FESH spa and creche: The Ultimate Destination for survivors of the Palace and Deli: Prologue

[CurlyCasperBaggedABairn]

Welcome weary travellers. It's been a long road, but you made it! Now, hard as it might be, leave your ESH spawn at the creche and step into the spa - where we have every treatment available to soothe your Amityville Horror undercarriage, ravaged raspberries and worn out wits. And - wait for it - we've got the bar back. And it's all-inclusive

So, what are you waiting for? Grab a glass, lower yourself into the jacuzzi and lets get chatting. We are Forever ESH!

P.S Children never cry here...

Ski sounds very scary but very well done you! I like the element of humour although I seriously doubt there was anything humerous in it while it was happening. The main thing after all said and done is that you are both fine. What ths fuck is the paracetemol all about though? If anyone comes near me or my arse with paracetmol will get a good hiding.

Where is Cunty??? Hope all is going OK with little Tuesday.

I is here.

Mostlygoing ok - was up at A&E with little one's runny bum on Sun, but he was pronounced well, if a teensy bit dry, so have been topping up his feeds for 24 hours. BF a living nightmeare of sore nips, got a reall ball of stress developing whenever it approaches feeding time. Got one nip more ravaged than the other and more or less out of action so the other one is really feeling it. Knowing the theory about how a latch works is not helpful when kid won't open his mouth properly and ends up chowing down with jaws of steel. MW said yesterday his latch was ok, but it's not and I cannot get him to do it properly - got the same mither as you cas - loads of fiddly faffing before attempting a latch - head bobbing about everwhere and then he gets angry, fists in the way, etc. V soul destroying.

However, on the plus side, I LOVE expressing. Soooo much more confortable, feeds in half the time, can see how much he's getting and it's all of the goodstuff too. MW sent out dire warning about dependence on teat destroying chances of effective latch. Well I can well believe that but my rationale is this:

1. I can keep my supply going with regular expressing
2. It doesn't hurt and is thus less stressful for me and him
3. It gives my raspberries a rest and time to heal and means that night time feeds are generally more comfortable
4. We are both far less angry and tearful.

I'm sure someone will come along in a moment and tell me something fundamental like, yes but your supply won't increase with his appetite if you do it like this, but to be frank I'll run that risk knowing he has a full belly for longer which allows me time to build up a supply. Yes it's not as convenient as whipping your tits out, but to hell with that. This business is stressful enough as it is without making it worse on myself.

Is that adequate self-justification do you think??!

Cunty I feel your pain. FWIW all I can suggest is to try and persevere but don't beat yourself up if it gets too much and you have to stop! I had one malfunctioning boob and getting him to latch on that side left me in excruciating pain. I remember shouting "fuck fuck fuck fuck" until it eased (about 20 seconds in). I too used to dread feeding times when I had to feed from that side. I used to alternative boobs so he would feed from one side (totally empty it) then feed from the other side the next time so every other time I dreaded it.

In the end it got better, I somehow sorted out the latch and with help of lanisoh the pain eased and eventually it went but I did have to feed through the pain and I was so close to jacking it all in!

I was about to go to a private breastfeeding counsellor but didn't need it in the end. If you think this may be for you I can recommend Clare Byam Cooke who is local to us (SW15 Putney I think) and she charged approx £90 for a consultation (in 2008). The NCT do have them but you can wait weeks for an appt. A few people I know have used Clare and only needed one session. Let me know if you want me to try and hunt out her phone number.

Oh okie that would be great if you could - I mean I know there are helplines without number but it's not the theory I struggle with. A one off counselling session might be just what the doctor ordered

In fact, isn't that just the sort of thing that the Health in Pregnancy grant is set up for?!

CUNTY may be worth contacting La Leche League as well, they have counsellors.

cunty you have summed up a lot of how I have been feeling. I'm sorry you are having a shit time of it. If it helps, it did get better at this end. And your sharing your feelings has helped

I don;t think more breastfeeding classes or ought will help us - because my baby does latch on fine when she wants to.
Thankfully, she fed really well on the breast before bed last night. SFF did the middle of the night feed with EBM in a bottle, and she spent an hour on the breast first thing.

