💰 Archers thread #121: Brookfield digs for treasure, Alice & Philip try to bury the truth. Dish the dirt here if you dig The Archers. PS Send nudes.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you long to hear Pip again, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish and @PersephonePromotesEquanimity for the title suggestions.

Current events: as @Bailey0703 has astutely spotted, it's Anti-Slavery Day tomorrow - could this herald the beginning of the end of the horses storyline? I do hope so. Horrible stuff, but what a blow for Kirsty. They're laying on the dramatic irony with trowel at the moment.

What do we think will happen to Alice and Chris? I can't see this pregnancy going to term and ending well. I don't think the marriage will survive either, giving Brian a chance to revisit his classic line about having to treat this as Alice's starter marriage.

Will Elizabeth end up on a date with Vince Casey? That would put the cat among the pigeons at Lower Loxley.

Over to you ...

Actually though - listening again - who actually has a bathroom you can lock from the outside???

TwitterTwatterofTinyMinds
I like that they have done this with naice middle class Alice though, rather than seeking to pretend that addiction is something which only happens to 'people not like that' (the serf role, fulfilled nicely by the Grundys, Jazza etc)

Previous people on TA with an alcohol problem have been Phil's elder brother Jack Archer (who died of kidney disease as a result of his alcohol habit) and ex-cop George Barford, married to Phil's younger sister Christine, who was in recovery from over-use of alcohol the whole time he was in the programme. Other people who always seem to have a glass in their hand (whisky in one case, gin in the other) are lower-class Brian and lower-class Lilian. And then there is is often drunken Kate.

@Prestissimo. Professional question for you. How big a role do genetics /hereditary tendencies play in alcoholism? I know they definitely increase the tendency- can they skip a generation? Alice’s grandfather was an alcoholic and Lilian certainly likes a drink, but JD is fine and Jack Archer died before Alice was born. So she didn’t grow up with heavy drinking- but is she still strongly predisposed to it? At what point would ant predisposition fade, IYSWIM?

Genuinely curious, thx.

*any

@PoulePouletteEternellement

Actually though - listening again - who actually has a bathroom you can lock from the outside???

Presumably a cottage with old doors and a lock and key.

How horrific, @GotBeatenUp. I’m glad you are beginning to heal.

This thread is filling up fast. Title suggestions?

A lock with a key can be locked from either side.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

TwitterTwatterofTinyMinds I like that they have done this with naice middle class Alice though, rather than seeking to pretend that addiction is something which only happens to 'people not like that' (the serf role, fulfilled nicely by the Grundys, Jazza etc)

Previous people on TA with an alcohol problem have been Phil's elder brother Jack Archer (who died of kidney disease as a result of his alcohol habit) and ex-cop George Barford, married to Phil's younger sister Christine, who was in recovery from over-use of alcohol the whole time he was in the programme. Other people who always seem to have a glass in their hand (whisky in one case, gin in the other) are lower-class Brian and lower-class Lilian. And then there is is often drunken Kate.

Point taken. I seem to have strayed into AIBU by mistake, so will hop back out.

Interesting comments.

I found it harrowing to listen to and wished Chris had immediately called an ambulance

But I'm also reflecting that in all my 50 odd years I've never once called 999, despite dc with serious medical conditions and aged relatives etc. I suspect I'd react like Chris- trying to 'fix' the immediate problem while trying to think about the more medium term issue.

And I personally can't bear the terminology of a woman being a 'vessel'.

DIdn't Ed have a preference for vodka to accompany his class A drugs when he lost out in the love triangle/paternity of George and started rough sleeping?

Ambridge has had its fair share of drug and alcohol storylines.

I hope somebody comes to the rescue tonight otherwise it is going to feel like a very long "Archers free" time until Monday night (when I expect they'll start banging on about something completely different).

I personally can't bear the terminology of a woman being a 'vessel'

The terminology is less of a problem than the mindset which sees her as such. Chris would never call Alice that, but it seemed to be how he was thinking.
I wonder how long it will take him to work out that this foetus has no future?

Presumably a cottage with old doors and a lock and key.

Yeah, but no, but ...

I'm old enough to remember Jenny doing up Alice's cottage - in the late 20th century. A lock and key on a bathroom door would have been an odd choice.

(And I'm speaking as someone who lived in a 17th century house for several years. Old doors; new bolts. (On the inside.))

I assumed that the midwife who spoke to them by Zoom knew from Alice's notes that she had been drunk when admitted to hospital. She made a point of asking about alcohol intake, to the point that Chris got annoyed and started answering for Alice.

