💰 Archers thread #121: Brookfield digs for treasure, Alice & Philip try to bury the truth. Dish the dirt here if you dig The Archers. PS Send nudes.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you long to hear Pip again, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish and @PersephonePromotesEquanimity for the title suggestions.

Current events: as @Bailey0703 has astutely spotted, it's Anti-Slavery Day tomorrow - could this herald the beginning of the end of the horses storyline? I do hope so. Horrible stuff, but what a blow for Kirsty. They're laying on the dramatic irony with trowel at the moment.

What do we think will happen to Alice and Chris? I can't see this pregnancy going to term and ending well. I don't think the marriage will survive either, giving Brian a chance to revisit his classic line about having to treat this as Alice's starter marriage.

Will Elizabeth end up on a date with Vince Casey? That would put the cat among the pigeons at Lower Loxley.

Over to you ...

it is in fact his baby, as well as hers

So does he get to dictate she should have/not have an abortion? How far do his rights over her body extend simply because she is pregnant?

Heaven forfend that he might be worried about the damage his ghastly wife is doing to their baby by her stupidity and selfishness. I haven't a shred of sympathy for her.

Would you say the same if she had leukaemia or another cancer? Or is it just psychiatric problems which merit no sympathy and for which the patient is entirely to blame (which would put you in the majority of the population)?

Hello, lurkers! Please do stick around. It's lovely to get new perspectives on our common obsession .

I renew my call for suggestions for the next thread title. No new episodes until Monday but I suspect this week discussion might continue over the weekend, so I'll keep an eye on how this thread is filling up.

Thanks for replying to that comment, @C8H10N4O2. I was lost for words. I get most people are pretty ignorant about the reality of severe alcoholism, but how anyone could listen to that episode and still think it is now a choice for Alice is concerning. Although, as a few alcoholics have told me, their behaviour can become very selfish, as their priority is, by definition, their addiction.

I think Alice married Chris to break away from the Aldridge’s idea of how to live (Jenny’ perfect dinners for Brian and the shoot, concealing the roiling hurt from Brian’s betrayal that culminated in Ruarie joining the family; being Brian’s favourite....).

Chris was sexy, kind and uncomplicated back in the day. They had fun and he was proving himself as a successful farrier, which connects him to the local horse world which is her world.

They married very young, and after ten years they still care about each other a lot even if they now want different things.

@CheetasOnFajitas I presume a doctor would avoid pointing out that the harm may already have been done as that could lead to extremely bad outcomes for mother and baby.

I also assume it is true that more damage can yet be done. What is she, about 10 weeks or something?

I am sympathetic to Alice. Alcoholism is vile and society is bloody obsessed with alcohol. I hate it and I bloody love going to the pub. (But can manage without the booze happily these days thank god). Lost plenty of friends to booze and I always think ‘there but for the Grace go I’. Anyway, I want them to win. Chris is flawed and a bit clueless but we all have massive blind spots. He is very loyal isn’t he? And that will go a long way. I think Susan will be a source of support but they will try not to tell anyone for ages.

Poor JD.
Remember the stress she had when she thought that Lexi might run off with Xander? She would be off the scale if the Chryalis was (1) taken away by SS and (2) because of who/what Alice is.

Good long-term storylining, though. The Chrysalis will return in about 20 years.

[quote Augustbreeze]@CheetasOnFajitas I presume a doctor would avoid pointing out that the harm may already have been done as that could lead to extremely bad outcomes for mother and baby.

I also assume it is true that more damage can yet be done. What is she, about 10 weeks or something?[/quote]
16 weeks I thought, as she said at the post-bleed scan that her last scan had been 4 weeks ago and you don’t normally get a routine one till 12 weeks.

Perhaps @Prestissimo can tell us whether it would be normal for a GP to withhold factual information about a patient’s or her baby’s health, in case it was too difficult for them to deal with from a mental health perspective?

I just think that this is going down the route of Ambridge Health Fairy intervening and the child being born with zero ill effects from constant heavy drinking during and beyond the first trimester. They may just focus on Alice’s long term recovery and her ongoing struggles with it.

I renew my call for suggestions for the next thread title

Will the next thread take us through Xmas? In which case whilst being devoid of good ideas can I suggest pincking something annoyingly cheerful? I could do with it this year!

Just imagine the compare and contrast with Emma - with her NVQs and chicken factory job and mobile home - if the child of Alice, (née Aldridge, out of Archer) were to be taken away, while the Horrobin/Grundy offspring remain safely at home.

Ambridge would fall.

They married very young, and after ten years they still care about each other a lot even if they now want different things

That could have been an interesting story in its own right. One of my siblings went through the same. They came together when still young but ten years later approaching their 30s had completely different futures in mind. It was painful at the the time but 20 years on both recognise they are happier with their current lives and relationships than if they had felt locked together or one had just bent themselves out of shape to fit the other.

