June 2008: the One Show (almost)

[Essie3]

essie I think bananas are linked to constipation so they might help with solidification.

deb so I'm not the only one with a less-than-brilliant pelvic floor? I'm squeezing like crazy these days because I was fine for ages but just recently I'm a bit worried that I might start needing something. #1 reason not to have a third....

early crush which DH loves to tease me about Pinball Clemons

On that note... DH and I are debating daily whether we will want another child. It's mainly because I have to get my coil removed tomorrow and will be back on the stupid minipill again (been on birth control since I was 16 and I'm sick of it!!!). Once we make a decision about no more kids, DH will get snipped which will be great... but we're not sure we don't want another yet. So can I hijack this thread and ask for pros and cons to thirds? We've come up with:

Pros:

1. Our kids are wonderful human beings and complete blessings in our lives.
2. Three might break up the competition between two boys.
3. We like the idea of three for mutual support when we're old, embarassing, and decrepit (and I'm sure we'll be totally annoying old people).

Cons:

1. 3-bdrm house and we don't want to move and it's not really suited for extending.
2. Hotel rooms, cars, outings all organized for families of 4, not five.
3. My body sucks at pregnancy and childbirth and might actually fall apart the next time around. This sounds trivial but it wasn't easy healing after Fraser, especially my stitches.
4. No sleep for another 12 months.
5. Another couple years before we can take them biking and backcountry camping and swimming and general outdoor adventuring.
6. Do people still invite you to visit with three?

Any thing we're missing for either category?

I am one of three (technically three-and-a-half now but that's a thread all of it's own...) and I turned out alright.....we had holidays and playdates and shared bedrooms. Can't help with the yucky-at-pregnancy thing though. And I can't think of any other pros and cons. So really not much help there then.

Essie- I second the banana. Nappies could be tooth-related though. Even if they don't come through, moving seems to set Cecily's bum off. But my PFB does have a terribly delicate constitution (not helped by eating the dog's breakfast this morning.)

Hope Amber has a lovely holiday

I'll join the my-pelvic-floor-should-be-better-than-it-is club. All that skipping yesterday, I reckon.

Oh, and the playhouse went up yesterday.....only 3 weeks until B-day

Abdn - As ds2 would say - "so far so good " with 3 children. Here are my points -

Pros -
Most of the year we've only had 2 bedrooms here so boys were all in one - it's not impossible.
3rd child is in my experience laid back and easy going
It is possible to sleep (8-6.30 for the last few weeks, but don't tell anyone)
3rd labour - my quickest, no pain relief and no stitches
You already have all the baby stuff, maternity clothes etc, unless like Rolf it's all in storage
it is lovely for 2nd child to become a big brother
dc1 and dc2 take it in turns to look after dc3 when needed!

Cons - as parents you are outnumbered by your children
You have to split your affection 3 ways/4 including dh
Not so many people are willing to look after all 3 for you
Hotel rooms do seem a problem but apartments are the way to go!

That's all I can think of for the moment, I am so pleased that we decided to go for #3. My attitude was that we would try for 6 months or so and if it didn't happen then (at age 39) it wasn't meant to be. We made our decision when I had the Mirena removed.

Essie - yes the nappies could be tooth related, they usually are here.

Hi there,

Oh, ok, then, I'll admit to a dodgy pelvic floor here too. My own fault because I can't be bothered, but when I had a bad cold before Easter and was sneezing lots, well, by about the third sneeze, I was the Tena lady ad. (That's leaking, not prancing around on beaches in white trousers.) I should have taken it as a warning, but since I don't generally leak, I'm lazy...well, it will be incontinence pads for me as I get older unless I get squeezing!

Thanks Puree and Deb - I hope it is teeth. He was quite unsettled last night - nothing extreme, but fussy from time to time.

