March 2010- Group Therapy on the cheap

[ValiumtheConqueror]

And cupcakes

Tee hee

Evening

Donttry hurrah for sleeping! My little man is currently being settled by DH...he's taking a long time to settle again. Am missing the nights when he slept 5-6 hours without a peep!

Pixie Glad you had a good night too

Manda at the weaning but sounds like you're happy with it . I was also contacted about the Eat study but didn't want to risk being in the non-control group as I don't want to wean early...yet I really wanted to contribute to such good research! And glad you got such a lovely present

Sarah yeah, time for the sunshine to come out . Hope you're feeling better after your night on the wine! On the tonsils, I'd say have them out. I had mine out as an adult after years of suffering tonsilitis. Not fun as the operation is a lot worse in adults (apparently).

Heckle the night time settling/lack of settling is quite knackering so glad you got some time off last night. And Jake Gyllenhal - yum!

Sariska thanks for the web chat tip.

MElk glad to hear the potty training is working now. Smac hope your DD catches some virtual vibes from elk.

Valium meant to say love the new name!

So, I'm after a bit of advice on bed time. It usually takes DS an hour to settle to sleep - feeding, rocking, shushing etc - is this normal? How long does it take your babies to settle? DS just doesn't self settle at all and I'm just telling myself that he's still young enough (12 weeks) for this to be OK...can you tell I'm a clueless first timer??

But on the excitement chez flip today was that DS rolled from his tummy onto his back - 3 times in a row!

Clueless first timer Flip? I'm a clueless second-timer!! Based on my personal experience, i had a hideous few weeks where babyV would not settle anywhere but on my chest and even then would scream. i gave up fighting it and used to fall alseep on the sofa with her. She would always settle better at the 10.30pm feed, presumably because she was already mostly asleep. From there i started waiting until she was fast asleep in my arms and putting her down. If she woke I'd have to start all over again, but it did work. This week (16) I started putting her down after cuddles but still awake. She goes down at 7/7.30, is woken for the late feed/dream feed and doesn't wake until 6/6.30 or so. I do wonder if I've been a lot more realxed than I was with DD1 because i know she's my last, and have been cherishing the cuddles for myself rather than for her. But being relaxed worked.

I don't think I could even try to settle Isabelle before it's well late... She seems to want to be awake at night! But once we get to about 10 pm (now) I usually manage to feed her to sleep, then put her straight in her basket and she stays asleep.

Nite nite!

Well baby G had her second set of jabs today ( we are 2 weeks behind schedule due to our Scottish jaunt) so at 14wks she weighs 17lb 3oz, she is back to being between the 98th and 99.6th percentile. It was a stand in HV so she hadn't met the large lovely Baby G before and I forgot to take my red book with me. She was somewhat surprised at her weight gain particularly seeing as she is exlusively breastfed. I'm not sure she believed me when I said she was exclusively breastfed but hey ho!
I looked at DD1's chart and she was this weight at 5months and that was when I just started the weaning journey. I am so not ready wanting to start weaning yet. Call me lazy but I find BF really quite convenient and weaning oh so messy! I need another 2 or 3 months to build myself up for it.
If I had followed your DP's mother's advice manda then DD2 should have been weaned at 7 weeks as that was when she hit 14lb, surely that has to be wrong!
Anyway each to their own, we have already proved that we can all rub along nicely despite doing things differently.
and manda it is lovely to see you back here and I do hope you'll post more.
pixie for the record I've sent db a message saying the MN March mummies are asking after her.
Nothing else really to report here except my parents are coming to stay tomorrow so I'm very excited and haven't really got myself organised so better get off my arse and tidy up!

Self-settling? Ah ha ha ha. Look away now....or learn that my DC1 was almost 2 before he learned to self-settle. And he seems to be regressing (something to do with the baby, maybe?). There were many rounds of Twinkle Twinkle sung and a fair bit of crying done before the little soandso darling would go to sleep tonight. Baby slept on blissfully throughout it all in her sling (after crying blue bloody murder when I dared leave her in her hammock for, ooh, 10 minutes). And she's still asleep now and stayed asleep while I took out of the sling and put her into her sleeping bag. About to do dreamfeed and then she will go to bed in. her. own. bed.