I was thinking maybe she did not get much at that feed, because she then took EBM from a bottle too (I was expressing, SFF was bottling and feeding small amounts according to her demands). However, we have just woken up, taken a small amount of EBM in a bottle (we had guests) and then a few minutes on the breast before falling asleep again, so I'm guessing she just stuffed herself earlier so does not need much now. (I hope)

Doc decided to treat me for mastitis. Might well be, but after Googling (dangerous, I know) I don't think the symptoms add up. Anyhoo, the antibs will make it better if it's mast and worse if it's thrush, so we'll see...

I felt so awful last night, as if I was failing her. Today much brighter and more positive.

I still heart bottles though - no matter what MWs say about demand and appetite. I'm probably going to end up combining EMB and formula anyway.

ski Egads, woman!! Can't you do anything quietly? Seriously, I got something in my eye when reading your story. JB sounds wonderful, and I am so pleased about your wee boy. Hope you heal quickly.

How is the tummy? I was screaming for opiates for the first 48 hours. Now it's just kind of itchy and numb, with infrequent internal after pains. (Oh, and you'll like this: I didn't realise but when you have a second c-section they cut out and remove the previous scar. Yes, you heard right - I had a tummy tuck for free!)

Yay for cheggs's and cunty's arrival. cunty you have absolutely described the latch attempts chez Priceless, i.e. head bobbing, fist flailing. I totally agree with your logic. And yours too, casp. Surely any method by which you can keep giving her BM is positive, non? All sounds good to me.

Congratulations all on your baybees. It sounds like everything is going well.

I have done a lot of research on bf after struggling to re-establish it with dd at 12 weeks and can share my pearls of wisdom with you all...

Have any of you tried nipple shields for breastfeeding? They are supposed to make sore nips more comfortable. Also, watch out if you are expressing and you have really sore, bleeding nips - it turns the milk pink.

La Leche league is great if you are struggling, really supportive and helpful (and free).

The night time feed is v important for milk supply after the first few weeks so don't always give EBM for it.

Finally, do be cautious about using the bottle to feed too much, the baby does get too used to it and will then refuse to breastfeed. It was a massive struggle to get dd off bottles and back on the breast when I didn't want to spend all day expressing any more.

I don't know if this is any help at all to those struggling with BFing, but what I did with DD when she used to wave her head everywhere was grab her head with one hand, the boob with the other, and when her mouth opened, if only for a nanosecond, ram the boob right in them. Bizarre, I know, but I found it easier initially to take boob to mouth, than the other way round. It was a bit sore to start with, but soon settled down, and I didn't even get half way through the tube of nip cream - still got it spare for this time .

Am jealous of anyone having boring contractions. I had a lifetime's worth of very not-boring ones all in one go! I am just going to sneeze delicately this time though .

Cunty I don't see a problem with your plan. I am all happy to give BFing support to those who ask for it, but my firm belief is that mothers should be able to go for the method that works best for them. Your body still ups it's supply even if you are expressing. I fed DD myslef till 9 months and then I went back to work and took my trusty breast pump with me for another month while we weaned her onto formula. It's amazing how much you can get out with a breast pump (and how much comes out all by itself if you forget to take it with you. Picture me in an aeroplane loo spraying into the sink with norks like a pair of birth balls the time I did forget it!)

BTW when you come to stop BFing I got a really helpful herbal tea that is supposed to help dry you up a bit quicker. Stopping is nearly as hard as starting, not that anyone is thinking about that just yet.

I can also recommend getting BFing advice too. I had help from a SCBU sister and it was fab - a couple of sessions with her and I never had any trouble feeding at all.

Thanks bess and box.

I will persevere with the breast night feed then, and maybe get SFF to do the last thing/first thing feeds when he can. I really needed that sleep last night.

Please don't get me wrong - the support I have had with feeding, when we were readmitted, was great. But MWs and I were trying all the same tricks and agreed that my baby was perfectly capable, but just struggled at times, probably because of her size. And she gets very sleepy on the breast, so ends up dropping off with my nipple hanging off in her mouth. That'll change soon enough the way she is going - more food, more energy.

If these anti-bs work, and I am in less pain, I think we'll be ok. when she does feed properly, it's actually quite a pleasant situation.

