Support thread for 'late' potty-trainers and/or gentle/slow training?

[badchat]

DD has just turned 3. We've had a potty for a year. I've been reading potty books, talking about using potty/toilet etc. for months and months, and watching and waiting for signs of readiness. So far nothing. She shows no awareness of doing a wee or a poo, or of needing to. She has been uninterested in, or hostile to, the potty and knickers up until recently, and she doesn't seem to mind having a dirty nappy at all. Also, up until quite recently she would sometimes wake with a poo in her nappy.

She is meant to be starting at a nursery/pre-school in mid-September, which will require her to wear knickers, although if she is not potty trained they say they will work with me to try and help.

So, for the past few weeks I've been getting her used to sitting on the potty, e.g. regular reading on the potty after breakfast. For the past week stepped it up to wearing knickers or nothing for a few hours a day as well (she asks for nappies quite quickly and I encourage her to stay with knickers but if she gets upset I don't want a power struggle over it so I go back to nappies).

So far, nothing in the potty, just a few wees on the floor. She says she doesn't know when she is about to go.

I am trying to stay positive - we have moved on at least from refusing potty/knickers to giving them a go. But I am finding it really difficult - I am worried about her going to nursery and having a horrible time being worried about it, or being teased. My sister is very disapproving and seems to think that it is my fault she isn't potty trained yet. I have mentioned it to a few friends and they have responded with slight shock, and e.g. "oh, x was dry before she was 2"... I don't know a single other person in RL who is struggling or has struggled with potty training - everyone seems to tell me that their kid wanted to train, or responded quickly to adult-led training.

Anyway, sorry this is so epic. Just hoping some of you out there are in same kind of position and will come and huddle here for support!

when I say successful toilet sits I mean just that..nothing actually went in it!

Hello, purple. Welcome to this damp but comforting thread...
Well done on the successful 'sits' - that is all progress! Keep going and keep posting here.

May I join? Am relieved to have found this thread.

DD1 is nearly 3 and we have had a few attempts but none successful. She just doesn't seem to have much interest. And now, I have to struggle to even get her to change her nappy because she is busy playing. I have tried to explain that if she learns to use the potty, she can just use it and go back to playing and it will be faster than struggling with nappies.

We also have some difficulties in that every book I have read assumes that there is a toilet in the bathroom or that all houses have two toilets. Our house is a late Victorian/early Edwardian build with one toilet on the ground floor, a bathroom with just a sink and bath on the landing, and no toilets on the second floor.

Any advice?

And as to the nighttime dryness, I read that that is entirely biological in that they won't be dry at night until they produce enough of the hormone vasopressin. And we can't speed up biology.

My DS is 4, never used a potty or a toilet, with holds poo so has 7-8 dirty nappies per day. He's been referred to CAMHS for anxiety over toileting. Starting to lose my mind a bit.

Sinister. I totally get the feeling like a bad mother bit. We've given up for a bit (DS 3.3), after he woke the other night having a bad dream and when I went he shouted out 'I don't want to sit on the toilet!' . Not going to mention / push it all for a while. Tried a few days before with pull ups but my DS is so against any change he noticed a different picture on the front and wouldn't entertain then at all (when I wrongly forced it a bit he just ripped it off and said no). Hoping it might just click one day and he might be one of these dry in 4 days types (if they exist) . All very stressful.

I've come back again after we quit PT because after what seemed like a few days if success she simply gave up.

I would appreciate advice on how to deal with the 'rage' associated with clearing up. I just cannot change her now after she does a poo in her nappy/pullup/floor, I am aware my reaction is unhelpful and I do know I have to remain patient but some days after asking and asking and asking her and the second my back is turned she poos I have shouted at her so so much.

if you ask her she parrots back that wees and poos go in the toilet. She kniws when shes going. She can pull her trousers down. But no. Flat out fucking refusal.

Rewards don't work. Punishment doesn't work. Even nursery have said that they give up. Ultimately its a hygiene issue because she smells and other children are teasing her - in a room of 30 children she is the only one untrained. HV just simpers and vaguely suggested it was our fault for leaving it so late.

So how do I control the rage?!

Oh and dd is 3y.5m and she does mammoth poos which are foul to deal with.

How is she with wee, Big Welly?

The only thing I can suggest is leaving it up to her for a while- we found that helped a bit in making progress with wee. I think he had got sick of us going on about it....

We are still no further forward with poo. Might have a concerted effort over Christmas - just to add to the festivities!

I was just looking at this thread to see if there were any helpful tips:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/1815316-If-you-had-a-DC-who-refused-to-poo-on-the-loo

Doesn't even try for wee - it is affecting my relationship with her now. Just before lunch we'd had a great fun morning she literally walked in front of me - squatted and poo'd in her nappy - then walked off.

I mean how do you even rationalise that? She knows full well exactly what she is doing and when. Won't use a potty or a toilet. She has eczema and getting her out of nappies would help so much as well because we have to wash her down after poos or if we notice any odour.

Nursery have no ideas apparently.

Marks place to read and join in when I get a free minute. Hello everyone :)

Sigh
Just sigh.

DD1 has just had a tummy bug, granted the nappies were a godsend but her refusal to even try and do the poos on the potty or loo has meant she has been left with bleeding and red raw nappy rash. In the meantime a friends child who has just turned 2.5 is dry in days.

