March 2010- Group Therapy on the cheap

[ValiumtheConqueror]

And cupcakes

Just a quick question from me - I've just been expressing for the past 10 mins and have managed to produce the paltry amount of HALF an oz . Is this normal or is my body just crap with expressing? I remember similar struggles to get much out with dd1. It seems to just drip very slowly, no 'jets' of milk (like with a cow IYKWIM ?!). How long does it take anyone else to produce a few oz of milk?

Heckle, it takes me about 40 minutes to get a large amount out but that's a real "pump em dry" job. Can you feel a let down? I found that if I wasn't having much luck then taking deep breaths helps, or smelling the baby's worn clothes (if not too vomit/poo/wee coated), or, as a final weapon, actually sniffing the baby. Don't ask me why.

Hmm, am posting in the car (DH is driving before anyone calls the police) and am thinking it's not such a good idea.

*Heckle" - sometimes I get 5 ounces, sometimes about a quarter ounce (if I'm lucky!!). Think it may be a good sign if you are getting a little amount as the baby has fed well IYSWIM (HV said this to me). At 10pm I seem to get a nice amount (though last night only 1 ounce!!) and tis a good time for me as DD won't be feeding for maybe 8 hours if I'm lucky after that.

Thanks so much everyone for the sleep/nap comments. It is really good to hear everyone has different methods and that they all work to some extent, as I was worried I was missing something obvious! And thanks rebecca for sharing the sleep consultant's tips.

So many people have recommended the leave them cry a bit in the cot method but I'm just not sure this is for me but I will keep it under review, especially as she gets older and wiser. I can see how it works and that maybe the crying is just crying because they're sleepy. In case it's genuine distress though I can't do it! Good to hear others cuddling/rocking/slinging/wheeling/feeding to sleep and this not being" a rod for your back". Don't want to feed a toddler to sleep like...

Although does anyone have experience of this being a rod for your own back i.e. now have to go through elaborate rituals with toddlers at nap/sleep time?

My mother suggested DD might be hungry which is why she doesn't nap well and asked whether I had her on solids yet. I think there might be something in this. I know DD sleeps great guns at night (10 hours sometimes lately) after a big feed and FF babies seem to sleep better. Don' t want to do solids but might try and feed her more often to see if it changes anything.

Y'all watching the match?? As a johnny forinner I've no interest but DH is glued.

Oh yeah Arcadie I caved and got a dummy a few weeks ago - it has been GREAT!!

Feck - I should pause before i post to make so I've said everything. I'm s impatient.

Forgot to say I went on the baby/infant first aid today and it is definitely worth doing. Though terrifying.

Apparently you should always bring a baby/infant to hospital if they have a burn, even a small one or sunburn as the shock could be very damaging. Also immerse the affected area in cold water (in a bowl would be good with trickling water) for TEN minutes to stop it cooking. Also if you suspect they are choking but they are coughing then leave them to it. Don't give any back blows as coughing is the best way to dislodge. And coughing means they are still breathing.

Feck - I should pause before i post to make so I've said everything. I'm s impatient.

Forgot to say I went on the baby/infant first aid today and it is definitely worth doing. Though terrifying.

Apparently you should always bring a baby/infant to hospital if they have a burn, even a small one or sunburn as the shock could be very damaging. Also immerse the affected area in cold water (in a bowl would be good with trickling water) for TEN minutes to stop it cooking. Also if you suspect they are choking but they are coughing then leave them to it. Don't give any back blows as coughing is the best way to dislodge. And coughing means they are still breathing.

Johnny Forinner don'ttry? Where you from?

Ireland (Cork) -wish i could say somewhere more exotic. Pretend I'm from Spice island (more like Spike Island - an island with a prison on it in Cork).

Evening all Once again I've lurked long enough for the thread to surge ahead; started writing a post last night but got distracted and forgot about it. Will try to catch up..

Rinders glad to hear DH is doing well and DD2 is still behaving for you. New house sounds fab!

Pixie Poor DS being ill on his birthday, hope he's better soon. Also, Pacific ignored my FB request too; I thought maybe she just hates me but if she's done the same to you I don't feel so bad.

