💰 Archers thread #121: Brookfield digs for treasure, Alice & Philip try to bury the truth. Dish the dirt here if you dig The Archers. PS Send nudes.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you long to hear Pip again, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish and @PersephonePromotesEquanimity for the title suggestions.

Current events: as @Bailey0703 has astutely spotted, it's Anti-Slavery Day tomorrow - could this herald the beginning of the end of the horses storyline? I do hope so. Horrible stuff, but what a blow for Kirsty. They're laying on the dramatic irony with trowel at the moment.

What do we think will happen to Alice and Chris? I can't see this pregnancy going to term and ending well. I don't think the marriage will survive either, giving Brian a chance to revisit his classic line about having to treat this as Alice's starter marriage.

Will Elizabeth end up on a date with Vince Casey? That would put the cat among the pigeons at Lower Loxley.

Over to you ...

Wonders of the internet. Just saw this on Twitter.

@BBCRadio4
not sure where to report this, but the ad-supported version of #TheArchers, in the US, ends with an advert for an alcohol delivery service. Given today's episode this is inappropriate.

Just after the PSA it goes "Imagine if you could shop the shelves of all your local liquor stores at the same time ...". WTF

Oops.

@BeardieWeirdie

Anybody prepared to down a bottle of mouthwash regardless of the impact on their body and that of their unwanted baby absolutely needs some psychiatric help. What was she thinking? Illness or not, I’ll never get over my disgust at Alice for this.

From extensive experience with family, there is no “psychiatric help” for those in active alcoholism. Just withdrawal (usually at home and with just some tranquillisers) and self-help groups. Even if you go private, it’s not hugely different. There are a few drugs that can help with relapse, such as Acamprosate, that can be prescribed by GP. No idea how this would be handled in pregnancy so I googled and these NHS guidelines make grim reading. www2.worcsacute.nhs.uk/EasysiteWeb/getresource.axd?AssetID=10983&type=full&servicetype=Attachment

Only mention of a psychiatrist is in the case of coexisting additional mental health problems. No mention of psychologist intervention.

Alice is consumed with shame. It’s what has prevented her from talking to anyone about what’s going on. And of course drinking more to muffle those feelings...

Alice is consumed with shame

Poor girl. I love Alice and I will always have an extra-soft spot for her now we have seen her at rock bottom. Choppy waters ahead but she’ll come through this eventually and I will be thrilled for her when she has a new husband on her arm and looks back with mild affection for Chris but realises the tough times are behind her. I don’t tend to look for Cinderella-style happy endings but after last night’s ugly scenes I think I’m allowed to...

Wow! Just listened.

Where's Amy Franks when you need her!

Agree tough listening.

I’m a GP though and I fear for tonight’s episode. As mentioned above it us really hard to get help with this. I really hope the GP doesn’t prescribe magic detox pills in the way that we are so often expected to. This kind of community detox needs regular and intense monitoring and support, of the kind that we just don’t have the resources or expertise to provide. An inpatient detox is in the realms of unicorn drippings and hens teeth unless you’re prepared to pay, which of course Brian’s and Jennifer might be able/willing to do if Alice can get past her shame to ask them.

I hate these consultations - on the one hand a desperate and ashamed alcoholic who has often been dragged along and on the other a frightened and angry relative who demands that “something must be done”. Very hard for all involved.

My other thought was how much she must have been drinking to have the DTs so badly last night. I’m not surprised Chris had no idea what to do. As pp said the poor baby must be pickled

Phew - that was a hard listen. To those criticising Chris’s reaction, I have to say I wouldn’t have known what to do either or realised the extent of Alice’s addiction. I think he genuinely didn’t see it - Emma saw it because she and Ed saw (and heard) Alice blind drunk at work. Chris didn’t see it and wasn’t looking for it. to everyone on here who has experience of this. So sad to hear your real life experiences. Chris has no experience of this - I knew you liked a drink says it all really. How do you distinguish between the students my dd was living with last year who drank litres of spirits every night before going out to the extent that often they were too drunk to go out and someone with a problem like Alice? I guess the real clue was that Chris wasn’t even aware she was drinking - she was at the stage of just drinking to feel normal (though obviously also still getting drunk - just out of sight of Chris). What should he have done in that situation? Called an ambulance? Maybe called his parents - or her parents? I think he hadn’t quite got his head round it himself. I think he was talking about caring about the baby to start with because he thought that might get through to Alice, but by the end you could see that he really cared about her. He really loves her, but he’s a simple soul - she helped set him up in business in Ambridge, he’s never picked up on her dissatisfaction because she’s never told him and someone like Chris really needs to be told!

Urggh such a hard listen. I felt very sorry for Alice. I can't imagine being in the grip of such an addiction. It's an illness and should be treated as such rather than a lifestyle choice.

I was pregnant at the same time as one of my closest friends. She had a drink 2-3 times a week throughout her pregnancy to help keep her "on an even keel" as she had a stressful job. Our DC are now both 7, happy and healthy kids. Her daughter was born prematurely and severely underweight which she attributes to the drinking (we do have teetotal friend who gave birth at 28 weeks..) She told me a while ago that the guilt will never leave her.