BUT thanks to the whole meds situation, I may well be trying to dry up my supply in the next few weeks or months. I'll ask about that one when/if it comes to it.

Loving the in-flight imagery boxy. I quite like watching the crazy flow in the bath!

Cunty I have the number for you. I will message you on t'other place.

in bath, hand expressing excess milk, on mobile internet and singing Somewhere over The Rainbow on repeat, like my West End career, or indeed my life, depends on it, to keep baby restful just long enough...

...and then I dropped my phone in the bath. Not sure if it will come back to life.

Baby heavy breathing and snorty as if she has a cold. sound mucousy but no runny nose though. Normal? (will ask MW tomorrow)

it's normal. Breastmilk will help, though

Thanks Bess. At least this way I always know she is breathing...

casp I did wonder whether you were taking a bit of a risk there!

Babies can get very mucous-y, and don't have the ability to deal with it, apart from sneezing. Plus being on their back most of the time doesn't help. Boy had horrible problems for the first couple of weeks. Here's what we did:

1. Any time I saw a glimpse of snot in his nose I grabbed a tissue and tried to catch it and 'pull' it out. You'd be amazed how much comes out.
2. Warmer temperatures seemed to help.
3. A tiny bit of Snuffle Babe on a cloth tied to his basket. It's a very mild vapour rub. HV said it was OK on fabric near him, but not directly on his skin until he's older.
4. Held him over my knee above a bowl of boiling water so the steam could help clear his airways.

I agree it is some weird reassurance to hear him breathing though! Hope your phone is OK.

By the way, ski when you talk about clots the size of a pack of butter, you do mean the little individual thing you get with your hotel breakfast, as opposed to a pound of unsalted Lurpak from the supermarket, don't you? Just asking. (And a bit scared of the answer.)

will try those thanks fanny. She really does prefer to be sitting over my knee facing forward. She's happily back on the breast again right now though, so I am content.

Can't answer for ski, but the only noticeable clot I have had since birth was few days later and the size of my hand. I freaked out a bit but MW said was ok.

while we are talking of food shaped body bits, did I tell anyone about my doughnut placenta? Details to come in my War and Peace birth story. (working on it now, might need some editing)

Phone is still in ICU...

PART ONE:

Right, it?s been 12 days now, so goodness knows how much of the following birth story will be accurate!
First sign was loose bowel movements ? we had been warned about this; your body clearing out to make way for labour. Unfortunately my appetite also increase and I ended up with a large ?normal? one stuck in my rectum before, throughout and after the birth. ?Twas a major relief when finally evicted. I think the poor MW, who knew it was there from vaginal examinations, was expecting a nice mess in the delivery suite, but it stayed put (no doubt adding to the pain/pressure I experienced). Anyway, that is jumping ahead.
Overnight Tuesday to Wednesday, I was on my own as he was on nights. I had a really restless time of it. A funny feeling inside which I cannot explain, and the urge to get up and pee more than every hour. Had had and early night, and during midnight loo trip I thought I spotted a flea on the bathmat (have since hunted various parts of the house for evidence and there was nothing). That spurred-on an idea that I would set my alarm and get up at 4.30 am, with the rising sun, to do housework, so I would be prepared for the grandparents to stay when baby came. Just in case, you know
That went out the window. I was suddenly very tired. Still getting up a lot to pee, but not paying any attention when I did. So I might well have missed evidence of the show that was in my pants when I bothered to look at 6am. Definite show ? bright red, none of this snot coloured stuff.
I had been having fairly regular, pain-free tightening for weeks, and these were stronger, but I still wasn?t sure if they were the real deal. I phoned SFF at 7.30 and filled him in on the show. Then I did some googling ? and concluded that labour could be days or weeks away. So I cracked on with the housework. When SFF got home at 10am, he said I should call hospital. I agreed I would just as soon as housework was done and bags checked. Then I would just have to wash myself and dress before leaving.
Because we had moved, I was yet to meet new community MW. So I rang the day assessment unit at hospital I was booked in to. It was where I had ended up in the past anyway. MW there didn?t realise seem bothered, but gave me 2pm appointment.
SFF nearly hit the roof ? he thought we?d be seen straight away. And, of course, England were due to play at 3pm! He had hoped that if it was a false alarm, we could be seen to quickly and he could get home and watch the football before his next night shift.
At the hospital, they set up a trace etc, asked questions and, with my consent, did a speculum examination and swab to check blood was definitely a show, look for infections and see if there was any dilation/effacement. ECG machine thingy detected way more proper contractions than I was actually feeling, albeit irregularly, and MW said I was thinning, but no dilation at that stage. They really were not convinced yet that it was Happening.
Was given the option of going home and waiting it out, or staying in, just in case. With SFF due at work and desperate to get away for the match, I opted to stay. I think I ?just knew?.
So, I sat about, feeling like a fraud surrounded by women being induced (desperate to get them out, poor souls). The contractions became more noticeable, but never more than period pain. I was refusing pain relief for several hours.
A bit fuzzy from here ? just because it was a long night on my own. Evetually took co-codamol, refused Meptid. Notes say I was still very calm and reading through the pain (Harry Potter!) . There?s probably better detail on the last thread, but at about 9pm (or was it 7?) a VE showed me to be 2-3cm, and MW said I could expect a baby in the next 12-14 hours. Mum decided to start driving. SFF was sent home from work. He managed to chill out with his mum a bit (she had come up to dog sit) and get some sleep, before the call at 4am...
I was 5cm! It was time to move into the Labour Ward. But my tightenings were still all over the place and I could easily talk through them etc. I would have been up shit creek if phoning in from home. There is no way they would have deemed it to be time. I was still pretty chilled, but they set up the G&A anyway, and to be honest, I rather enjoyed using it for the first few hours. Quite liked that stoned feeling and just resting my head on the bed as the pain and the ?fix? faded away. Great when CXs were 10-15 mins apart. Not so much fun at 2min intervals.

