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‘Should’ we move out of SW London

211 replies

coco123456789 · 11/05/2021 12:27

We live in a lovely leafy part of South West London. 3 kids and our house has 4 bedrooms so we do technically all fit. The garden is tiny but it is quiet at least. We love where we live but there is such a huge impetus to move because kids ‘need’ more space. Has anyone decided to sit firm and stayed in their little London homes with a growing family? Or has anyone made the move out to Surrey and think that in hindsight they should have stayed? Kids range between 3 and 9.

OP posts:
allycat4 · 12/05/2021 16:49

"Mixed socio-economic" sounds problematic. If you're a crashing snob.

QuantumWeatherButterfly · 12/05/2021 16:58

I feel like I've found my people! We're in SW London, and also sometimes feel like we 'should' move out - but we're staying put. We love our house - there are things about it that are not perfect, but we've worked hard to make it how we want it and it makes me happy. I love the area we're in - close to parks, the river, good transport links, good state schools, it is quiet and leafy, but quick and easy to get into more buzzy, metropolitan areas.

I grew up in a small town in the Midlands, and I've spent time living in the north of England. I have very fond memories of both, but both were equally lacking in terms of diversity, transport and opportunity. i would hate to move back, and DD will benefit much more from growing up here than anywhere else I've lived.

It is hard when so many of my friends from when DD was a baby either have already upped sticks or are planning to do so. It makes me think I must be missing something. But I think it is just a case of different strokes for different folks - and maybe too not really understanding just how big the trade off actually is.

MsTSwift · 12/05/2021 17:04

God moving as far away as Bath whilst remaining working in London is insane. We did this but got jobs locally and left London entirely but were always going to do this and moved when kids babies. The estate agents when we moved all assumed we would be keeping our London jobs though which seemed crazy what an awful quality of life for the poor commuter!

daisypond · 12/05/2021 17:39

If your step to outside London is purely to get a detached house with a garage, that seems insane. Your kids won’t care about that. I wouldn’t care about that, and I’m fully adult. Why would anyone think having a detached house and a garage a particular plus point? Like many Londoners, I’m in terraced housing without a garage. I barely hear a peep out of my neighbours and I’d have no use at all for a garage.

WombatChocolate · 12/05/2021 18:11

Some of this depends on your level of confidence....confidence in your children and in yourself and confidence to cope in the world.

Some people live in London but don't really like it. They don't like diversity and certainly don't like diversity for their children, although they probably won't ever say that. They feel much safer and more comfortable in a more homogenous environment and will make quite a lot of sacrifices in order to get that. Some are happy to have diversity when children are young, but as they get older, fear perceived issues at secondary level in terms of disruption at school, and issues with giving children more independence in a city.

So some people will move a distance away which will then involve a long commute for one adult, and the loss of city living (which perhaps they have tired of or never really liked, especially since they had children) and the burbs or the Home Counties look attractive for offering bigger houses, more green space and perhaps better schooling, and some areas will offer less diversity in racial terms, and they might imagine less in socio-economic too.

In fact, if you're going to state school, most schools have a fairly wide range in terms of socio-economic diversity, especially in more rural areas which have larger catchment areas. All areas have social housing and most secondaries have larger catchments than primary schools and a range of children. There will be a few that are significantly lacking diversity, but most have it if they are standard Comos admitting in distance. There can be less diversity within Church schools and in Grammars too, but your standard Comp with standard admissions criteria will have children from a range of backgrounds. If people are paying fees, that will be less the case. And lots of those moving out want Comps. Part if the moving out is to get a big house which still needs a big mortgage and fees aren't on the cards. Many don't want Grammar areas like Bucks or Kent because the secondary moderns aren't so good and there are no guarantees of a grammar place. Lots want a 'leafy comp' which they will get into on distance. The 'leafy' ones will be less 'mixed' but most leafy areas are bordered by less leafy ones and the children from there will go to the school too. And hang around in the places all the kids hang around.

Perhaps people choose to move out too, as a way to delay indepdence of teens. Kids in London travel by tube or bus to school, walk around the city and go out young to places in easy reach. Kids in the Home Counties might be more likely to need lifts to school or to meet their friends at weekends and this means more parental control for longer. Of course, it depends and lots of people live in towns in the Home Counties which offer more opportunities for a level of independence.

