Is this naughty behaviour?

[Mordekain]

I’m getting regular reports from 4yo DS’s school that he’s being badly behaved. For example he:

Chased another child with scissors going snip snip (yes this was naughty)

Roared like a dinosaur at the other children and didn’t stop when he was told to (is this really naughty?)

Threw a teddy bear at another child.

Sticks his face right in other kids faces and pulls a silly expression.

Gets frustrated when he struggles to change his clothes for PE and gets upset and shouts instead of just calmly asking for help.

Gets upset when asked to stop doing a task he’s enjoying or tidy up.

Honestly most of this just sounds like normal 4yo behaviour to me. Am I being too soft? Or are they whinging about nothing?

Sounds quite rude and unmannerly, but boys will be boys eh?

I loathe the expression 'boys will be boys'

I assumed @Weepachu was being sarcastic!

It does sound to me that a lot of the problem comes from not socialising as the op finds it difficult herself. She has only just mentioned this. This obviously makes it much more difficult for her child to mix if she really finds it very difficult herself. It seems that her partner or parents perhaps need to help by taking him places and chatting to others in the park etc. It is not just a case of saying she is failing as a parent if as it sounds she herself is perhaps autistic or on the spectrum. It is only now our daughter is well into adulthood that we have looked back and realise she is on the spectrum so maybe op hasn't realised properly her self.
However she definitely needs to encourage dressing. Perhaps pretend to make it a race and see if he can get a sock on before she has put hers on etc.

So do I!

Affirmative 😊

Teachers tend to err on the positive side when describing a child’s bad behaviour to the parents - it’s not an easy thing to do.

I mean using your common sense - presumably you’d be happy if DS came home and said another child threw toys at him then roared in his face and refused to stop even though nobody liked it? You’d tell DS that was okay? If not then it’s not acceptable, is it?

It’s bad behaviour. It’s naughty at 2 or 4 or 15. It’s not cute or endearing or ‘just 4 year old behaviour.’ It’s just naughty and annoying and I’d be trying to support the school to stop him hurting other children and misbehaving.

Also you massively need to review your thinking here. I’m in a group with some other autistic parents - some of the children you honestly wouldn’t even know they were autistic if you just met them briefly, they present like clever, well-spoken children in their age group. Others are non verbal and incontinent at the same age. And everywhere in between. Saying ‘naughty isn’t autistic’ isn’t helpful, because being unable to follow normal behavioural expectations can definitely be a signifier. Just because you don’t count toothpicks on the floor or love trains doesn’t mean you’re not autistic.

Do you have any friends locally you could meet up with?
No.

Does he go with you if you meet a friend for coffee or whatever?
I don’t do this because I don’t have anyone I could ask to meet me.

He went to nursery though? Surely he was friends with at least one/two of the children there?
I never even saw them other than for a second as their parents whisked them away from the door. Adults weren’t allowed inside because Covid.

Has he never been to a little club/class - gymnastics/toddler music class/swimming lessons/cubs etc?
He went to an art group pre-Covid. It was more like parallel play at that age. After Covid loads had closed down and the remainder were full and have remained so. He’s been on the waiting list for three clubs for over a year and no sign of getting a place any time soon.

You are sending him into your world of solitude. This is not fair. He should be out with his mates; kicking leaves and jumping in puddles.

Where is his Dad and where is your therapist?

I give him as much as I can but I can’t give him friends or a social circle because I don’t have one myself. That’s just how it is. I’d love him to have friends but I can’t provide that because at this age it relies on the parents being friends. I won’t be able to make friends with parents of kids in his class, I’ve never had any friends so I don’t expect that to magically change now.

you've never had any friends ?
why ? not even pals or acquaintances ?
what about school, college, work ?
how did you meet your husband ?

Well you have a cousin with a child? Does she have a group of mum friends she can invite you and your son out with? Any other cousins?

I would love that. But as I said, at this age it relies on me making friends with the other child’s mum, so it ain’t gonna happen. His Dad has some friends at his golf and board games clubs, but none with young kids.

This. Op yes he is naughty and bad behaved. Instead of defending this behavior and encouraging it, why not work on him teaching him what's acceptable and not.

So it's pure laziness on your part. Did you expect the teacher to dress him at school then, along with the 30 other kids in the class? And did it really never occur to you that he might struggle at school when he couldn't do what he wants when he wants?

you've never had any friends ?
No.
why ?
No idea. Nobody has ever wanted to be my friend.

what about school, college, work ?
No. On an average school day I considered myself lucky if I was just ignored and not attacked. At work (librarian) colleagues were more mature so they were civil and mostly ignored me.
how did you meet your husband ?
My elderly neighbour introduced us, he golfs with my husband and thought we’d get along because we’re both “quiet”.

Well that’s just nasty. Being introverted doesn’t mean you can’t have kids. You don’t need to have friends to have kids. And he has a father.

Yeah but you can't be bothered with parenting OP. You arent bothered what he does as long as he is out of your hair (your words not mine) and can't even teach him to get dressed. I used to dress mine on occasion at that age if I was rushing to get to work or whatever but they need to learn to do it themselves for the most part.

You dont seem bothered about how he is behaving at school and used the word "whinging" when school are reporting valid concerns to you.

Would you want your son to have a classmate like him? Chasing round with scissors, getting in faces, throwing things and not listening to the word no? Genuinely? I don't think you would.

A friend from his class maybe?

I think we need to stop being mean now. Op I have a 3 yo and believe me it was a relief seeing a video of Louis pulling faces to Kate and when you come to think of it, they have the best routines, schedules, nannies and education. I read a comment on here earlier, we pile on too much at such a young age and expect so much compared to most countries in the world where most children start school aged 6/7 when they are much more mature and can actually absorb the school life when they are really ready. I would however though, take small steps like take advice from this thread. Start tackling the issue from home. Take control. You're the boss not him. Spend more time tackling the changing clothes, following instructions than playing with him. You don't need to play with him at home. If you tackle these issues now, he will have plenty of time to play properly with his friends. I know sometimes we want peace and quiet and drink that cup of coffee uninterrupted but you need to start bugging him now so he learns to stop bugging his friends and follow instructions.

I'm very gently going to suggest that you yourself might be on the autistic spectrum too.

I can't believe you think this behaviour is acceptable. In a class of 25 children, how would you cope if every child was as rude and badly behaved as yours? You need to learn to discipline your child every time he is rude, naughty or aggressive. Talk to him about why he is misbehaving and how he should behave.