Needless to say I'll be tuning into the sleep webchat. I must be doing something wrong.

Might also need to find a spendaholics webchat. Have spent much of this evening (DH is out) browsing the Boden autumn preview collection. I've been sadly disappointed with Boden recently but this time there was quite a lot of stuff I liked (boosted by the fact that the baby range now goes up to 4yo - yay! - so much more choice, especially for little boys whose mothers like them to look like little boys and not like miniature wannabe surfers). Anyway, I have an overly large basket and hence some whittling down to do.

Flip clever little DS!! You'll have to watch him like a hawk now.

Settling to sleep...well basically one of us feeds DD to sleep or nearly asleep then deploys our bomb disposal skills to deposit her in the Amby. Helped by hairdryer/white noise download this week! And the dummy sometimes. Then we leg it. Sometimes have to hoof back up after a while to change a nappy and rock back to sleep. Or give her a top up feed.

During the day though...god she won't sleep in the Amby more than 20 mins. record has been an hour.
How do you all put them down for naps during the day? Awake/asleep? If awake what do you do if they cry?
And if they wake up after 20 mins or so what do you do?

I seem to spend all day worrying and struggling with her naps. This is very as I should be enjoying her and making her life nice. Instead we both end up frustrated.

Also now that DD is going down a bit earlier how do you give this dream feed. if she wakes at 4 or 5 this morning rather than 7 then it may be worthwhile looking into that for the future. terrified of waking her though as she is such a highly strung little mama.

Oh god Sariska I have to stop buying stuff especially as my work mat pay stops in August.

Sorry i know this has been asked before.

Smac your baby is well big innit!! Well done you.

If this baby falls asleep on the boob I put her down to sleep. If she wakes up that's ok. If she stays asleep that's good. Some days she sleeps a lot, other days not so much. No need for routines yet if it doesn't come naturally...

Just a quick one from me - It's National Bookstart Day so you can pick up a bag of baby books from your library. I went along this morning and the pack of a couple of books and bits and bobs is lovely (can you tell I used to work in children's book publishing?/).

Just in the door from the BCG jab so will be back to post properly once things have calmed down here.

Thanks for sharing the bed routines - good to know that I'm not doing anything wildly out of tune with what others are doing.

I used to feed him to sleep but he's stopped that in the last week, which is where our stress is coming from! Much easier for him to fall asleep that way than all the shushing/rocking/etc I've been having to do lately...Guess our babies are still quite young and TTSP. Valium you give me hope that as the weeks pass my DS may yet learn to go into his cot drowsy but awake! I also know what you mean about the cuddles - I do so enjoy them and will miss them so much when he's grown!

Donttry god, I laughed out loud at bomb disposal skills - so bloody true! The contortions we go through to get DS into his cot without waking him up...and on daytime naps, I've been there with days that seem to consist mainly of me stressing out and DS resisting sleep. Horrible for both of us. However, he seems to be better at falling asleep in his pram (knocks furiously on wood), and I do at least one long walk each day to give him an hour plus of a nap. I also use the sling as necessary (on the basis that good daytime sleep equals good nighttime sleep). But each day is different. So, for instance, at the moment he is asleep in his car seat for the FIRST TIME EVER! I am in shock, as he fell asleep on the short journey back from the BCG jab (he has never fallen asleep in the car, even on journeys of an hour and a half) and stayed asleep while I brought him in. A couple of wakenings were sorted by rocking him quite furiously until he went back to sleep...amazing...

When he cries I tend to pick him up and cuddle him...or even feed him if I'm really wanting him to go to sleep. Strangely, he won't be fed to sleep at night but still can be fed to sleep during the day. I then plonk him in his pram and rock it (if wanting to stay at home) or head out on a walk. One thing I've learned about day time naps is that he can open his eyes and look awake, evening looking right up at me, but be in fact asleep.