Thanks for the reality check, @Prestissimo. I’ve been that relative, I’m afraid. And it must be so hard to be in your position. As you say adequate help simply isn’t there.

What’s the point of living in a village, next door to your in-laws, if you can’t summon support when a crisis starts unfolding under your nose.

Brine and JD no longer live next door, and neither does Skate.
I think you would try to resolve this between you as a couple - they've been married a long time.
I'm only going by what I think I would do - I certainly wouldn't have phoned my in-laws.
Given that Kristiffur is close to his parents, he would have phoned his parents or Emma.

Please God no don't tell Susan!

Would be an excellent starting point for Susan to do a feature (without mention of Alice, obvs) on lockdown alcoholism on her radio show.

without mention of Alice. This is beyond Susan's abilities

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g
Tim Stimpson wrote last night's episode.

That explains that, then. He's never been too strong on coherence: he seems to me to write for television rather than radio, and forget that the audience can't see what is clear in his head.

Darker
Please God no don't tell Susan!

Seconded!

Emma too would be no help at all at this point. I hope Chris has the sense to realise this. Alice would resent her so completely that her being involved would be very counterproductive indeed.

Given Alice's relationship with her in-laws it would be so damaging for Chris to tell them. I hope he manages to see this, and to seek the support of JD and Brine.

Last night was harrowing to listen to - more Trainspotting than a gentle tale of everyday country life! Having dipped out over the monologue era I was a bit taken aback!

Susan is going to be mortified that her daughter-in-law, the one who makes her “practically family” with Jenny and Brian, is a common drunk with zero regard for her unborn child. The shame! There is no bloody way she’ll be bringing it up on her radio show.

more Trainspotting than a gentle tale of everyday country life!

But it never was 'gentle' ... We've had drug addiction, rape, suicide, arson, racially motivated attack, death by tractor, eviction, homelessness, miscarriage, plus the modern day slavery still being played out. There's a theft pretty much every week. Infidelity. (Not to speak of the constant animal murder.)

Does it seem less brutal because it's in a rural setting?

@theThreeofWeevils

Controlling, then. And because we are good little listeners, we now all know controlling = abusive, right? Ringing to make her excuses, saying that he wasn't going to leave her alone, saying that a healthy baby was all that matters...

Ahh no I don't agree I'm pretty well versed in controlling behaviour and that wasn't it. That was a man out of his depth and scared who didn't know what she was going to do next. He's scared of telling anyone and scared of leaving her on her own. She told him to lock her in the bathroom. He's clueless and dim witted but not abusive.

When my XP tried to get me sectioned I rang the emergency services and said we didn't need them. I wanted to try and fix things between ourselves. I didn't realise at the time that he'd been trying to persuade me I had a drink problem, just that I did at times drink too much. He was a heavy drinker.

The police turned up anyway and he was arrested for assault.

My wonderful DP had been a monster maybe all along and I had no idea, other than he was nasty in an argument and that I had quickly learnt to bite my tongue. I have a feeling that what had happened was to some extent preplanned.

My experience is nearer the Rob & Helen SL, but I would have had no idea of how to try to get someone sectioned, and I wonder if XP had done it before, or if he'd just seen it on tv.

I haven't told people IRL, other than the police and a counsellor, what happened. I am deeply ashamed that I was fooled. I am still healing but realise that I am better off without him.

I can understand how people have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.

The BBC Sounds episode does not have a warning.

@PoulePouletteEternellement

more Trainspotting than a gentle tale of everyday country life!

But it never was 'gentle' ... We've had drug addiction, rape, suicide, arson, racially motivated attack, death by tractor, eviction, homelessness, miscarriage, plus the modern day slavery still being played out. There's a theft pretty much every week. Infidelity. (Not to speak of the constant animal murder.)

Does it seem less brutal because it's in a rural setting?

No - not because it's rural, but because for some of us it is an escape. I like the 'gently inconsequential' storylines because Lord knows real life has enough horror to offer us.

Can't disagree about real life!

If anything, I'd like the writers to bring in more of the wider world. Ambridge does still seem remarkably cloistered.

He's clueless and dim witted
We can definitely agree on that. (Loud cries of "Oh no he isn't!")
I would react very badly to being told I was not going to be left alone foe a minute.

I like it's little bubble though. When all else is chaos, the slow rhythm of ploughing, harvest, lambing, milking, village shows etc is a soothing background to the grim realities of life!!

Last night was a bit a jolt out of that! I like that they have done this with naice middle class Alice though, rather than seeking to pretend that addiction is something which only happens to 'people not like that' (the serf role, fulfilled nicely by the Grundys, Jazza etc)

That was a harrowing listen. I still think she should have an termination. I can remember someone laughing, when I couldn’t understand why there were empty mouthwash bottles behind a local derelict building. There were mouthwash bottles and needles.