Manda Only 2 Gu brownies, even after a rough night? I'd have finished the whole box the same day by now. I'll happily eat anything that bears the Gu name. Very interested in your weaning, but don't think Isobel's too bothered at the moment. And of your blingy Rolex. The only "push present" I got was a magazine and a Crunchie from the hosital shop the day after I gave birth

Smac Also very impressed at the size of baby G, she's a lovely biggun for sure. Hope your parents' visit went/is going well.

heckle We are also yet to try leaving Isobel to self-settle. She occasionally falls alseep in her bouncy chair, but 95% of the time she is either fed or cuddled to sleep. Nothing resembling a routine either, I feed her when she seems hungry and put her down to sleep when she's, well, asleep I feel like I'm instilling bad habits, but for the moment it works for us.

Pacific sounds like you had a few crap days, hope Joe is doing better. Are you continuing the cranial osteopathy btw, or waiting to see what the paediatrician says?

rebecca thanks for sharing the sleep consultant's advice, sounds like she was really knowledgeable and helpful.

Belated congrats AuntieValium, and hope you're having a great holiday.

Arcadie at group breastfeeding, must have been a sight to behold! Holiday in New Forest sound lovely. Interesting sleep advice re: self-settling and sleeping at certain times. Makes me think I really should make an effort

Sariska we took our own passport photos too, and I'm not 100% sure about them. Tried a photo booth (interesting balancing act: my knee on stool, baby on my knee, me holding her but trying to duck back so not in veiw of camera) but the noise when it took the photo startled her and made her cry! So we took them at home, her lying down on a cream sheet with cardboard under it to avoid creases, then cropped and ordered passport-sized prints from photobox.co.uk. I'm half expecting to get the application turned dpwn cos the photos aren't right. But we need the passport to visit in-laws in Belgium (and then Montenegro, where they're moving in August).

Flip yay for DS rolling over! Isobel has also started rolling front to back. She seemed to progress overnight, suddenly was able to lift her head much higher (as can be seen in photo on my profile ) and then over she went! Looked pretty pleased with herself too, bless her.

OK, I have to go and hang up washing before bed. We're planning to take Isobel swimming tomorrow and I want to go for a run beforehand, so need to be up earlyish. Bought Huggies swim nappies today; the XS are for up to 13lb and the S are for 16-26lb. Isobel is 14lb I got the larger size as we'd never use a whole packet of the XS before she outgrows them, but I hope they're not too big and leaky!

as requested my name has changed!

sorry not been on- DS has got over his throat infection and i have been struck down with tonslilitis, OMG i feel awful the anti biotics are kicking in now so at least i have got out of my bed¬! the house looks like a bomb site the kids are fighting non stop- argh!!! lol

oh well the joys of being a mother!

we have asked for ds to be referred for remval of his tonsilis, he has had it enough already!

have a great holiday valium,

take care everyone, gotta get sorted !

Ok, v quick post as preparing for my birthday BBQ later today (birthday on Monday), but - so far so very, very, good with sleeping:

• all naps have been in cot (we did buy one, just so she's used to it in the day - though good to hear sariska the transition wasn't hard for you)
• she has grizzled for 10 mins before settling - hardly any crying
• she has had to be woken up from most of the naps

-she even slept for the 2.5 hour mega nap over lunch with only 15 mins crying in the middle

• and last night she slept through for 12 hours!!!! (boobs like concrete in morning)

We will see but am as happy as larry as up until Friday I spent at least 4 hours a day jigging about with her in the sling trying to get sleep and she would only sleep for 30 mins once a day in her cot.

Hurrah!

don'ttry know exactly what you mean about the crying - it's so against my instincts and what I wanted to do and don't think I could have done it if she'd kept up proper crying for very long. As it is she soon went over in to grizzling which is easier to rationalise as you can hear how tired they are. But, everyone has to do what feels right for them - I was just at that point where I couldn't keep up with the aerobic sling dance all day!

Morning, all,

quick post before Joe wakes up:

Rebecca, am v of your so much improved sleep patterns - I would so be up for listening to some grizzling before babe goes to sleep, but no, he only screams at the top of his lungs and does not stop...
Hope you have a great day for your party and a lovely birthday tomorrow.