If you worry your child won't manage in a school with a range of behaviours, but is likely to struggle and be in lower sets with kids who might be disruptive, or who might get bullied, or who won't manage to get a bit streetwise, then you might see diversity as a negative and move to escape it. If as an adult you feel uncomfortable about different cultures or religions or lifestyles or financial expectations and keen for your children to mix with people like you, you might not feel confident about their future in London.

But other people are confident for themselves and their kids growing up in London and see a myriad of positives. They like to mix with a range of people themesleves and perhaps are involved in local communities where a range of people come together. They might have enjoyed meeting different families via primary school and feel their kids have benefitted from it. They might feel their kids will thrive in the schools becaue they are doing well academically and will continue to do so. They might feel confident that the values shown at home will be enough to ensure a good work ethic and not getting in with 'bad sorts' and they might have belief in their kids' characters already and can see that they are resilient and gain from a bit if a challenge. So they might stay.

I get why people go when their accommodation is very cramped and they can't afford bigger where they are living. But when one person or both have a local journey to work and moving will change at least one adults life I terms of the commute and the house is already perfectly adequate, I understand it far less, unless it is for some of these lack of confidence reasons.

nongnangning · 12/05/2021 18:23

[quote coco123456789]@nongnangning ha! We did live in north London pre kids and it’s definitely our spiritual home! Moved sw when had kids for shorter commute and to be near my parents for childcare[/quote]
@coco123456789 LOL, OK well there you may have some of your answer. What if you had stayed in north London? Where would your kids be going to school? Probably the equivalent of the good state school you have near you in SW London?

coco123456789 · 12/05/2021 18:54

@WombatChocolate thanks for that, it’s so helpful. It’s important for us that our children have experience of the real world. Learn how to apply themselves and be a bit ambitious and self starting rather than complacent and spoon fed. I love them having independence - the eldest can already walk to the paper shop alone. It’s so good for their confidence. One of my friends seems to actively enjoy the fact her son is a bit babied and laughs at the fact he wouldn’t know how to get to the post box or make a cheese sandwich (he’s 11!)

OP posts:
lemonsyellow · 12/05/2021 18:58

@WombatChocolate
Great post!

WildLadyLucy · 12/05/2021 19:01

Children need space, but teenagers (you'll have some of them soon) need public transport and places to go. I'd hang on in there in SW London if you can (unless schooling is an issue)

ilovewinterpansies · 12/05/2021 19:34

@WombatChocolate thank you. You've articulated beautifully why I will never leave London. Horses for courses but for us it's just out of the question for the reasons you've set out.

MsTSwift · 12/05/2021 20:18

Ha your teenagers will thank you for staying put! We moved to small city so is enough for them they would be bored stiff in a village as was I. I know some outdoorsy teens may love country life but mine are not like that!

ParentOfOne · 12/05/2021 20:32

[quote iminthegarden]@ParentOfOne when you talk about places outside cities being less diverse this is of course fair enough, but when you start throwing in skin colour, brexit, Tory, UKIP in a negative context you are making small-minded sweeping generalisations which, of course, are going to offend. We all get your point, you just made it rather clumsily.[/quote]
@iminthegarden ??? Did I touch a nerve?

Please explain to me where I would have generalised what?

I didn't paint everyone with the same brush; I didn't say that everyone in Surrey or more rural areas is a Tory or a Brexiteer, and I most certainly did not criticise those positions - I may have my views but you will notice I did NOT get into the merits of Brexit etc.

Very banally, I simply stated a rather banal, undeniable fact, i.e. that in many more rural areas there tends to be less diversity, in terms of both race and political opinions. For reference, I copy below what I had written. I'd be curious what a less clumsy and not small-minded way to convey the same point would have been.

"Are you and your family white, pro-Brexit, Tory or UKIP voting Brits? If you aren't, depending on where exactly you move, be ready for an environment with much less diversity.

Of course this doesn't mean that everyone in Surrey is an avid Brexiteer - but the fact that there is less diversity (in terms of both race and political opinions) is a rather clear fact."

ParentOfOne · 12/05/2021 20:33

@wombatchocolate , amazing post! WombatChocolate for president!

ParentOfOne · 12/05/2021 20:45

OP, the only reason I can think for a garage is if one wants to buy a very expensive sportscar or motorcycle :) Has your partner been receiving Ducati leaflets in the post? :)

Oblomov21 · 12/05/2021 20:50

Don't do it OP. You are mad. You won't get anything better in Surrey and you'll miss the buzz. Big mistake.

