Support thread for 'late' potty-trainers and/or gentle/slow training?

[badchat]

DD has just turned 3. We've had a potty for a year. I've been reading potty books, talking about using potty/toilet etc. for months and months, and watching and waiting for signs of readiness. So far nothing. She shows no awareness of doing a wee or a poo, or of needing to. She has been uninterested in, or hostile to, the potty and knickers up until recently, and she doesn't seem to mind having a dirty nappy at all. Also, up until quite recently she would sometimes wake with a poo in her nappy.

She is meant to be starting at a nursery/pre-school in mid-September, which will require her to wear knickers, although if she is not potty trained they say they will work with me to try and help.

So, for the past few weeks I've been getting her used to sitting on the potty, e.g. regular reading on the potty after breakfast. For the past week stepped it up to wearing knickers or nothing for a few hours a day as well (she asks for nappies quite quickly and I encourage her to stay with knickers but if she gets upset I don't want a power struggle over it so I go back to nappies).

So far, nothing in the potty, just a few wees on the floor. She says she doesn't know when she is about to go.

I am trying to stay positive - we have moved on at least from refusing potty/knickers to giving them a go. But I am finding it really difficult - I am worried about her going to nursery and having a horrible time being worried about it, or being teased. My sister is very disapproving and seems to think that it is my fault she isn't potty trained yet. I have mentioned it to a few friends and they have responded with slight shock, and e.g. "oh, x was dry before she was 2"... I don't know a single other person in RL who is struggling or has struggled with potty training - everyone seems to tell me that their kid wanted to train, or responded quickly to adult-led training.

Anyway, sorry this is so epic. Just hoping some of you out there are in same kind of position and will come and huddle here for support!

DS3 will be 3 in a couple of weeks. He knows when he has DONE a poo, but isn't yet able to TELL me that (he has Global Development Delay and speech delay, amongst other things). Wees? Nope!

I have 4 DC's, and every single one was potty trained at a different age...when THEY were ready! My DD finally came out of nappies day and night at 4yo - but she wasn't clean until she was 7yo, and she wasn't dry during the day till 10y7mo, and at night at 12y4mo. (She has SN, and she also had to have her bladder expanded before she was able to stay dry).

My DS1 took his nappies off at 18mo, was instantly dry day and night, and has NEVER had an accident. Sod all to do with me, he is stubborn and had decided that nappies were for his baby brother, and that was that!

My DS2 was dry in the day at 2y7mo, and at night at around 3y6mo. He is 10 now, and is only clean with the aid of daily medication, as his hypermobility syndrome affects his bowels.

My DS3 also has hypermobility syndrome, so I'm not rushing it, but we are very gently trying. It's just an issue with the wees as he has no clue what's going on before, during or after a wee.

At least with poos he now knows when he has done one.

With movicol , you need to give it at the same time every day, for a good week or so, to start to see any improvements. DS2 has been on it for 5+ years now, he's currently on 2 sachets a day, and if we miss a single dose he gets backed up, and if a dose is more than around 20 minutes late even.

If you give the Movicol at the same time(s) every day, it regulates their pooping times. Best advice I was ever given about Movicol. (Thank you to the poster on the SN board that gave me that advice!)

My DS3 will happily sit on the potty or 'torlit', but has never done anything on there. He often gets up after 5 minutes or so, and pees as he walks away...and then jumps in it saying "muddy puddle, muddy puddle".

My poor carpet...

The vasopressin thing is utterly correct, and the reason my DD wasn't dry at night until over 12yo!

After a faecal impaction, it can take 3-6 months for the bowel to go back to what it was before it was stretched. Relax on the pants front, Tesco pants are cheap enough. I gave up trying to clean shitty pants about three years ago, and it was the best thing I've ever done.

So much stress gone!

Just bin them in a nappy bag and buy a new pack with your shopping each week. Hang the expense! It just makes PT so much easier if you don't stress about shitty pants.

Actually, this has reminded me that as DS2 is getting backed up again, I need to add an extra dose of Movicol in - he's grown, and 2 sachets a day aren't doing the trick, as he's blocking the loo again with his logs...

Sometimes bowel problems can need years of treatment with Movicol. DS2 is headed to rheumatology, as Movicol isn't as useful for them once they are 11, so they need to work out what to do next.

This thread is, however, giving me the balls I need to have another go with pants with DS3. Having two DC's not fully PT when one is 10yo was putting me off somewhat, but I now have the kick up the arse to try again.

