very dodgy subject....my friend is picking sex of baby, in the worst way imaginable

[jiggerypop]

A very close friend of mine is preparing to get pregnant for the forth time, she has 3 gorgeous girls and is desperate for a boy, she wanted a boy each time and although she has always wanted 4 kids she intends to find out with an early gender test (2 different types to be as sure as she can be) then a cvs to confirm it, she says she will abort if it is not a boy.
she is a very lovely woman, she is a great mum to her girls but she is so depressed at the thought of never having a son.
I am so sad about her plan, it is heartbreaking because I know she will do it and she will have to live with the guilt if she goes ahead with it. she will do it all privately, I have tried to encourage her to go to look into sex selection abroad but she says she doesn't have the money....

I won't dump her as a friend, I just can't believe what she is about to do

Message withdrawn

agreed trolley. see my post below.

I don't think she's terrible for wanting a little boy, I don't think for a minute that she doesn't love her little girls. I love all my boys fiercely and wouldn't exchange any of them for a little girl but I would like a little girl. I also don't think it would affect her daughters if she had the termination, at least I would hope she would not tell her daughters of the pregnancy at all, until she was sure she was going through with it.
But to deliberately get pregnant, knowing that there was a 50/50 chance that you would be terminating the pregnancy just seems appalling to me and I would question her state of mind. And surely legalising gender selection for families where there is at least one child of the opposite gender in a family has to be better than this scenario. It seems so wrong that a wealthy couple can travel to the US for this purpose while this woman feels like termination is the only option open to her.

well, I have had a very long talk with her, told her about this thread, which was a bit hard to do, but she did apreciate why I felt the need to do so. we ended up going round and around and around in circles but in the end I backed down because she has made up her mind, she will start trying next month using any and every method of ttc a boy, she tells me that her dh is willing to have another child but that he is totaly unaware of what she has planned. she is aware that it mght be one of the hardest things she will ever have to do, but she said that since she worked out that this was possible, she has had a feeling of calm that she has not experienced for a long time because her saddness was so overpowering at the prospect at not having a son that it was affecting her everyday, and everytime she saw a mother with a son.
she said that she is aware that things might not work out but feels that this is her best chance.
she completely understands why I am struggling so much with it, as she is my best friend, my concern is over her wellbeing which will be affected by going through with it. I am very sad at the idea of creating a life to potentially abort, but mainly my concerns are for her wellbeing and the need for her gorgeous girls to have a well and strong mother.
I am a bit of a regular on here but name changed in order to protect my friend, (we have a mutual friend on here)
I am very greatful for the wonderful support that you lot have given me on this. I really got what I needed from posting. sorry it was a difficult topic.
I will keep you updated.

I think there are some wider issues here that she needs to talk through with someone. That someone might not even be you.

I just hope that it's a boy, and if it isn't, that she changes her mind. Her hurt certainly sounds genuine. She must be having a really tough time.

sorry haven't read all the posts so may have been answered already
BUT no doctor will agree to the abortion on those grounds...does she realise that?
hopefully she will feel different about aborting when she is pregnant. fingers crossed for a boy!

I think that what she is planning is frankly disgusting and i am appalled.

words fail me,. Spoilt, selfish, brat. She may well be depressed, but that does not condone what she is planning to do. You need to talk to her about it. Try to rationalise that it is a human life she would be taking - use the example of one of her current daughters - would she get rid of one of them?

But, alas, I think if she still insists in going through with this I would need to cut ties, and explain to her that I was not willing sit by and watch it happen. The other option would be to tell her husband, but I would probably rather walk away - the end. Note, this would apply even if the baby turned out to be a boy.

This takes the abortion debate to a whole new level.

p.S. My sister had 3 girsl then a boy. My mum had 5 girls though...

JP, did you suggest she had some sort of counselling?

Did you ask her what she'd do if she did have a boy who wasn't "perfect" in some way?

I know a few people who would love that unwanted little girl.................gosh words fail me. I would love a girl next time having already got a gorgeous ds but whilst that would be a preference, I will love what I get regardless. I would just feel blessed to be able to get pregnant again......

JP, you are a good friend and I can see you are trying your hardest to support her at what is clearly a difficult time for her mentally. your heart is in the right place. However I do think you need to consider how you woudl feel if she did abort a girl. Could you look her in the eye afterwards, or her husband? And what if he found out? What if something went wrong with the abortion and she became ill?