To be continued... I have no idea when. But this is a good place for an interval. Also a good place to stop reading if you want to think labour and childbirth is all sweetness and light

\O I don't, I don't!! Can I hear the rest?

I'm no longer in Wonderland either... bring it on!

cunty/casper I too am struggling with the bf in the sense that if (when) we encounter problems he starts jabbing his fists and wriggling his head around which of course doesn't help one little jot. Like you cas, I am using a combination of breast, expressed and formula - whatever fucking works - I will NOT have him go hungry just to win an "earth mother" award - particularly in light of his current size.

Yes, please, Part 2 when you can.

So ski, given that you are no longer 'in Wonderland' how do you feel about the whole experience? Relieved? Traumatised? Blissfully happy and have already put it behind you? I am just so in awe of this sort of experience. This goes for all of you who did it hard.

MrP and I agree we have had it so easy and uncomplicated. We knew exactly what to expect and that's what we got. I have never been in labour, have no idea what it feels like, and still feel like I am looking over the fence at that whole experience. The only thing that stops me feeling like a fraud is knowing how much I suffered during the pregnancy, i.e. I have paid my dues, one way or another. But still curious about you 'real' birthers and how you all feel after going through such an ordeal.

boxy I think I use a variation on your manual tit shove when needed too!

Quite so ski. I was MORBIDLY DREADING this evening's feed. I am now a bit smugger. Fat cushion on lap, Hom held him at the right angle, I held my boob between two fingers, Hom stroked Rastus's foot, Rastus opened his mouth and Hom shoved him on Bang! No opportunity to escape, no opportunity for grizzling. Sucked away, good latch, no undue pain, 30 mins. I really think I'm being too gentle with him, I'm not taking any messing about next time.

I'm trying to avoid formula if poss, only because I don't mind expressing till I'm blue and drained and if I haven't any expressed then I'm forced to do boob. However, if boob doesn't work there are cartons of ready made formula in a drawer upstairs, like an illicit pack of fags or summat

Ok, so part two will read a little differently. The first few hours were ok, just a few medical worries, but in the last few hours I had completely lost my grip on reality/sanity/bladder control

1. Urine infection. Suspected. Confirmed with tests. Could have been the real cause of my labour. Sff angry because I had been tested for one at last Cons appointment and was yet to hear back and be treated. If they?d bothered to act, she might still be inside me now.

1. Doc was going to break my waters at 9am. Decided not to. Would reassess at Noon. ?That?s hours away? I wailed. ?Just do it!?