UpTheJunktion · 12/05/2021 20:55

And some of us ARE the diversity, or have kids who are the diversity.

There is so much truth in Wombats post - don't be surprised if some of us prefer not to move to the favoured haunts of those who move to avoid racial and cultural diversity. It may not be noticeable to those who are not affected, but it is to us.

Workingfromhomeishell · 12/05/2021 20:59

We moved out of London 7 years ago (surrey)...and back into London 4 years ago. Also 3 kids. Moved as aspirations for a bigger garden etc etc.

Ended up with kids we had to ferry around all the time as nothing really walkable distance , no spontaneous playdates / bumping into friends in the park etc . Everything requiring parental input.

Babysitters au pairs etc all difficult

Once the novelty of a "country pub" had worn off nowhere decent to eat or go out.

If garden is your main driver- honestly most kids arent interested in being in the garden after a certain age.

I'd stay. 100%

BIWI · 12/05/2021 21:06

Other than having a small garden, I'm not really sure what your problem is @coco123456789!

You live in a place you love, the local amenities/facilities are good, the state schools are outstanding, and they are ethically/demographically diverse.

Your DH doesn't have to travel for hours to get to work, and your DC can easily get to parks etc locally.

Sounds like your only issue is the size of your garden - unless you're really not happy with sending your DC to an ethnically/demographically mixed school?

It's undoubtedly true that if you move further out, you'll get a bigger house/garden - but at what cost? Not just the financial cost of a commute to work, but also the toll that takes on you physically - as well as, potentially, on your relationship.

Sounds to me like you're falling for the 'keep up with the Jones's' fallacy!

coco123456789 · 12/05/2021 21:24

I guess re the school it’s hard to be influenced by the fact that other people think it’s not for them. Maybe it will be good, maybe it won’t, but it seems crazy to move on the assumption it won’t be good. It’s hard when people dismiss a school that is outstanding just because they don’t like the look of the kids. I think like many schools it was known for years as not being great but has improved in recent years. We want our kids to be bright, challenged, interested in the world, but in a real way, not in a ‘read about it in a book’ kind of way.

OP posts:
Jackiebrambles · 12/05/2021 21:26

Thank you for posting this, I’ve really enjoyed this thread. We are in SE London and have seen a lot of people move away over the last year or so and it has made us wobble a bit.

But we are staying put, both feet in, we’re sticking with our small house and looking into an extension. Our community is brilliant and we’ve put down great roots within it - know all the shop owners, neighbours, can walk everywhere and be in central London very quickly. Our kids are so happy here too, and are not bothered by our pokey garden as we have 4 lovely parks all within easy walking distance. Stay in London! Grin

MargaretFraggle · 12/05/2021 21:28

The best way to confirm how a school is doing is look at their actual results. Schools near me which had a bad reputation have totally turned around since my DD started YR in 2014 with comparable results to the 'good' school which is our catchment.

Seefoodwaffle · 12/05/2021 21:46

Rather than Surrey i'd do zone 5 London for more house, more nature but still proximity to London with own high street, still some diversity, red TFL buses etc. I also prefer overline trains to tubes and the crowdedness of it all.

Personally I'd be moving out of London entirely once my DC are grown up. I love the city, but I feel too old for it and I'm not even 40.

Seefoodwaffle · 12/05/2021 21:51

I usually look at A level results when comparing schools. I know it's not just academics, but I dont have a good read on DC so finding both a suitable area, home and school (for each child if you have more than 1) is mind boggling.

Rollercoaster1920 · 12/05/2021 21:51

In your situation I think I would stay and see how secondary goes. The class and year group can make a massive difference either way. You could always move later.

There are a lot of posts about people not moving because of a lack of diversity, but does anyone actively move FOR diversity? Is that racial, economic, nationality or class? I suspect most don't want to be the only non white or foreign in the area.
I commented earlier about polarisation of rich and poor in London which worries me. I don't want to be the only middle-off in an area!

Embracelife · 12/05/2021 22:20
  • t’s hard when people dismiss a school that is outstanding just because they don’t like the look of the kids --

It s only hard if you cannot think for yourself
What is the look they don't like? Is it rational?
You keep talking about "people" who are not you
Make your own decision
Will those kids "they " do not like the look of be in the school when your kids go there? How will they impact your kids?