Is this naughty behaviour?

[Mordekain]

I’m getting regular reports from 4yo DS’s school that he’s being badly behaved. For example he:

Chased another child with scissors going snip snip (yes this was naughty)

Roared like a dinosaur at the other children and didn’t stop when he was told to (is this really naughty?)

Threw a teddy bear at another child.

Sticks his face right in other kids faces and pulls a silly expression.

Gets frustrated when he struggles to change his clothes for PE and gets upset and shouts instead of just calmly asking for help.

Gets upset when asked to stop doing a task he’s enjoying or tidy up.

Honestly most of this just sounds like normal 4yo behaviour to me. Am I being too soft? Or are they whinging about nothing?

Nothing. He might whinge a bit but usually he’s fine. That’s what I mean when I say I don’t recognise this behaviour the school is describing.

You don't limit his choice of activity to set times, or make him stop doing something unless he is bored of it
But why would I? He’s being quiet and not bothering anyone. So why would I take away an activity that he’s enjoying and that’s keeping him occupied and out of my hair?

If you e such an open schedule why don't you have time to teach him to dress? I think you've also answered your own question. The reason to ask him to stop and pack away an activity before he has 'finished' is so he learns to do it for when it is necessary like at school. You need to equip your child with the life skills he needs for school, you aren't currently doing that.

Surely sometimes your activities at home aren't child centred ie when you need to go to the shop? Does he think the world revolves around him?

My children were dressing themselves ready for nursery aged 3. You've not helped him by dressing him still. Dressing himself is a basic skill he should be practised by Reception.

If you e such an open schedule why don't you have time to teach him to dress?
Because I can’t be bothered to waste half an hour asking him ten times to put his socks on. I could put them on him in two seconds and not have the hassle.

I'm also not sure you can blame the pandemic on your 4 old not having been around other children?
I have a just turned 4 year old, she was 18 months when the pandemic hit- she went to groups when I was on mat leave and has continued to be around other children at soft play / toddler groups / the library etc. She is also an only child.
You sound like a rather overindulgent mother.
Whether he's like this because he's had no boundaries or because he has SEN, remains to be seen, but I would suggest you start working with the school pretty sharpish before his reputation precedes him

It is your job to teach this. He won't learn, he'll still be naughty at PE time unless you make him do it.

That sounds totally normal to me!

FWIW, my DD is a year older, and goes to a bog standard state primary that happens to have consistently had higher than average numbers of children with neurodiversities/ learning disabilities. At my DD's school there are quite a few children who would do all the things on the list you give, and much more. Earlier this week one of DD's friends, who is a lovely lad and is also non-verbal, bit her. No one thinks he meant any harm (including DD).

I don't think you sound like a bad parent in the slightest. I think people responding to this thread with 'oh but imagine if they all did this at school' type comments are a bit naive - there are plenty of schools where lots of children do act like this, and more, and the teachers and the other children cope just fine, because why wouldn't they?

I would talk to the school about how you can work together to help him settle into the school routine. He is obviously struggling and the teachers have picked up on that. Whether you could have prepared him better is by the by at this point. Fwiw my boy has asd and is fine at home but struggles hugely at school in a class of 30 and would do most of the things on your list. He isn't an only nor does he have the freedom to do things on his schedule.

Are you kidding?

Part of the job of parenting is teaching them to be independent. Of course it's easier to let them have their own way all the time. But then they don't learn that other people have needs and wants. It's easier to dress them than to teach them. But then they don't learn how to dress themselves.

Surely sometimes your activities at home aren't child centred ie when you need to go to the shop?
I very rarely go to the shop, I order online. I don’t watch tv myself so he just watches whatever he wants. At home I either play with him (and we play what he wants) or he plays by himself because I’m busy (again doing what he wants).

To answer you OP, he isn't behaving in a way which is 'normal' for a 4 year old, no. I work with 2-4 year olds and this would be normal for 2-3/ 3.5 but definitely not older than that. I'm intrigued they used the word naughty though as this is definitely a 'banned word' to describe children of that age.

This leaves you with 2 options:

1. He is neuro diverse which is making him struggle behaviorally
2. He hasn't had much social interaction and has few boundaries at home so doesn't know how to follow rules.