OK sleep ramble over - he has now properly awakened!

This thread fell off my active convos so just signing in again.

I am furiously lurking but really cannot be arsked with this onehanded typing.

Am in a passport application panic, had a couple of bad nights/days but will be back honest .

Off to ask neighbour to sign the blasted passport form. £49 pounds for a baby passport !!!

Thanks Anna and Flip for the nap tips. Each day is different for me too. I also find bouncing up and down very gently on the bed can get her to drift off, but it's getting her to stay asleep is the problem once she wakes. Anna do you think she'll just naturally learn to nap for longer as she gets older so to hold the stress for now?

Right, I'll try and do a 'proper' post:

rebecca, grr on your behalf on having to go in to work. I totally agree American companies just cannot fathom European mat laws (and the British ones are really not all that generous).
I am going in for some computer training in early July - oh great joy !

We deffo need a sleep consultant, or drugs, or blow to the head, or anything to persuade this child to Go and Stay asleep.
Let us know what tips you get.

BMI, at Muttley laugh, sounds cute IMO. No loud laughs here yet (he was 3 months old yesterday) but big smiles and lots of cooing when not crying.

siamese, interesting about sleeping through when birthweight doubled. I don't think we are anywhere near that milestone. Yes, Joe sucks his hand vigourously as well but more in a playful/explorative way, and not to help soothe himself.

anna, you mentioning your move to the US made me look up the Green Card Lottery site (again. It has been an obsession on and off for years ). I have no intention of moving to the States so I am not sure why I even looked but might just put my name forward. Good luck with new buyers!

sclloby, re activities. Joe and I just graduated from the baby massage class and v nice it was too. Lots and lots of things are totally booked out here for months in advance. I might try something called 'Kindermusik' with DS3. Anybody heard of it?

Rindercella, you truly are an inspiration how upbeat you always sound. Glad your new house sounds like a 'forever house' and that you have help for the move roped in. Hope your DH continous to cope well.

AuntieValium, belated congrats on arrival of baby niece , how lovely! It is nice that you will get to see her soon.
Hope vaccs had no ill effects and weight continous to rise.

Dalrymps, I am with you on the snoring DH . And I have really been enjoying NOT having Joe weighed in the last 3 weeks. Paeds appointm is in 2 weeks; that's soon enough. He is clearly filling in and outgrowing clothers etc. Glad to here your first is absolutely fine inspite of having been petite.

smac, I won't even begin to compare weights with your LO, wow! You are clearling doing something very very right - could you not bottle is and send us some, whatever it is??

Melk, I am with you on the taping-dummy-on; we were considering Superglue - what do you think??

Manda, v v interesting about the early weaning. I am totally confuzzled by the immunology behind early/late exposure to potential allergens. I know I felt v smug when the advice re peanuts in pregnancy changed all of a sudden (I have always enjoyed a Snickers bar or 10 whilst pregnant). I suppose I will aim to stick to current guidance but God knows whether that is right or not.
Tell me to mind my own buissnes but just be careful that your solids do actually have more calories than the milk they will replace IYKWIM. And do not worry about centiles being crossed or not - at the high weight end where your LO is, there is no concern there . Also .
Enjoy lovely Rolex .

Oh, I am running out of time.
Just Pixie, I am crap with FB, really do not bother with it and havn't done in moths. My own brother has not had his fried request returned, so do not take anything personal.
I still have major photo problems that DH cannot sort.
I'd much rather meet in RL .

Right, must dash, hello everybody else.
You'll be glad to hear I will not bore you with our feeding all the time/not sleeping day or night/crying a lot saga of the last few days...

Enjoy the sunny evening
Right I will post without checking, so excuse any typos.

Donttry just wanted to add that I tried dream feeds (ebm) at 10.30 last week and it threw things right off. By the end of the week DS had stopped sleeping straight through until 2am and started waking up anywhere from 10-11.30 and then again at 1.30-2am (yawn). So I've stopped it for the time being...