Abdn I'm one of three so can only speak of my experiences as a sibling. My parents planned two children, but accidents happen... we had very little money because of that, but then again I don't remember sadness or struggles. (I think my Mum does...). We had a 3 bed house, my sister and I shared, and my brother was in the boxroom! My sis and I hated that for a long time, but brothers are a different matter apparently.
I will list the cons, because I love my brother and sister and there are millions of pros! (One is that my brother, the youngest, was an extremely easy baby and is very kind and loving. I totally agree with Deb on third children.)
Cons: three is a difficult number, and there tend to be pairings; two against one. I often felt left out becuase my brother and sister are closer in age.
Hotels: yes, a problem. We didn't have hotel holidays, but stayed in caravans, and self catering cottages etc. We loved staying on caravan sites when we were little!
We were boisterous, and you really notice when there are three children being lively.

Here's a big con. (For me, anyway!) I know someone who decided, after much consideration, to go for a third. She had twins.

On the pregnancy issue, well, I had a really awful one with Iestyn and it's made me think twice about having another one. You may have noticed my silence on the TTC conversations!

Aberdeen - the bedroom issue, imo, can be got round. Sharing a room is fine - my boys share and once I think DD1 won't eat Thea the girls will share, too.

Agree that it's much harder to palm them off on other people once you have 3.

I'm conscious that the boys are spending a lot of their childhood waiting for the little ones to be big enough to do things, or else doing activities with just 1 parent rather than the whole family.

I reckon everyone's body/sanity has its limit - I feel as though my body is totally trashed after 4 babies.

BUT

personally, I love love love having 4 children, and I loved having 3. With 1, then 2, I felt as though the family wasn't complete.

the variety of interraction and relationships is so much more complex with more children. Less 4-square, iyswim.

I think it does the children good to be able to play with other age groups. It does my big football mad 9 year old a lot of good to be gentle with the girls, or to roll around with DD1. And it is good for DS2 to be a big brother to the girls, and not in DS1's shadow all the time.

Deb - storage comment - oh ha ha ha. . I am trying to offload our baby stuff now, actually, and there's an assylum seeker's centre in Liverpool where they take baby things so I'm going to try there.

AH - oh how I am laughing at the easy third baby comments, what with my little monster who drove me insane for 4 months refusing to take a bottle or feed awake. And who still wakes up 4 x plus a night.

He is though, completely in love with his older siblings, and they do an ace job of looking after him when I need to cook tea etc. And dc2 loves being a big sister. We do cottage holidays in this house and an extra body makes very little difference there. The only people who have ever had my kids are their grandparents and they are fine with an extra one, especially asb ds1 and dd now 8 and 5.5 so less trouble to take care of. You do need a larger car but we already had a Picasso so no probs there.

I didn't feel we were done at 2, and I am thrilled we had Jamie, but I am glad we left a longer gap. DD still got to be the baby until she was old enough for it not to matter and a third is easier with two little helpers. That would be my top third tip actually.

Hi just quick post cos my dad's computer is sooo slow it drives me to distraction !

Too much has happened for me to comment but couple of things:

Morten Harket is GORGEOUS!! He was my pin up when I was a teenager and I still would !

I'm one of four for the reason Essie mentioned, mum wanted one more and got twins! So can't comment on threes but four is fab - why not just go for it and have TWO more AH!

Hi to everyone else x

AH - I'm an only child so no help on this for you.

I saw AHA at Guildfest a couple of years ago (Guildford's answer to Glastonbury is a v genteel affair sponsored by radio 2). Morten is very gorgeous. I really enjoyed the set too. Definitely go to the concert Amber. Have a great holiday too.

Essie - thanks for asking about the sleep. I have noticed your silence on ttc, but don't worry I am quiet on that front too, largely because I don't know what I want, and I certainly don't want it yet . So... P is generally sleeping 8 till 5 give or take the odd half hour. Then I feed him and he generally goes another 40mins. This means that he normally starts his day by 6.30. However for the last three days I have brought him into bed at 5.30 and then he has fed and dozed till 8am. It is v. v. nice indeed. No idea why the change, and the other positive is that he then doesn't need a morning nap so lasts until lunchtime which makes going out for morning activities all the better.

Ooh, also meant to say to Sponge that I have been precribed iron tablets too. My iron levels are a bit low: normal is 15+; I am at 13. Maybe we should set up a support thread for anaemics doing dodgy poos because of the iron tablets

Essie - P had about 3 days last week of diahorreah, complete with nappy rash. It sorted itself out. I assumed it was a bug. P only has half of one tooth through, I always think he is on the cusp of producing the second one though.