Heckle, re expressing, I can get anything from 1/2 oz to 4 oz at most. It gets more if expressing regularly at the same time of day, preferably in the morning.
I'd second the tips about having baby near or sniffing worn baby clothes.

BMI, we took our own passport photos too, some 2 years ago for DS3. Worked fine. The application for Joe is away, I found a lovely v patient Japanese man who runs the local framing shop and does passport photos too. He took at least a dozen photos of Joe sitting on my knee in front of white background and we chose the cutest most suitable one.
I think I will have to deregister from FB as I am just too crap at it - and also do not have the time to keep going on here and anywhere else (my parents are complaining the lack of e-mails).

Right, that's Joe awake, toodles!

Don't Try - I don't believe in "rod for your own back". DD1 was only fed or cuddled to sleep and had no routines for many months. Then she developed routines all by herself and she started to have regular naps and slept all night without any problems. (She did have a dummy though, this one hasn't so we'll see how that goes...)

Pacific - Ach ja, du bist Deutsch... English people can't enter the green card lottery as there's already too many english over there apparently. If you "win" there's a lot of stuff to go through, ie forms to fill in, police records, medical, interview at the embassy, etc, plus I think you need actual "intent to domicile" in the US so don't do it unless you might actually wanna live there! We could be neighbours...

DH was just reading in the baby book about what babies should be doing at this age (about 3 months). Holding on to toys, yes she has done that for a while. Tummy time and lifting up her head, no she hates it! Oh well, I think tummy time is overrated, she will get there I'm sure. I'm very impressed at the babies who are already rolling over!

DD1 was always ahead in the erm... intellectual dept but behind in physical stuff. All children are different and you should never compare... (I only compare when my child is more advanced at something)

Thanks Anna. REALLY glad to hear that.

Rebecca - sounds heavenly. What part of the advice do you think really swung it - the swaddle? Yeah like Pacific's Joe DD properly cries in the Amby by day too. Well she is sometimes fine at first but then starts calling which develops into crying. If put down asleep or sometimes nearly asleep she will stay there but only for 30 mins. I did read up about arms only swaddling before your sleep consultant suggested it. But DD is rolling onto her front now so bit afraid she might get in a right ole pickle if her arms are bound..

I'm going to try the Elizabeth Pantley thing of coming into the room 5-10 mins before she normally wakes from nap and start rocking the amby and shushing to see if it will prolong the nap. Also going to persist with the sling and have maybe a lie down with her too as can shush her back to sleep easily then (had a two hour nap this week this way).

In the early morning feed she has no hassle being put in the amby awake and settles herself to sleep....weird.

heckle - re expressing: sometimes I have jets of milk, sometimes it just drips out. The first couple of times I did it, I didn't get much - about 30ml after 30 mins. But I've been much more productive by sticking to mornings, and trying to get a nice relaxed seated position, and thinking about my baby to help. The other night, when Ben slept through for the second time ever, I was so painfully full that I (ironically) had to get up at 4am to express. I got 120ml from one boob in about 15 mins. Oh the relief.

Routine wise, things are (whispers) good. Ben has a bath at 7.15pm, is then fed and put to bed awake. He stares at his face or mobile in the cot while sucking his fingers until he goes to sleep. At nearly 11 weeks old now, he has slept through twice last week (8pm till 6am). Most nights though he wakes for a 3am feed.

My bleeding finally stopped yesterday. Hurrah! Sex is still painful - too painful to persist - so back to docs about that. Dryness due to BFing I suspect.

'Rod for your own back' - rubbish.
I am a proponent for the old 'Fourth Trimester' theory; having said that, that 4th trimester is now OVER, get with the program, baby!
We had another 'nap' of him sleeping for about 90 min with me lying next to him giving him boob everytime he stirred. 4-5 times for that sleep.

anna, I don't think we'll ever move to the States so will not bother with lottery. But I am very of you all going.

Re swaddling: if you are hoping your child will find their thumb/fingers to suck then surely swaddling them will prevent that, non? I am .

Pixie, . I will not ask how you are that certain...

rebecca, would you mind if I copied and pasted your account of what the sleep consultant said and posted it on the 'sleep deprivation' thread I am on? I'll find a link for it in a mo'.

