Is this naughty behaviour?

[Mordekain]

I’m getting regular reports from 4yo DS’s school that he’s being badly behaved. For example he:

Chased another child with scissors going snip snip (yes this was naughty)

Roared like a dinosaur at the other children and didn’t stop when he was told to (is this really naughty?)

Threw a teddy bear at another child.

Sticks his face right in other kids faces and pulls a silly expression.

Gets frustrated when he struggles to change his clothes for PE and gets upset and shouts instead of just calmly asking for help.

Gets upset when asked to stop doing a task he’s enjoying or tidy up.

Honestly most of this just sounds like normal 4yo behaviour to me. Am I being too soft? Or are they whinging about nothing?

He’s an only child so he’s pretty much always just done what he wants, for as long as he wants. The only time we really make him stop doing something is bedtime, and he’s always been fine with it.

What happens when it's time to leave the park or he needs to stop what he's doing at home? How does he react?

The PE thing is understandable but he needs to try and remember to ask for help. Maybe talk to him and see what he might be thinking. Is he not asking because he sees others changing without help and doesn't want to be a baby?

I would expect a 4 year old to know no means no and get out of someone's face if they ask. I'd expect him to forget a reasonable distance sometimes when he's excited but a request to stop should be a reminder to him.

The upset at changes can be something that children with autism feel or it can be an immature way to show disappointment. Ime teachers give lots of reminders and cues when things are going to change and what comes next in the routine.

Treating school property with respect is a rule in schools imo. Did the teddy have those hard bead eyes? That could hurt someone. Or was it the class bear who's seen better days so the school wanted it to be handled gently ? It's ok to throw a beanbag during PE but unless the teacher said otherwise, I'd assume that throwing the teddy wouldn't be ok.

Okay, LOADS of posts appeared whilst I was typing my last post, but this stood out to me
He’s an only child so he’s pretty much always just done what he wants, for as long as he wants. The only time we really make him stop doing something is bedtime, and he’s always been fine with it.

Did it not ever occur to you that "always letting him do what he wants" was rather setting up issues for when he is one of 30 dc in a class ???

Removing treats and TV isn't going to teach him how to behave. You have to model it and correct any unwanted behaviour at the time by turning the negative behaviour into the positive behaviour that you want. You need to start treating him with the expectations of a 4 year old who goes to school rather than a nursery child.

WRT to Covid, we've found this years reception have come in much better than last years because their preschool years were less disrupted before starting school than the previous cohort. They've had from at least April 2021 without the disruption of national lockdowns.

I'm not seeing the link between being an only child, and being allowed to do what they want, for as long as they want. That sounds more to do with indulgence than being an only child.

My dd is an only, but her activities still had to fit around other people - ie, "We're having dinner in 15 minutes, so you can play for five minutes more, then it's tidy up time." or "We'll have half an hour at the park." then a five minute warning, then home.

I decide the plan, because I am the parent. Yes she free played, but only until I said "Five minutes more, then we are doing/going to x,y,z."

What happens when it's time to leave the park or he needs to stop what he's doing at home? How does he react?
He’s fine with it. Even when I turn the tv off in the middle of a cartoon. I don’t recognise this behaviour they’re describing.

One thing to contemplate is why is he needing help to get changed? Is it because you've always helped him so he's struggling or there is another reason why he can't do it?

When my youngest started school he wasn't the best and getting changed for PE and it was 100% my fault. He was the opposite of my super independent older child and it was easier for me to do most of it for him. It was quickly solved though, a week or so of him doing it all by himself and the PE thing was sorted.

I agree that this behaviour is not helpful in a reception classroom. However I would say that it is the teachers responsibility to teach the child to follow instructions and comply, alongside the parents. Primary school teachers are expected to teach the whole child.

It sounds pretty disruptive doesn't it

Experienced teachers can usually spot the signs of ASD a mile off. Please listen to them. Perhaps make an appointment to talk through things with the schools SENCo and class teacher. Try to go with an open mind as some of your posts come across as very defensive.

One thing to contemplate is why is he needing help to get changed?
Because I tend to help him at home, because I don’t have time to mess around waiting for him to do it himself. I probably should have made him do it.

I'm not seeing the link between being an only child, and being allowed to do what they want, for as long as they want
If he wants to go to the park we go to the park, and we stay till he wants to leave. If he wants to paint we paint till he gets bored. If he wants to play Lego we play Lego. Yes I tell him to stop for dinner and bed but apart from that we rarely have anything on our schedule.

Ok im a bit different from everyone else here , I'm a reception teacher and see this kind of behaviour daily !!!!

Being “naughty” isn’t a sign of autism but difficulty with changing could be (motor coordination is part of the autistic spectrum). Difficulty with stopping an activity can also be a sign of autism. Not knowing how to respond and play with other children can be a sign of autism. Not being able to process someone asking you to stop can be a sign of autism.

it sounds like his home life is very low stress whereas school is highly stressful so if he is autistic it might be more obvious at school.

have an open mind and work with the school.

