stuff is not actually that important.

THe main thing is, people who make a big deal out of the importance of being 'honest' are not actually bothered about being honest at all. They are self-righteoulsy demanding the right to be rude and hurtful. ANd should be roundly mocked and told to fuck off.