AH - on the pg thing, my c/s means that my pelvic floor has been very well preserved. However this is about the only positive of a c/s that I can think of.

I'll agree with Sybil - having a bigger gap is great as the boys are so good with Ethan, but I do worry that in the future Ethan will feel left out as he trails behind his brothers.

Ethan is blowing spectacular bubbles out of his nose today and dh is still feeling rough. Boys have a 4 day weekend but dh isn't up to going away, weather's rubbish and we can't go swimming until ds2 has his stitches out on Monday.

Poor you Debs, you are obviously suffering at your house. Hope people start to feel better soon.

I see the mmr debate has kicked off again in AIBU. When do they have the first immunisation? I guess we can't be too far away from that whole debate.

Thanks so much everyone! I just read all this to DH and we really appreciate getting your opinions. It's impossible to get people's take on it in RL, as if you have three you always say you love it or if you have two, you always say you're so glad you stopped IYSWIM.

DH said that the interaction issue that rolf and others mentioned is the biggest draw for him. He has a difficult relationship with his brother (we're both from families of two kids) and wishes there had been a third child to break up the competition.

sybil as fraser's been so much more challenging than ds1, we wouldn't be surprised if a third was even more exhausting than the others - in a way it's nice to hear that not all third children are angels. When we were expecting fraser everyone told us he'd be a great sleeper because 2nd children are and it made me feel more isolated when he then was a crap sleeper (except this thread!!!).

We love camping and self-catering anyways so that's a plus and it's nice to hear that sharing a room isn't a problem for some of you!

We'd have to have a bigger age gap than this time (2 years) as we can't afford three kids in nursery - but I'm not ready to be pregnant again this time either and last time I was.

Thank you everyone!!!

sybil jamie's still up 4x a night? hugs!!!

ali glad P is sleeping a bit better! Fraser is starting to get into a pattern like that and I'm really hopeful it'll stick.

essie I had a horrible pregnacy with DS1 too, it is absolutely miserable and everyone expects you to be joyous all the time. Horrible! Good thing they are so worth it. For what it's worth, I think that having a longer break (3 years?) between my two kids would have made my life much much easier. I definitely don't regret it (since I wouldn't have Fraser, but some other baby, and I love him!!!!) but I can see how much easier it would be now that DS1 is older and more independent. But on the other hand, there's nothing that says having more than one is necessary. The nicest family I know, with the happiest, most wonderful 10 year old, is a family of three. I have said to his parents that if my boys turn out as great as him, I'll consider myself blessed.

ah can't add anything to wise words of the gurus deb and rolf but it is heartening to hear there is life after just one - I have 4 nieces/nephews and they seem to rub along fine -agree with debs issue that can be tricky for the littlest but my niece seems to cope. and re holiday thing , aren't camping/apartments/house hire the better thing anyway as much easier than faffing round trying to see if hotel has a high chair etc etc. Also sympathise re the gap but my issue is I'm not getting any younger (and nor is dh) so am not sure I have the luxury of leaving it .

have got the xt here essie and a quest in france - and I think the issue is madam likes to be carried so not sure there is a pushchair around that would solve that issue ! and thanks for words of encouragement. and you hadn't mentioned re teeth but that could definitely be a nappy messing issue.

sybil sorry about the nightwakings

right better turn my attention back to having control of the remote again

ah can't add anything to wise words of the gurus deb and rolf but it is heartening to hear there is life after just one - I have 4 nieces/nephews and they seem to rub along fine -agree with debs issue that can be tricky for the littlest but my niece seems to cope. and re holiday thing , aren't camping/apartments/house hire the better thing anyway as much easier than faffing round trying to see if hotel has a high chair etc etc. Also sympathise re the gap but my issue is I'm not getting any younger (and nor is dh) so am not sure I have the luxury of leaving it .

have got the xt here essie and a quest in france - and I think the issue is madam likes to be carried so not sure there is a pushchair around that would solve that issue ! and thanks for words of encouragement. and you hadn't mentioned re teeth but that could definitely be a nappy messing issue.

sybil sorry about the nightwakings

right better turn my attention back to having control of the remote again

and mmr is just after first birthday I think - tbh I've not done that much research on it but having seen the press re andrew whathsiface being a bit of a wrong un and thinking about the alternative (e catchign measles ) which is a real prospect as I live slap in teh middle of earth mother middle class we know best ville , I am not sure I'd take the risk of not vaccinating.