It's taken me all afternoon to compose this, so who knows who I crossposted with.
Will be looking out for the Germany match tonight .

I'm getting toe nail surgery [grimace] on Wednesday. The podiatrist has told me not to use my breast milk for 24 hours, so I've been trying to make a store of breast milk. However, it looks like I won't have enough by then, so I'd like to ask your advice on using formula during the night.

The Aptamil (formula) box says to boil a kettle, then leave for 30 mins, then mix with the powder. But the water from the kettle is still very hot after 30 mins, and takes ages to cool under running water. What do you do? The box says not to make up in advance. Could I take some cool boiled water in a flask to bed, and add powder when baby starts to cry? Can the water be at room temp when mixed with the powder?

I've found the formula doesn't dissolve in room temp water. We keep bottles in the fridge for up to 12 hours and re-warm when needed, or cool them under running water if they're to be used straight away. The guidelines until recently were that you could fridge them for 24 hours. We use SMA btw, but I think they're all similar. It sounds like you've already invested in powder, but you can get cartons of ready made liquid too, which are less hassle short term. Sorry about your toe

Shroomer another vote for cartons of Aptamil - much quicker to heat em up than cool boiling bottles down. We also 'cheated' and did bottles in the fridge when I was supplementing Sofya - as BMI says, the guidelines have only recently changed.

Pacific of course, post away on sleep deprivation thread - sorry that's a thread you are on, but hang on in there.

don'ttry I think the things that have made a difference have been:
-turning her room in the the well of darkness using cardboard up at the windows as well as the blind. Sleep woman said it's just while they get in to the routine, but a friend of mine has tried it with her baby and got an extra 2 hours sleep in the morning and has found naps much easier
-if she wakes up after 20/30/40 mins having confidence that she will go back to sleep even if it means a bit of crying from her and reassuring from me
-I've always swaddled her so am not sure the new way of doing it is making a massive difference

Pixie Congrats on twins conception birthday! Sofya conceived today. I remember because a) it was my birthday b) we were at my mum and dad's and c) we argued all month so only actually did it a couple of times!

Sofya's gone down for morning nap with no crying - hurrah! But we had a super grizzly afternoon yesterday. She seems to hate social gatherings - hasn't been this grizzly since a good friend's wedding. I broke my routine, put her down too early for afternoon nap, she woke early and I couldn't leave her crying with all the noise the party-goers were making and then had a tired baby who screamed if anyone else held her! I managed to sneak another nap in before bed and she nearly slept through (till 5.45, but went back down after a feed till 7.30).

DH in good books after giving me a gorgeous necklace for my birthday and very funny card. He also did a cake and candles yesterday so doing very well in the husband stakes. I therefore stayed up with him watching the Canadian grand prix on iplayer - give and take and all that.

anna I don't believe in rods either. You only do things because they make life easier - if eventually they make life harder you can change them. Babies aren't static - they change, so your approach can change too. Next old crone to tell me about rods is going to be lucky to escape being attacked with one.

heckle expressing: I have been expressing at same time every day for 10 weeks. I get maximum 4 ozs and usually around 3. This is using breast compression (does help squeeze a bit more out when your flow slows), looking at videos of baby and smelling clothes she has worn. Breast feeding woman told me some people are good at expressing, others aren't and it's a physiological thing to do with your breasts and in no way a reflection of how much milk you have. She has breastfed 9 children (!!!) and says she can't get more than 2 Ozs when she expressed. I now mix EBM with a bit of formula for Sofya's one bottle a day as I can't express enough for the little gannet.

Ah, conception day? Yup, I concieved on the 14th of June last year so it's oficially James birthday, non? Surely I should eat a brownie by way o celebration? I should? Great!