I'm old enough to remember Jenny doing up Alice's cottage - in the late 20th century. A lock and key on a bathroom door would have been an odd choice.

Ah. I haven't got your good memory and, evidently, neither did this episode's writer.

Blimey, that was a very hard listen. I knew Alice was an alcoholic but I hadn't clocked it had got so so out of hand. I know passing out in a ditch should have been a big clue but I hadn't clocked how physically addicted she had become.

Three cottages were converted from agricultural workers' cottages for use as holiday lets in 1986, and one of the points in that storyline was that Jennifer, who was in charge, forgot about getting plumbing installed and it had to be done as a rush job, since she spent most of the "refurbishment" time finding furniture for the cottages, possibly with Nelson's help.

It doesn't seem certain that they even had bathrooms at all before then. I think they'd been standing empty for a while at that point and that was why Brian was happy to give them to her for her to make them useful for something, and maybe the lack of indoor plumbing had something to do with their not having had anyone living in them.

Then later one of them was given to Alice and another to Kate, in a cunning wheeze to avoid inheritance tax, and one was used by Debbie when she was living in Ambridge after her marriage fell apart.

Stimpson, who wrote the episode, joined the programme in June 2003.

Hello, I’ve been reading this chat for years and never commented. Not sure why. But the last episode was so sad and i know it’s a drama but it hit home. I thought it was good to bring up the different drinking between them. Chris - he could drink and it not let it effect him. But Alice and the way her brain is wired and life events the drink took a different hold. It could be for anything- washing hands, eating, sex, gambling. That addiction could hit anyone from any social background. Drink is such a part of society it’s hard to get away from it. I hope they show how hard it is to get help for addiction and how hard it is to overcome.

Welcome @Bozzle .

I found that episode difficult to listen to, but no more or less than Rob and Helen ones. But it felt like a one off. Rob and Helen was very drip drip as she was more and more worn down by him, with some truly awful low points like the rape and the morning after.
It got to the point where I couldn't listen to an episode that was just the two of them.

No I think the midwife they spoke to had no idea, typical NHS communication! She was just asking the standard questions and only persisted because Alice, iirc, hesitated.

But you're right that it will have been recorded by the hosp and one would have thought she should have had some kind of specialist referral - unless she convinced them it had been a one off??

I got the impression from what Chris said that he is furious with her and would have walked out on her, except that he has realised that if he does that then she will inevitably go on a bender and harm the foetus even more. He is gritting his teeth and doing what he (misguidedly) thinks is best for the baby.

In the past I've thought they do sound like a solid couple, although Alice's whiny entitled attitude has made me dislike her.

I also thought it was unlikely that at the first booking in midwife appointment it wouldn't have been on her medical records that she had recently collapsed due to alcohol abuse.

Ah. I haven't got your good memory and, evidently, neither did this episode's writer.

Keri Davies was saying something on Twitter fairly recently to the effect that the archivist's job was less necessary because they could check things via IT and that the responsibilities had been shared out amongst other staff. Sounds like a bit of a recipe for disaster - checking computer records depends on the individual writer and editor actually remembering to check and knowing what to look for, and if responsibilities get shared amongst staff there is that danger that things fall through the cracks. I doubt for one moment that it would occur to anyone who wasn't around at the time to check the background history of the cottages and in particular whether they'd been refurbished before Crysalis took up residence.

I know it was a crisis and all, but it did seem somewhat dim of Chris to lock Alice in the bathroom without checking first on whether there was anything potentially harmful in there.

@CaptainMyCaptain

I'm old enough to remember Jenny doing up Alice's cottage - in the late 20th century. A lock and key on a bathroom door would have been an odd choice.

Ah. I haven't got your good memory and, evidently, neither did this episode's writer.

Shame. Would have been much more fun if they had locked her in the shed with the meths.

Yes I immediately thought why is she demanding to go into the bathroom, is there an ulterior motive.

Am hesitating to turn on this evening, first time in 31 years....

Welcome, Bozzle!

Ha! Anyone who had nothing better to do than follow my name-changes would know that over half a century of listening and all the years of this thread I have the worst memory in the world for Archers facts. (And just invent stuff to fill the gaps.) I swear AskingQuestionsAllTheTime was put into the world primarily to correct all my imaginary recollections. for you, Asking.

But I do remember the Aldridges(well, Jenny) fussing about those holiday cottages ...

Tonight was great. BOOP!

Just remembered something. Back in a tick ...