Just popping in to say today didnt go well, Oli is still have a huge amount of seizures even when you wouldnt know she is having them
Think I will vanish off the face of the earth for a bit, its all getting too much, someone up there has got it in for me.

On a non baby note, yesterday I got a flat tyre, noticed at nursery thought I would make it home(got another mum to follow me just incase)

Im a bit of a tough old bird and set about to change it myself(I currently a 7 seater, and my new car is shinny new sitting in the garage to be collected) Anyway the other Mum sent her Hubby round to check if there was anything he could help with. Are you ready for this???!

There was no spare wheel, no jac, no wheel brace god knows what has happend to it all has it been Knicked, did the garage never give us one and we have never noticed as its under the car???

Anyway It was a carry on I could have done well without, Drama always seems to come kncoking at my door.

Love to you all xxxx

Well, poppy, just think of the arm toning you'll get!
I am hoping that the nasty nappies are linked to teething - Iestyn doesn't seem unwell in any way, and it's 1-2 of these nappies per day. But Ali did you jinx me with your talk of nappy rash? I'm feeling terrible. Iestyn was eating his tea in his high chair, and seemed uncomfortable, trying to stand up and get out of the chair etc. I knew he'd done a poo (could smell it - God, how gross am I eating my tea with that next to me?!) but figured it was nearly bathtime, no point in changing him. Went upstairs at bathtime, and lo, he had a raging rash. Like a burn. Poor guy, I feel so bad. I've slathered him in Metanium now.

MMR is coming up soon - I'm worried because my fab HV is having a baby and Iestyn might be missed. (FIL = microbiologist, BF = epidemiologist, both hot on disease and vaccination...and measles kills.)

Who else was I going to respond to? I'll wave instead at Sybil, AH and anyone else I've failed to respond to.

x-posted Josey. Wish I had that magic wand. Take care, kisses to Oli, but also you - take care of yourself.

josey poor you - that is all you can do with . Am so sorry about oli xx

essie yes -it seems you can go from nought to burning bum pretty quickly sometimes

and I am going to be ripped like arnie - in the words of my dss "just look at them guns" ...

Oh Josey, I was thinking about you today. Take care of yourself and big hugs to Oli. You know where we are when you need us.x

Josey take care and like others have said, you know where we are when you need us.

Deb yes I was accused of being Lukes grandmother the other month. I was shocked too. So much so the grey hair got to me the other week, so I have finally dyed it for the first time in about 6 years. I thought having it hi-lighted would blend in better, but now it's getting beyond a joke.

Essie we have a Taid as well.

Now you guys are going to hate me. Luke goes to bed after his 3rd bottle of the day anywhere between 7 and 7.30pm. He then has to be woken up in the mornings. Some weekends, we don't get him up until after 10am! Even if he does wake up he just coos and goes in his cot and then sometimes falls back to sleep. He never screams to be gotten up
DS1 also sleeps 7pm-7am and he's just turned 5. Obviously they both get less sleep if DH is away or has an early start as I need to get them to my Mum's early so I can be in the office for 7am.

Josey .

I am speechless with admiration at your tyre-changing abilities, though!

DH suggested having another baby, the lunatic (or lunar-take, as DD1 says) . I think he thought it would improve his chances of getting laid and our condoms are beyond their use-by date!

josey you're tough but definitely not old!!! Am sorry to hear about Oli and am going to text you about getting together. I might just show up on your doorstep too!

poppy another friend of mine had her two 19 months apart and has found it brilliant... so any age gap works (a mum at my plagroup had a 10 month gap (seriously) and she's survived and the kids play nicely now).

and I am 100% in favour of the MMR. It's at 13 months here.

essie and everyone else... DS1 had prescription nappy cream called Timodine and it is brilliant. If your LOs have persistent nappy rash, don't bother with the over-the-counter stuff.

Three more non-working days left before I'm back in the office...