(and I can be (virtually) positive it was this date as I was charting and this was when I ovulated )

Saw every blimming hour over the weekend nights again. I really think he's teething. The constant dribble and shoving of both fists (at the same time!) into his mouth all the time (it's quite a sight - it's surely a talent to have such a huge gob mouth?) is A Sign. Looking at DD's health book thingy, she cut two teeth together at 17weeks so it wouldn't be too surprising if he's got pegs on the way (13 1/2 weeks now)

expressing I tried the other day and got a paltry oz pretty quickly then... nothing. I think the handheld pump isn't strong enough? The reason I even tried was Dove contacted me again about another shoot! This time for an editorial/billboard campaign - it was scheduled for today but thursday they told me it's cancelled/ Got sent more goodies in the post by way of apology and told I'm 'top of the list' for when it's rescheduled.

rods schmods. That said your success following the sleep consultant is fab rebecca. I don't think I could do it, though. Yet. Speak to me a few more months of virtually no sleep down the line and maybe...

Bah. He's yelling. Back later.

greetings march mummies! survived the first week of daily meetings, was HARD. DD screamed blue murder for hours first day, and then got better every day after. Needed to express enough breastmilk to see her through a couple of hours each day, now production levels are all messed up - i.e. too much and have huge aching boobs. Sigh. Am lucky that I get to work from home a lot, but still sad and feeling guilty that I can't spend more time with her - she's still so little. Will look for employer with better maternity policy next time!

Sleeping: DD 11 weeks old this week, naps for a couple of hours a day on some days, not at all on others...tends to fall asleep around 8ish every day - I feed her to sleep, then she sleeps in our bed because i can just stick a boob in her mouth at night - do that maybe twice a night (without her waking up) then she wakes up at around 5.30 for a spectacular morning poo . Change, cuddle, feed at 7, snooze till 9...gurgle, coo, squeal until 11, feed, snooze, repeat pattern until 8pm. That's a good day. Bad days - wail, howl, scream, feed - repeat until 8pm, conk out.

So good to hear about all the different experiences and different ways of doing things. MN and you lot continue to be a font of wisdom, advice and clinical insanity.

waves from a southern hemisphere winter, over and out.

Hi, thanks for some useful opinions/experiences on expressing, folks. I've also looked at kellymom website and that claims anything from half an oz to 2 oz is normal for a full-time BF-er so at least I know I'm not unusual. However, can I be faffed with sitting down to express several small amounts to make up just one feed? No, and quite frankly I don't have the time. So I'm starting to seriously considering introducing the odd bottle of formula. It'll be good to have a bit of freedom/security to know DH can also feed her.

Part of my keen-ness to do this comes from the fact that my SIL has invited me to the Strictly Come Dancing professionals tour on Saturday in Edinburgh. So, although I know if I feed DD2 before I go into the theatre that that should see her through, it'll be reassuring to know DH can give her a bottle if need be.

On a similar note, I think we must be having a growth spurt here - DD2 has gone no longer than about 2 a half hours between feeds during the day for the past couple of days!

Stuff I meant to mention before -
manda great to have you back on the thread! Gu brownies - YU-UM. Rolex - YU-UM! And my judgy pants are in the laundry so defo no probs here with the weaning thing. As I may have mentioned before, WHatever Works is my motto!

pixie hope your DS is feeling better

Happy Birthday rebecca

Hello again Afri! Well done you for juggling baby and work, I hope you do get plenty of time off and oppurtunities to relax with her.

shroomer if it's only one day save your time and use a small carton OR two - bout 50p each. You can warm them up but actually you can give the milk straight from the carton - there is no medical reason to warm it up. My ben is poor and deprived and has his milk straight from the fridge - so much easier than faffing to warm it up when he is screaming!

If you are going to make up from powder you can't mix it cold - you mix it while its still quite hot and then cool it down. ~It wont mix when the water is cold. Current advice is make one bottle as and when you need it but that would be a nightmare - boil the kettle , wait 30m, mix, wait to cool etc etc - baby now screaming! For years and until about one year ago the advice was make a batch every 24hrs and leave in fridge until required - far more sensible. However health n safety madness says you
MAY get a tiny amount if bacteria from the fridge.Never killed the of kids that did this for years - or my ben-so far!!

Shroomer Contrary to all the other posts I always was a contrary one.... I make up Simeon's 10pm bottle by: sterilising. Putting in boiling water. Leaving it to cool. Putting in the powder when it's time to feed. Shaking it like a loon for about 30 seconds to make sure it has all dissolved. Warming slightly. Giving it to DH who shovels it into him.

Hi all the rest of you.

I just made the WORLD'S BIGGEST LASAGNE!