PD baby massage sounds lovely . My own passport panic has abated somewhat that the US passport has arrived but still need to get the Irish one sorted - need to find someone to sign the blasted photos!

I am SO relieved to know I'm not the only one 'cheating' when it comes to baby sleeping, especially at night. I really thought I must be the only one still cuddling their baby at night with no self-settling skills to speak of yet. I was starting to get a bit frustrated in the last week or so, thinking there was pressure (real or imagined) from all sides to get the baby to sleep on her own in her own bed. But I. Shall. RELAX. It really is the best way. Thanks to everyone who's shared their non-routines - particularly valium for her light at the end of the tunnel take on things!

donttry don't know if anyone's answered your dream feed question but it's basically this: once baby has been asleep for a little while in the evenings, you pick them up around 10.30/11 (basically just before you go to bed) - baby should be very drowsy, or possibly still asleep - then shove boob/bottle into their little gob and encourage them to drink as much as possible before they get really sound asleep again. Then replace baby in the cot, et voila - babe should last a bit longer til the morning feed!

Ok, want to right more, but DD2 is literally screeching for attention!

Ok, sleep consultant been and gone and, though it's too early to tell on results, I thought she was great!

I'll write down everything I can remember in case it's useful to anyone.

We went through a whole day in detail talking about what she normally does. She thinks she's a baby who needs a lot of sleep (based on the hours she's having during day at mo) and, as she's sleeping well (95% of the time anyway) at night, should be easy to get in to the routine.

She put her down the moment she was tired (she said better put her down 15 mins before she's ready than 1 min after the window so to be over-cautious when watching for tired signs).

She showed me how to swaddle when they've outgrown a swaddling blanket: put in baby sleeping bag, get pram sized sheet and fold in half (so it's long and narrow) and lie them on it with top of sheet level with top of shoulder, then tuck the ends over their arms and under their backs so they are lying on them. Also tuck the end of sleeping bag under them when you put them down.

She suggested doing this consistantly for daytime naps and then switching to it at night when she's outgrown the swaddling blanket.

She then (in a dark quiet room) put her down and legged it. We went back in after 3 mins and laid a hand on her firmly for 5 secs and went out again, repeated this after 5 mins, then after 7 (and if she'd kept crying after another 3 mins - important not to always go in after 2 or 3 mins as they'll learn you are coming back at regular intervals).

If she had still been screaching after 15 mins (she wasn't, she was grizzling) we would have done pick up put down for a bit).

As it was she fell asleep after 20 mins and slept for 40 mins (the longest stretch ever in her cot.

While she slept we devised a routine. She said I should stick to it religiously for 2 weeks, with her having all her naps in the cot and then once she's doing it regularly I can break it - as long as she has about 4 sleeps out of 7 in her cot.

A few principles of routine (though she would craft it differently for each baby):

• 3 naps a day with a long one about lunch time and last one finishing about 2 hours before bedtime
• Feeding every 3 hours, but obviously more often if a growth spurt or if she seems hungry earlier
• while she's getting in to it she advised using bin bags to totally black out windows
• during this 2 weeks getting her used to it, once she's gone in to her room for the nap she should stay in there for the duration - if she's supposed to be napping for 2 hours she needs to stay in her cot (apart form PUPD if she's upset) for that long. If after 4/5 days she's consistently napping for 1.5 hours rather than 2, she'll change the routine to reflect that

-it's good to start it over the weekend so DH can help

• if she really won't settle in to it she's suggested using rolled up cellular blankets to support her sleeping on side in the day as often they like this
• play in cot during day, have a fun mobile, favourite toys, but take these away before sleep

-put a photo of your face in the cot and somewhere an item of clothing you wore the day before

A few other non-sleep related tips (she's a midwife):

• eat lots of protein at lunch and dinner to improve quality/quantity of milk
• as I have to do a bit of switch nursing as DD still not keen on slow flow, keep hot flannel nearby, apply to breast for 15 seconds before sitching to stimulate another milk let-down

-tie a knot in a muslin as a teething aid

• wash hair no more than twice a week, dry vigorously and then brush hair even if they are bald. Stops oil build up and helps with cradle cap
• if she doesn't have a good feed at breakfast time, try shortening the night feed by 2 mins every 3 days until she's having a good feed at breakfast - this helps gradually eliminate night feed and shifts feeding to daytime rather than night. Obviously only continue shortening if she's content.