I am SO fed up. Please can we have a group hug or something? Right now I feel like an atrocious parent.

Hug for you BigW!

BigW how old is your DD? Mine is 3.5 and totally not interested in training :( I'm thinking about maybe getting some professionals involved.

She is 3y and 6m.

And right now I fully confess I do not like her behaviour much.

A belated big hug BigW. My DS is is also totally unresponsive to rewards punishment etc. Generally very well behaved other than this issue. I also note that when we have a potty training phase our relationship deteriorates for which is not helped by my stress / frustration re accidents / lack of progress / dragging round DC2 (20 months) in/out of toilet while DC1 (3.3) decides whether he can bare to sit on toilet/potty. I've got no advice sorry, just support xx

It is so difficult and tiring too, always having to think around the whole poo/wee issue.

We have had some small but pleasing steps forward:

A wee in an unfamiliar toilet! At the swimming pool no less, albeit made somewhat tricky by the fact that we were both cold, wet and hampered by clammy swimwear. But he did it, for the first time, to much celebration!

Willingly going for a wee at bedtime - I am thinking of bracing myself for trying to go nappy less at night.

I hope that these small successes do encourage others - this was a child who refused to sit on a potty at all at age 3.

Still no progress on poo though!

Branching - how old is your DC and how long have you been 'progressing'? Sounds you're at a really advanced stage! Well on the way. Well done xx

Hello everyone, could I join in? DS is 3 yrs 5 mths & is just not getting it either.
We've tried on and off since he was about 2.5, but every time stopped it because he really isn't bothered about peeing and poking wherever he is, then sitting in it refusing to acknowledge or accept it. My poor sofa has really suffered, and constantly smells of lavender Febreze. Better than the alternative I guess!

He's been at nursery since September, and they are now putting pressure on us to get him out of pull ups. Don't get me wrong, they know it's no use if he's not ready too. It's frustrating though when they keep asking about it!

Just realised that should be peeing and pooing! Oops!!

purpleflower We didn't really make much progress at all until about 3.2 when I finally managed to get him into pants (Bright Bots trainers) by 'running out' of nappies. ;) He was still terrified of the potty at that stage and it was 3.7 before I ever saw him voluntarily use the potty, although his grandmother claimed that he did previously use it from time to time on his days with her - she was v supportive btw, no MIL issues.

Hi Amiable - welcome, hope that you find it supportive here. You are not alone! Will he sit on the potty at all? I recommend the Bright Bots pants as a useful staging post out of pull-ups.

Hello. May I join this thread? Ds is 3.1 but was a late walker and just getting to grips with his speech. He knows poo though. We have had potty wees first thing and after his bath. He will only do it standing over the potty. Probably need to get him some pants but I am worried about pushing it. Plus I work so need to sort some leave for a long weekend of pt. What a great use of a/l!

Can I join too please. My gorgeous boy aged 3y5m is driving me crazy, we started training last May when he was 2y9m. He hadn't shown any interest or willingness before then and with my girl she'd been the same but when we did it with her at 2.9 she was trained day and night within a week. But my DS..... no progress whatsoever from May to Oct. literally nothing, just wee'd and poo'd in his pants every bloody day through to Oct. Can't begin to tell you how annoying it was. We flitted back and forth between pants and pullups in that time as it made zero difference what he was wearing and it drove me demented after 3/4 weeks of non stop changes. He started pre school in Sept and day 1 was in pants and same story, I thought maybe peer pressure would help, but no, he really couldn't give a goddamn! In about Oct he suddenly got wee'ing and he's now dry day and night, even wakes up for a wee, which is great but let's be honest, who cares about night time. Problem is poo'ing, he steadfastly refuses to poo in the potty or the toilet. It's not at all unusual for him to stand next to the toilet and poo in his pants. He seems to get totally freaked out if I can manage to get him on the toilet and he can feel poo coming. The pre school are worse than useless (generally, not just this) and I'd take him out if he didn't love it so much. He goes to school in Sept and after 8 months, I just can't see any light in the tunnel.
He has no other developmental issues and is a bright boy. He absolutely knows when he needs to poo, he takes himself off on his own, but just doesn't want to do it where he should. I've been patient, angry, gentle, bribed, punished you name it. None even register! Today I said I'd put him back in nappies like a baby (okay he said) then I said I'd take his dummy away (which he only has at night and needs to go anyway) and he said 'but babies can have dummies' (smartarse). He just doesn't care.
What the hell do you do??

Hello to everyone - and Happy New Year!

Will come back and reply to new posts later but an update from us: DS is now 4, and is still shitting his pants every time. Not one poo on the potty, ever (save for one where we knew it was coming and forcibly plonked him down on it). He says he doesn't know the poo is coming. The Movicol has worked in that his poo isn't hard any more, but it's still erratic and comes in smudges and blobs rather than all in one go. I am so sick of chucking away soiled pants and feel like I'm living in a permanent smell of shit. (We tried going back to pull-ups for a bit but that just made him lazy on the wee front.) I suspect that his bowel has become overstretched and numb after the constipation, but I don't really know.

Will take him back to the GP this week and see where we go from here .

Hi Fishandjam, sounds very familiar. So frustrating isn't it!