Anyone got any good story suggestions for a boy? I have Skylanders pants (his current obsession thanks to DS2...), potty and toilet seat.

His pooing is also complicated by the fact that due to his allergies, he is on a very (VERY) restricted diet, and also on a milk replacement that he has to have at night (bleurgh to the night time feed at almost 3yo...not slept a full night since I was 6 month pg...).

It makes him very irregular, as it is nutritionally complete (he does eat food during the day too), but he has different amounts every night. Some nights he only has half a sachet, other nights he has up to a sachet and a half. Which means that he poos anything between one and 5 times a day, at very irregular times!

Crikey couthy, sounds like you're having a right old time of it. A good tip on the Movicol though - DS does have his at the same time each night but every so often I do forget to give it him. He's only on half a sachet but maybe I need to up it a little.

Jint, indeed. And the pitying/incredulous comments I'm starting to receive ("What, isn't he toilet trained yet? What's wrong with him?") are seriously boiling my piss.

If you have any apple 'things', download Pillboxie. It's a free App that gives you a notification when meds are due. We have so many in my house, it's invaluable for ensuring that nobody's meds get forgotten.

If you haven't been told that you can adapt the dose as needed, and been given a minimum and maximum dose, the please speak to the prescribing HCP before changing the dosage!

It is based on height and weight, and I know that while 2 sachets a day was working for DS2 before he grew and put on weight, his maximum dose is 6 sachets a day.

That is going to be very different for a 2-3yo!!

If you are giving the dose at night, are you finding he is waking with a pooey nappy? Usually it takes LITERALLY 12 hours from Movicol dose to poo, it's practically like clockwork! (Another tip from the lady in SN on here)

I find that a 7pm dose ensures a poo at 7am, and a dose at 7am produces poo at 7pm. Basically decide when is the easiest time for him to poo (for you!) and give the dose 12 hours beforehand.

If you up his dose (after medical advice), then give the other half sachet in the morning - 2 smaller poos are much better for someone prone to faecal impaction or bad constipation than 1 larger poo, as it heals the bowels quicker.

Aaarrrggghhh! DS3 is soooo irritating, yet has really cheered me at the same time.

I try and try with potty training, not one piss on the potty or toilet.

I go to College tonight, my Ex was here looking after the DC's. DS3 ASKS for the potty, sits on it and then pees.

YAY for his first success, but FFS why do it for his Dad and not me!!

Both and and all at once. But mostly .

I don't know who is still watching the thread, but I thought that I would share:

I went to pick up my DS from nursery and a jubilant key person informed me that he had done a poo on the toilet!!!!!

His first proper one, ever!!! Age 4.6!

I actually cried a little bit...

Hooray!

I've gone cold turkey with my 3 & a half year old DS for the last 4 days, indoors in just pants and fleece top / socks. So far today, we've had ten accidents in his pants, one poo in pants. He quite happily will sit in it and it doesn't bother him whatsoever. I remind him every half hour, been sitting on the toilet which he will occasionally not mind doing. I sat him on toilet as I saw his little dance, sat for a few minutes. Wanted to get off. Within a minute of getting off he had done a wee. He hasn't the speech to say 'need wee' and I'm seriously doubting he even makes the connection. Feel such a crap mum with various digs from family, even 'is he autistic as not talking fluently or using a potty?' 'You've been too soft!' Etc - I wouldn't say I'm soft or lazy with him learning to potty train, I just don't want to push it with him when I'm still not convinced he's ready but I can't understand why. Someone please put up a success story!

Ok I will post a success story. I was on this thread last August when we had first tried to think about potty training. We finally went cold turkey with DS at the weekend and put him back into pants having made a few slow steps in the intervening months about getting him to sit nicely etc.

I did have some support from a private OT, but that was mainly around seating positions etc as well as clothing given DS disability.

TBH I was dreading actually potty training DS again, and sure it was going to fail. I had been thinking I really must do it for a couple of months but what with DS being ill, me being ill and the extra crap which comes with a disabled child I had put it off.