Controversially she wasn't keen on Amby for over 3 month olds. She couldn't argue with the fact that S slept well in it at night, but said as daytime sleep is lighter the movement could be waking her and that you can't do the whole playing in the cot to make it a fun place in the Amby. She also said it would be a good idea to do daytime naps in cot as it'll get her used to it and won't be too hard a transition out of Amby when the time comes and that as we're working on napping at the moment and getting her used to something new it would be a good time to get a cot for daytime. I can see her point, but not quite decided yet...

That's all I can think of - but will let you know if I remember anything else.

Oh - and after she'd gone I did the whole shebang for the last sleep of the day. She creid for 10 mins, grizzled for 5 and than slept for an hour. The longest she's ever slept out of the sling during the day. She also seemed less grizzly before bed, even though she's woken up 30 mins earlier than previous day, so think she's right that cot sleep is a better quality of sleep than sling sleep.

Will keep you posted.

No time for shout outs but Flip, donttry - we also abandoned dream feed - it made her unsettled and screwed up night wakings. I know it works really well for some though...

wow Rebeccacad- great news on sleep front

no time for shout outs to all as I'm supposed to be packing; we leave at stupid o'clock in the morning so I will see you all in two weeks.

Oh, and if you need a new thread, get Headgirl to point me in the right direction!!

Hi All,
Just finally catching up with the various posts - been on a lovely long day out at Temple Newsam in Leeds with what seemed to be about 450 preschoolers (in reality about 10) and 3 newborns. Happy days breastfeeding in a line in the sunshine!

Valium Thanks for the cakes. mmmm tranquilizery. . And at Mallorca holiday - we're hopefully going to book a cottage in the New Forest in early Sept (anyone want to MMMM down there?!) with our child tax credit newfound riches !

Rinders New house sounds amazing. And good on you for being SO positive about life! It's really refreshing to hear people who're appreciating what they've got - reminds me that I ought to as well.

Grizzer Hurray for sleeping 11- 7! Well done babygriz. And I know what you mean about the return to work thing. I remember thinking with DD "How am I ever going to fit in all the lovely things I do when I'm working!?" Sorry you've got to go back in July - seems awfully close but 6 weeks holls will be realy nice with a bit of cash in your pocket. (I did the same thing and went back before Christmas with DS - school were just so chuffed not to have supply in anymore that they didn't care about paying me over holls!)

MAnda So lovely to see you back. Sorry it's so draining with the feeds - maybe mention it to the GP? And Rolex? Nice.

MummyElk Again with the laughing at your post. 45 minute intruder seems to have passed here. But TTSP works both ways I guess!

Flip Exciting news on the rolling! Clever little boy! And settling... urm I get Simeon to settle by leaving him to cry for up to 10 mins. It's been a long time since it took him longer than 5 mins of wah-ing to fall asleep. You might not want to hear that though. If you're happy cuddling him then do it - they're only tiny so long. Best 2 pieces of advice I heard though were: how ever they fall asleep that's what they're going to expect when they wake up in the middle of the night so do the cuddling and last feeds in a darkened room. And just once or twice, try putting him down full and sleepy and swaddled ? in a darkened room and walking away where you can't hear him for 10 mins. Chances are he'll be asleep when you come back. HTH. And I second Valium's comment on cherishing the cuddles.

Don'ttry Sorry the napping is gettin gyou down . IME getting them to settle to sleep is easier than teaching them to resettle if they wake up but it's essentially the same technique as I said to Flip. Do you have a sucky baby? Would a dummy to calm them down help? I know Simeon wll calm down with one and then i take it out before he sleeps so he's not waking up when it falls out.