(brief chat with SFF now to check some details: There was concern that I was having ridiculously strong contractions, but my waters had not broken. Doc wanted to break them, but decided to check on baby first. He asked for a good half-hour trace. But they were struggling to get one because of her being an awkward little madam and me moving around. I do remember that the knitting needle thingy was sitting there waiting.)

1. Baby?s presentation. As I said before, they didn?t know if it was back-to-back, breech or other. Cue three extra docs and an ultrasound machine discussing the way forward. Mum even heard talk of a section. The minute I heard the words breech I think I pretty much demanded one! (I was hurting a leeeeetle bit by now). But she was in roughly the right place ? head down, side on, but trying to come out nose rather than crown first.

So when the pain hit, it was all about the pressure ? her shoving the widest part of her head towards my hole, a blocked back passage, and pubic pain from the SPD. With every contraction, I had SFF pressing hard on my lower belly to counteract. This became impossible once I was strapped to the monitor. But it was sooooooooooo painful. It was this that made me nearly hit the student close to the end. She was determined to do her job and keep the probe thing in place, I was determined that she should get it the fuck out of my way and let me try to ease the pain she was making worse. (Quote? Sff, get that fucking bitch out of here now? said very quietly and sternly, with a look on my face that he had never seen before) SFF begged them to give me a break for 10 mins. They tried to, but then I hit even more pain and started yelling about the pressure being unbearable ? and I truly meant it.

I had developed a fear of going to the loo, because I could not get there and back without being hit by VERY bad contractions, and there is no pain relief in there! So I ended up lying on my side in the delivery room and pissing myself . I did shout that I needed, and then that I had done it, and they very kindly suggested that it was perhaps my waters. Nope, I knew I?d wet myself. Badly.

(at some point I had started demanding an epidural. Poor MW tried several times, but I guess the seriously ill women having sections mattered more ? the beyatches!)

During this most extreme contraction pain/pressure I had been moving around, desperate to find a comfortable position to complete the birth in., but no matter what I did, gravity multiplied the agony. I eventually settled lying on my left (where I wet myself). I had screamed at them for trying to part my legs when I had SPD (?you do NOT do that to someone with SPD. Stop it!?) so once I was on my side they tried to lift my right leg into a stirrup thing, because I didn?t have the strength to hold it up. Ended up with Sister holding it. (she had been called in to assist because it looked like it was all going to go tits up). Great, a slightly better position for my tired body ? I was ready to do the last bit.

Or Not. With an hour and a half to go, my waters finally broke. I was the only one who heard the POP. And had to tell them all it had happened. And she?d only bloody well gone and pood in it. Great. More fears for baby/heart monitoring. Justified this time though, because her HB plummeted, I was turned on to my back (ish ? kept rolling to side anyway).

I gave in to the pain (gutted ? should have swotted up on hippo shiz). And screamed the place down. Got told off for not pushing properly, got the G&A taken off me, because it would stop me pushing properly. Argued that what they were telling me was not what I had been taught at yoga, nearly bit mum?s head off for saying I should get my chin down to my chest etc (she just got a filthy look ? and was the only person NOT to feel the full force of my wrath). By this point, I was determined to not have this baby. They could have it back. Someone else could have it. THEY JUST HAD TO TAKE THE PAIN AWAY!

And yet they still expected me to push this huge thing out of my foof! When she crowned (or nosed in her case) I did not give a toss about the ring of fire. It was all about the pubic bone pain. As if someone was driving an axe through it, and it was going to split in two at any second. ?Push into the pain?, they were saying. ?Get to fuck? I was thinking. I mean, who on Earth is going to embrace a sensation that their entire pelvis is about to break in half???!

On the point about pushing: SFF now reminds me that they were telling me I was pushing in the wrong place, then the right place. I spoke up for myself and said that I could not tell the difference, I was in too much pain. So they touched me where I needed to push, and from then on, with every contraction they touched me, and I did it right from there on. They were really good wimminz

Thankfully, the body splitting pain was short lived. Her head finally came out at 12.10 and she was born at 12.11. She was brought straight to my chest and we cuddled for the start of the managed third stage.

Part three to follow... (not sure if there is a limit on posts ? sorry this is so big, we are kind of working through it all together as I type on a word doc. Very therapeutic)