I'd go for no.2 after what you said about Covid isolation and only going to nursery 9 months. I think you need to really get going with having kids round and also teaching him what is and isn't acceptable behavior. You've not done him any favors.

I just don’t see why I’d tell him to stop when he’s enjoying it and being no trouble, and we don’t have anything else we need to do or anywhere else we need to be. Should I tell him to stop doing a task just for the hell of it, in order to teach him how to stop when I say so?

Not necessarily for the hell of it but it usually comes up naturally. For example if he’s playing a game but he needs time to get dressed before you go out, you’d tell him he needs to stop the game and go and get dressed. Or you are in the park but need to leave to go food shopping before dinner or to go to visit friends/family whatever. Or time is nearly up in soft play so he needs to put his shoes on.
If he is ND then you could be naturally aware he struggles with transition/being asked to stop so limit the times you are asking him to do this without realising.

He does also need to learn that if he’s asked to stop a task then yes, he needs to stop the task. Surely, it would come up enough times a day naturally though without you having to ask him to stop for no reason.

It’s very common for children with autism to behave very differently at home to school so the fact school is bringing up behaviour you don’t recognise, could mean it’s worth looking into.

A few points:
• you need to help him by creating times where he needs to do something he might not want to e.g. going to a shop that he might not find exciting to get something, visiting another adult for a short time where he has to wait or learning to do something where meeting his needs aren’t the focus.
• Do you expect him to get dressed? To tidy up? To sit quietly without the tv or a tablet? You keep saying ‘he’s 4’ but even immature 4 year olds can understand why they need to follow instructions.
• Could you take him to activities or a group where he has to follow instructions? You could also see for yourself what he’s like with other children.

Im an early years teacher. My heart sinks when the parent says ‘Oh they’re only 3, they’re only 4 etc’ Do we really expect so little of our children? Four year olds aren’t babies and are more than capable of behaving appropriately. I would question whether your child potentially has additional needs or it’s a parenting issue.

He’s an only child so he’s pretty much always just done what he wants, for as long as he wants

I think you have your answer.

Because I can’t be bothered to waste half an hour asking him ten times to put his socks on. I could put them on him in two seconds and not have the hassle.

There's the problem, the teacher can't say it 10 times, give him half an hour or dress him.

I can't believe he never has to stop doing stuff at home. What do you do at weekends? Don't you go out and see people?

I think you need to really get going with having kids round and also teaching him what is and isn't acceptable behavior.
Great. Where am I supposed to acquire kids who can come round and play with him?

You just crack on parenting like this, don't listen any of the advice you're being given. Great idea!

Yes-most of the the behaviour you describe is "naughty" and by the sound of it a lot of it is down to your poor parenting. Why on Earth wouldn't you want to teach your child to dress themselves independently or to share? The teachers are right-your child needs to stop bugging other children!

What do you do at weekends? Don't you go out and see people?
Not really. Like who? My parents go out at weekends so they’re unavailable, and we don’t have any siblings.

Who are his school friends? Could you ask those?

I would also ask on a local FB page if anyone knows of any clubs for children with spaces.

You have to ask him 10 times? That's not typical behaviour.

Im an early years teacher. My heart sinks when the parent says ‘Oh they’re only 3, they’re only 4 etc’ Do we really expect so little of our children?

Do you think it really is to do with expecting so little, though? I am going off on a tangent, but .. 3 or 4 is very little. In many countries, children are not in formal education at 4, or even 5. In many countries, it's not assumed that a 4 year old child will be starting to learn to read. But it's not clear that teaching a child to read early actually helps later outcomes. It's quite possible it only deprives that child of other experiences, and adds to the pressure on them. I think there are many ways in which we expect too much, not too little, of small children.

For years I taught at university, and I can tell you, it's very that a child who's been hothoused at age 3 turns out to have enough resilience to cope well.

Yes.

Your answers are building up more of a picture about why he is behaving as he is.

You have been given lots of great advice on this thread but just keep responding why you can't.

I really don't see how you can say you haven't had time to teach him to dress himself when you apparently have all the time in t world, all day every day, without any single commitment yourself, to allow him to play and never have to stop because of the rest of life going on. If you have so much time, then how is it he can't dress himself ?

You don't have any friends with kids? Any acquaintances from nursery? A reception WhatsApp to ask if anyone fancies meeting at the park?

Wow