Try to go with an open mind as some of your posts come across as very defensive
I just don’t see how he can be autistic. He’s verbal and articulate. He knows loads of stuff. He points and shares things. He makes eye contact. He plays normally and doesn’t line up toys. He sleeps normally. His behaviour at home isn’t challenging. I’m not seeing any autistic behaviours. Naughty isn’t autistic.

My DS is 7 and an only. We have had to steer him from always doing what he wants when he wants. Because that is life

You're babying him and letting him have too much license. As a parent you should be facilitating his learning to dress/undress himself- you need to find time for it even if it is a faff... If you're never on a schedule why don't you have time to let him do it himself?

Yet it's misbehaving. Screaming/ roaring in another child's face despite being asked to stop is not nice, everything there, except the frustration about getting changed is poor behaviour

So basically he is never told no or stop. No wonder he's struggling at school. Trying to snip other children with scissors is dangerous.

Yes and many autistic children are verbal and articulate. Presumably you are talking about situations where he is with you in a 1:1 situation mainly at home? Things may be very different in a noisy, busy situation alongside 30 other children. School are flagging up an issue with you. You can't just brush it off because he's not like this at home. It may be that he's just struggling to settle in to new routines but whatever the reason school need to be able to work with you to help him.

They will have a roomful of kids that age and obviously his behaviour is standing out - it is naughty.

As @Kite22 says "Did it not ever occur to you that " always letting him do what he wants" was rather setting up issues for when he is one of 30 dc in a class."

This 💯 🙄

I wouldn’t so much say naughty, especially at 4, but sounds like a lack of boundaries, which is also fairly normal for that age. And it sounds like from what you’ve said there isnt really any boundaries at home, as in he gets to do what he wants and when.

Is there a way to approach it as a teaching moment rather than a punishing moment? So taking time out to talk about boundaries and other peoples personal space etc? Because I would say now is the time for that, as there does come a point, and I couldn’t tell you when, that that behaviour is definitely not acceptable toward others. The school already thinks so now.

You need to start changing behaviours, routines and expectations at home. You're setting yourself up for more issues if you don't.

You need to be making sure he's an independent 4 year old who is school ready.

I have a 4yo boy in reception at the moment. I've had some behaviour challenges with him in the past, but so far, he's doing ok with school. I've worked bloody hard with him to get his behaviour to an acceptable level, after months of him coming home from nursery with updates from the staff saying he had been unkind, upset other children, hitting, tantrums etc. It's been a slog but we are getting there I think now.

Looking at your list of behaviours:

Chased another child with scissors going snip snip (yes this was naughty)
Not only naughty but dangerous, could result in him or another child getting hurt. He needs to understand this is not just naughty, it's dangerous and unacceptable.

Roared like a dinosaur at the other children and didn’t stop when he was told to (is this really naughty?)
Yes it's naughty, he was told to stop and didn't! The child might have been frightened. The roaring might have been disruptive to the class. Not stopping when asked would result in a consequence for bad behaviour here.

Threw a teddy bear at another child.
Throwing is a hard stop for me. Definitely naughty. This would have resulted in DS losing that toy for a set time.

Sticks his face right in other kids faces and pulls a silly expression.
I mean, he's 4 so yes he's going to be silly at times, but taken with everything else it's examples of him upsetting other kids in the class and that's just not great when the teacher is trying to manage 25-30 kids.

Gets frustrated when he struggles to change his clothes for PE and gets upset and shouts instead of just calmly asking for help.
DS does this, I keep telling him to ask for help, and try to model asking for help when I need it, but if he's asked to stop shouting and offered help, and still keeps doing it, then that's bad behaviour and might result in a consequence.

Gets upset when asked to stop doing a task he’s enjoying or tidy up.
DS also does this, or just stone cold refuses to help tidy up for example. It usually results in me telling him if he can't be trusted to tidy up and care for his toys then he can't have them to play with. In your case it depends what getting upset looks like, a bit of a grumble and then getting on with it, fine. Throwing a strop and refusing to do what he's asked, not fine, needs a consequence.

I think all those examples are things he can learn not to do, but he needs to be taught that these things are not appropriate behaviour for school time. Dismissing it as 'oh he's 4, it's what they do at 4' isn't helpful for him in learning socially acceptable behaviour.

Learnign socially acceptable behaviour as a 4 year old also isn't about being spoken to once and then taking it on board. It takes constant repeated reminders and interventions, immediate consequences when behaviour isn't good enough, and heaps and heaps of praise and fuss when they do get it right. A one time chat just isn't going to do it, and removing treats and toys after the fact isn't going to work, they're just not old enough to link action from an hour ago and consequence now in their minds.

You need to work with the school, understand their process for managing his behaviours, support those at home, and be consitant and immediate about your expectations.

My cousin has an autistic child and she’s non verbal and unable to play with toys, sometimes violent and she won’t sleep. My son isn’t like that.

I don’t see what I can realistically do other than tell him to stop misbehaving and remove privileges as punishment? I’m not at school, I don’t see him interacting with other kids, I can’t discipline the behaviour as it occurs.