And Flip and Don'ttry something my friend suggested was to pick whether you want to first sort out baby settling to sleep, or sleeping at specific times. If it's sleeping at specific times then use the buggy / car to settle them at the same times every day. Soon (within a week) they get used to being asleep at a particular time of day. Just a thought.

AND BOTH OF YOU - Exactly as Hecklephone says. It's not a competition - do what works for you - comparisons with other babies never help. Enjoy it - that's what I'm finally learning with number 3 - to ENJOY him.

PAcific We did a taster for Kindermusik but it wasn't for us (bit too hippy and the title is too German!) but a friend did it and loved it. We've done TinyTunes and Sing and Sign. Both great!

Rebeccacad Your sleep woman sounds AMAZING! All of the advice is first rate and reaffirms some of the stuff I've been trying. Really glad to hear it was useful too! Thanks for passing it on and lettin gus steal the advice benefit for free!

OK. Off to scrapbook and babysit the 2 extra children who're STILL larking around upstairs.

Arcadie, interesting what you say about teaching them to settle not being the same as teaching them to resettle. Alex has been settling well for naps/in the evening (not tonight tho!) but then needing 2 night feeds. Except last night I got the 4 am wake up call and instead of picking him up I gave him back his bunny. At which point he stuck his thumb back in his mouth, grumped a bit and went back to sleep. So I then assume 6.20 shout must be food, take him back to bed with me to feed and he promptly goes back to sleep until 7.20 without feeding, when his sister appeared ( and nothing stays asleep once she starts talking. Except DH). It hadn't occurred to me that the 2 skills are different. More patience required in the Dragon cave...

rebecca, thanks for the tips. I can't reconcile her 3 hourly feeding with a 7-7 day but otherwise it all sort of makes sense to me. Then again, WTF do I know?

Right, back to the feeding - complete misfire this evening so early feed needed. Maybe he'll sleep better?

Saw every hour last night. He's just gone to sleep so I think I'm going to join him an pray he does his usual of staying asleep for at least three hours when first down (I would usually stay up now, for some child free time. But sleep wins out - only the fear he's gonna wake might stop me falling to sleep myself. I deal better with staying awake than sleeping for a little bit then havin to wake up)

I snaffled TWO gu brownies today. I sense a new obsession developing...

MMMM in the New Forest, Arcadie? Yep, would suit me down to the ground as tis where I like going for lazy pub lunches very close to where I live.

Sleep consultant sounds helpful, rebecca - and thank you for sharing her tips. Very useful . interesting what she said about the amby and naps: my ds would nap in his amby - but not his cot. Go figure. Oh, and we had no trouble (at 7mo) moving from amby to cot.

Self-settling update: dd put herself to sleep sucking her thumb whilst lying in the middle of my bed (she's not a roller yet, although we do have bed guards just to be on the safe side) while I bathed ds this evening. She only slept 45 mins, so can't really call it bedtime but, still, I was impressed.

Passports: yeah, £49 for a baby's passport that's only valid for 5 years is a bit rich IMO. But have to cough up as have flights to Scotland booked for end of August. Just not sure about the photos I had done. Background looks distinctly white to me and I gather, from reading the guidance notes after I had them taken, that it should be cream or grey. Plus there is a kind of visible rucking in the pillow thing she was lying on. Guess I'm going to have to get them taken again...

One other thing: did I dream it or has one of you signed up to Pushy Mothers? If so, what is it like? I'm kind of toying with the idea as a way of forcing me to take some structured exercise and not just eat cake and drink tea all day.

Flying visit from me - just enough time to say Sariska I thought about Pushy Mothers, but you have to sign up to a monthly fee so I'm planning and currently failing to go to one called Pram Attack in my local park (Finsbury Park) instead as it's pay as you go. But a friend is doing Pushy Mothers and really likes it