I think this is common enough story that it would resonate with a lot of listeners. The idea of a broken Alice feeling permanently indebted to Chris when his life aspirations are part of the problem is horribly sad.

can I suggest picking something annoyingly cheerful?

Wassail to the Ambridge Not-A-Panto where Freddie gets nine LESSONS in directing from CAROLe Lynda.

(You realise that the next thread after will definitely not be cheerful. It will be the ten year anniversary of The Scream )

I don’t see what is supposed to be wrong with Chris. He’s built up his business and is well respected and liked. He is happy.

He didn’t interfere with Alice going away to university.

What does Alice want to do? She hasn’t enjoyed or thrived in her jobs as an engineer. There is no point blaming Chris for that.

Chris wanting a family is hardly a crime...

Alice is presumably going to carry on drinking at least until she gets to rehab, and there's no guarantee that that will work. So that poor baby will have had a hefty alcohol intake for at least 18 weeks or so during the period when most its development was happening. I really hope that this isn't a case where the Ambridge health fairy descends and provides a miraculous escape from FASD, as it would be seriously unrealistic to suggest that the baby won't have been affected.

I don’t think you can what’s normal @CheetasOnFajitas because GPs are all differentd we have our own approach to conversations - hence patients tend to gravitate to a dr whose style they like/suits them. I don’t think I would lecture them on the damage done to date - what’s the point really? I think if asked directly “Will my baby be okay if I stop drinking now” I would have to say that we simply don’t know. The range of FAS is such a wide spectrum and we don’t understand why some women drink more and have apparently unscathed children whereas for others no alcohol is safe. I think though that I would focus more on the fact that we can’t change what is done but we can change what happens now. An unhappy, unhealthy mother leads to an unhappy and unhealthy child, so let’s focus on getting Alice well (physically and mentally) and put the correct support in place to deal with whatever happens down the road.

I was a bit disappointed that Dr Korai (?sp) presented the children’s services referral almost as a threat (that’s how it sounded to me anyway). It’s basically mandatory in this situation and it feels like a shame that it wasn’t portrayed more positively: a way to get Alice and her family the support they need now and in the future, whatever the outcome. It’s a shame the BBC have reinforced negative impressions of Social Services. Given the amount of family Alice and Chris have locally it’s vanishingly unlikely that they would have no contact at all with the baby even if she continues drinking. Much more likely that there would be supervised access with the baby living with wider family (and even that’s unlikely assuming she stays with Chris and he steps up to look after the baby).

For the next thread how about Deck the Hall with Eddie, Freddie; Tis the Season to be jolly (but orange juice for you, Alice)
Or something like that...

I guess miscarriage is still a possibility, caused either directly or indirectly by the alcohol consumption?

I wonder if, given time, and depending on outcomes, this might end with Emmer and Alice coming closer together.

Not initially though.

Oh definitely not initially.

Emmur would have to bite her tongue a lot I think. Actually so would Alice, thinking about it

But maybe they would develop a new respect for each other if they could work out how not to kill each other first

Eddie’s turkeys, Freddie’s show, village green with light’s aglow, Stir Up Sunday, Deck the Hall, Merry Christmas one and all - with apologies to Bert Fry

He is happy

That is kind of the point isn't it? Chris has everything he ever wanted and his marrriage to Alice made it possible for him to buy the business. He hasn't noticed how unhappy Alice has often been or how frustrated at work and the one time she considered a job further a field he made it clear just how annoyed he was.

Alice's ambitions as a bright girl in engineering have been sacrificed for Chris's ambitions to run his own business five minutes from the rest of his family and have a wife to have and look after his childrern.

I don't think he has a clue just how much Alice has given up to be with him.

@C8H10N4O2

Heaven forfend that he might be worried about the damage his ghastly wife is doing to their baby by her stupidity and selfishness. I haven't a shred of sympathy for her.

Would you say the same if she had leukaemia or another cancer? Or is it just psychiatric problems which merit no sympathy and for which the patient is entirely to blame (which would put you in the majority of the population)?

If she had leukemia etc she would seek treatment. Alice has been a drunk for a long time now. She brought this on herself, I have no sympathy for her.

But maybe they would develop a new respect for each other if they could work out how not to kill each other first

I've been wondering that. Emma has always been one of the more complex characters and all the better for that. She could end up being the one who recognises a psychiatric condition as a actual illness rather than a character defect and realise just how much impact its probably had on their relationship over the years.

@Darker

I don’t see what is supposed to be wrong with Chris. He’s built up his business and is well respected and liked. He is happy.

He didn’t interfere with Alice going away to university.

What does Alice want to do? She hasn’t enjoyed or thrived in her jobs as an engineer. There is no point blaming Chris for that.

Chris wanting a family is hardly a crime...

I don't either. Alice has always been a spoilt, selfish brat.