And ues, hunker has raised a very good question, what if she does have a boy, who is less than 'perfect' - what then?

hi i havent read through the whole thread but i thought i would add something.
i was really to read about the OPs friend who is so desperate she would be prepared to abort her baby if it is the worng flavour!! however i do see her view (sort of) as similar to my aunties. my auntie got preg and had decided she wanted a girl. she went on to have a little boy and couldnt get over her feeling and described it as if he 'wasnt her child' she gave him up for adoption at 6 weeks old as she couldnt bond with him (she was later diagnosed with PND) and felt resentful that he was there in place of her daughter she went on to have 3 more abortions privately due to the fact that tests revealed her to be carrying another boy each time after about 6 years she got preg with a girl and bled heavily throughout the preg (her DD is now 12) she has since had a DS but has kept him as that was her desired gender for that preg. sometimes it is just down to personal preference intermingled with a form of obsession/depression as was the case with my auntie.
i am in no way condoning the OPs friends decision process and i am pro-choice but only if there is no other option available. she may feel differently when actually faced with the reality of aborting a baby for such selfish reasons. how would she feel if she got her much longed for boy and then miscarried due to the tests performed?? she doesnt sound as if she has thought the whole thing through properly to me i hope she makes a mature properly thought out decision or if not fails to get preg.(sorry if that sounds harsh)
xx ei xx

totally horrified by this (and am completely pro-choice). I'm currently pg with my 1st and we've decided not to find out if it's a boy or girl because we will love it and treat it just the same whatever its gender. I may be missing something here as a first-timer (please do put me straight folks with kids already) but why do people care so much what they have? what is really the difference between a boy baby and a girl baby, especially at the beginning? I may be totally unusual about this (in fact I am sure I am having spoken to friends) but I just don't understand why people mind either way so long as he / she is healthy and happy.

Slightly off-topic but... we all know from our own experience that not all girls are "girlie" and vice versa - all people have different personalities which are partly determined by gender but not entirely eg: lots of women have more traditionally "male" characteristics (ambition, assertiveness, confidence etc) and lots of men have more "female" characteristics (caring, gentle, nurturing etc). These are just facets of a person's personality and not necessarily determined by their gender. As a previous poster pointed out (sorry can't find it now), she may have a boy but he may not be what she expects in terms of his "boyish-ness" - what kind of special characteristics does she expect in a boy baby that she would not get in a girl baby?
I also think this sends a terrible message to her 3 daughters about their importance and how much she loves them if she is willing to go to these extremes to get a boy who (IMO) will more than likely be completely unable to meet her v high expectations of what she wants in a son. She seems to be placing all of her own and her family's future happiness on one little baby - if she does manage to have a boy, doesn't that seem a huge burden on him?

Sorry if this is a bit of a rant - this is the first thing which has inspired me to post on mumsnet and I'm all fired up!

novicemama, Just wanted to say welcome to Mumsnet Didn't want you to think everyone was ignoring your post, I just think this thread has run it course (unless we get an update)

See you around

thanks babieseverywhere!

thanks folks, still listening .
I have suggested therapy, she says she will get it after if she needs it, missing the point I guess. also having a special needs child is not something that frightens her.
I will stick by her for now, but I have made myself very clear to her about how I feel, she accepts this but it makes no difference to her decision, for now we have agreed to not discuss it.
thanks again for all the support x

welcome novicemum x

I didn't think there was any way of telling the gender as early as she plans to! Have I missed something?

OMG, I had my third child in September, I had two boys already and always in my dreams imagined I'd have a little girl, BUT never thought it would happen. When we decided to have our 3rd I accepted that it was likely that we 'ended' up with another boy, HOWEVER, much to my shock/surprise, we had a little girl.. BUT the thought of terminating a male pregnancy, well, I just couldn't imagine it. I absolutely adore my 2 boys and everything that comes with boys, how could someone, who knows boys (or girls) so well even consider having another one to be a bad thing.

Now on a slightly different note, I suffered from VERY severe post natal depression after having my last baby, but if we fell pregnant again (by accident), I don't think I could consider an abortion, because once you've had children, you KNOW what that positive pregnancy test potentially means.

fucking disgusting i wouldnt be friends with this person how could she do this she doesnt deserve kids and i hope she doent get pregnant ever again.

Having read previous threads on MN abortions, I must say I'm a little suprised at the strong feelings shown on this thread.

I feels really sory for your friend, as she obviously has some "major issues" to deal with.

But is terminating a pregnancy because the baby is the "wrong" gender so much worse than terminating a pregnancy for other reasons, such as a disability? Downs Syndrome for example?

Such a sad thread, on so many levels.

Lynette, surely if someone is that desperate for a certain sex they should go to a country to receive sex selection rather than aborting a potentially 'perfect baby'. I think it's an entirely different matter considering aborting a baby with a disability. Surely?

I obviously don't think along the same lines as other posters, but to me the life of a disabled child is no less valid than a "perfect" child.
Although I realise this is not a black and white area, and where disability is concerned there is potential to bring into the world a child that will experience physical pain. It's a complex issue.

I in know way condone abarting a feotus because it is not the mothers prefered gender. The feelings shown on this thread are understandably very strong, but I have been on other MN threads where people think having guilt-free abortion because it's simply not convenient that year to have a baby is perfectly reasonable.

interesting lynette, I think people find it very hard to accept that this is do-able, and that people do, and will continue to do it. but you made me wonder what the alternative would be -if she were to go on with the pregnancy if she were having another girl? would the 4th daughter suffer for being unwanted? probably. and a fith daughter? not to mention the stress and strain caused to the whole family for having such a large (partly unwanted) family.

actually, I think terminating a baby because it wasn't 'perfect' and has a disability is just as bad.