Anyway the weekend was a disaster, no success at all. lots of accidents. Took him to nursery on Monday and thought oh well they can deal with it. 3 accidents at nursery and one at home. had a medical appointment on Tuesday which I had to drive to. Took a deep breath and a lot of changes of clothes/towels but then kept DS in pants, we managed the full 90 minutes without an accident (couldn't believe that). 2 accidents after that. Same 2 accidents on Wednesday, but then yesterday nothing, no accidents all poo/wee where it should be. This morning also dry nappy from overnight and waited until 60 mins post breakfast to wee.

I am not saying we have it sussed. It is still to early to say. I am also very much aware that I am still prompting DS/Taking DS to to bathroom every 2 ish hours (but then he can't walk so I figure that is OK) so there is a bit more support than perhaps there should be BUT even with his disability it feels very different this time. And I feel different this time.

I am not sure what helped apart from DS being older. We do have a specialist book about potty training children with special needs. There are really two fantastic tips in there. The first is to get a record of what your child's pattern is (how many accidents/how many successes and tiems of day- that made me realise DS can in fact control his bladder, well that and the car journey when he udnerstood cars don't have toilets in them) and the second was even when DS did have an accident to insist that he went to the bathroom to "finish" and be cleaned up so that he did not think not telling us was a better use of time than telling us was so he could finish his game/toy etc.

Those two tips were worth more to us than all the bribery in the world!

Big hugs toast monster. We've finally cracked it after 10 months but I'm sorry to say I have no golden tip! DS was poo'ing in his pants when our back was turned for months. Nothing worked, praise rewards, shouting etc. finally we went for 5 days to Disneyland Paris and the nature of the holiday, and the fact that he was literally never alone seemed to do it. He couldn't sneak away so he had to do it on the toilet. At least I think that's what did it but he could just have finally been ready. We started training him at 2y8m and he was just over 3y6 when I could say he actually got it. Honestly some kids just take longer. DD only took a week! And I'm the same mother so it isn't you being soft/lazy etc. it really is them! Take care, it's really, really miserable. Wine helps ;)

Lovely to hear those stories, it really does help! I've stopped again for another month and I'm going to try and work on his speech so he can / could at least tell me when he needs to go. It really is the hardest challenge I've faced in parenting, fingers crossed that he will get it before starting preschool in September even though I shouldn't put a time frame in mind, it's hard not to think like that. Have a good day

Agree Toastmonster, everyone hears about the sleepless nights but I don't think potty training gets the press it deserves. Re time frame, I was the same, DS is an Aug baby so he actually starts primary in Sept and I was terrified he'd still be poo'ing in his pants going to school. Good luck

Just another update. After the success story of his poo on the toilet at nursery, we had a slightly blah few days where he went right back to old behaviour and seemed to regard his job as done: 'I went for a poo on the toilet at [nursery name]'.

But then he did it tonight. I think the key today might have been that, while we were at the shop, we spotted something that he really liked and I said that he could have it, but only if he did the poo on the toilet at home. He carried it home in his coat pocket but then voluntarily gave it to me to put in the bag of rewards I have, so clearly his hopes were high that he might see it again.

Just another 'yay'!

Glad to find this thread. DS is doing very well but had three accidents today so obviously have a little way to go.

Hope everyone is okay, I know how infuriating it can be.

Hi everyone.
I wondered if anyone had advice for me?! We've successfully potty trained DS (now 3.9) about 2 months ago and it actually went much better than expected! I'm really pleased we waited until he was really ready. But... I'm wondering how to get him to use the 'big' toilet! We have a comfy seat for him but he's refusing to even think about it!! Do you think I should move his potty (now in front room) up to the bathroom (it's a tiny bathroom!)? Any ideas are very welcome....not sure where to go next!

How is everyone going?

Madrigals, my DS was very similar, we started off just getting him to sit on potty before it after bath at night only, eventually he did a wee and got a sticker for sitting on potty and a big sticker for doing a wee! I looked at the potty training for boys book which was gentle but in the end I just did whatever happened! Lol. When we decided to go for it, I just stayed in for 2 days with no pants on. Rewards are vital!!! We used choc buttons each time and a daily pressie, slowly going to a pressie with a full sticker chart! And then only stickers on chart for poos!!! Good luck xx

Not a busy thread then?! Lol

After many suggestions to my DS about trying a wee on the toilet, I kept getting shouted at 'Nooooooo' but this evening his potty upstairs was still in my bag I took out today and so I offered him the toilet, with reward, as he seemed like he needed to go! It worked! I'm Gobsmacked! He then asked to go again after the bath! So proud of him! Sorry for gushing! Lol