December 06 - Light at the end of the tunnel

[weirdbird]

A new thread for us all

Good idea Margo. Will remember to draw blind in kitchen first so I don't frighten the neighbours

castles
2nd the sleep clinic although I think they start at 8 months. Took ds1, was fantastic and they didn't make me do cc (I wasn't keen). He still didn't sleep thru until 15 months (albeit occassionally) but it took him from waking 3 times a night and then 5am starts to once a night and a later start.
Figured out ds2's early feed was due to light in his room, he was fine on hols in with his brother with a blackout blind. Now he's going through to 6.30 again.
Back from hols, drove all night, got in at 3.30am and really no sleep since. Felt alright until dp and I had massive fight over lunch and he walked out. no idea where that came from but he threatened to leave me at one point so feeling a bit sore.
Oli, sending massive, massive sleep vibes your way!!
GS, good news on the biting! DS2 got his first yesterday so I'll have to see...
WB, feeling better???

Thanks for he sympathy, folks. Really need it, had another horrific night, wakings every 1.5 to 2 hours, up for the day at 5 and taking forever to settle to sleep. He won't even fall asleep in the car. Every journey I've done in the last few days he's just screamed from the moment I put him in his seat until we get to where we're going. . I'm so close to the end of my tether with it, I nearly threw him on my bed in frustration tonight, I only just managed to get enough control to put him down and walk away . It took me 2.5 hours to get him to sleep tonight, all the progress we made with the NCSS stuff has just gone out of the window, I just have to pat his bottom constantly, he won't settle in my arms, or in bed with me, he has to be in his cot so my back ends up killing me but as soon as I stop patting he starts fussing and the whole cycle starts again. I just don't know what to do. I just can't cope with it by myself, ds2 is so attached to me that he barely lets dh cuddle him at the moment, never mind put him to bed and dh only has the weekend to help anyway. God, it's just so awful, I just want him to sleep, it's affecting my relationship with him because I spend the whole day dreading the night and he's so damn tired that he's clingy and grumpy all the time. Ds1 and dd are suffering because I'm knackered and short tempered with them. It's just shit.

Apologies everyone, for language, spelling and grammar! Had to get that off my chest.

Thanks, Eli and AQ, I'm going to phone the HV tomorrow and ask about sleep clinics. I don't want to go down the cc route - I know how long he can scream for! But I need to do something. We just can't carry on like this.

Eli, he's always been a rubbish sleeper but he's going from bad to worse at the moment.

Medised doesn't work. He's had it a couple of times (for genuine colds ) and it's made no difference at all. If I thought it made a difference he'd be having it by the pint at the moment .

Jabber, I honestly just think it's bad habits with him. I know a lot of it stems from getting the bf established and just feeding him whenever he woke, then not putting him in his cot to fall asleep on his own early enough, plus a bit of co sleeping and really just wanting sleep so doing whatever it took to gt it. Trouble is, it's backfired big style now. I can't believe I've made so many mistakes with my third!

The other thing is, he's a very sensitive baby. He jumps at the slightest thing, any sort of sudden noise, be it a car, a bang, voices, makes him startle while he's going to sleep, and I think he's just such a different temperament to the other 2 that I'm a bit at sea with him.

Feeling calmer now, going to go and have a drink and veg in front of some rubbish telly for a bit.

Cant keep up but just wanted to say OLI I'm sure this will be just a phase/illness/teething. Try and take a few minutes out for yourself. Shut the door on him if you have to. If he's that grumpy another minute or two wont make that much difference.

Have you given him any medised? (sorry if obvious) He could be in pain from teething and it may help. I find medised the best.

Are you carrying him in a sling during the day? That might help. Or have you tried you hipseat yet? Is he happy on that?

Take a deep breath. keep telling yourself that this will pass soon (you know it will) and dont beat yourself up about feeling knackered. It happens to us all.

x-post oli.

Bad habits can be undone. It just takes a bit of patience. Try and work out what routine you'd like him to have and start it tomorrow. It wont make a blind bit of difference at first but gradually it will sink in...

Oli, I have huge sympathies for you xxx Ds1 is exactly the same and has been prescribed pgenergan, then piriton but neither made him drowsy at all
It is shit isn't it I am considering sleep clinic but just worried that with 4 other children it will be disruptive to them?
I do think the babies are now reaching a few milestones, teething, sitting crawling ect.... so I suppose it must be overwhelming for them. But on the other hand you would think it might tire them out a little hey
{{{Hugs}}} to you xx

I know I can't spell but I don't care

Oh, dear Oli, it's going from bad to worse. I can only imagine how frustrated and tired you must be. But please don't blame yourself for bad habits, we all do what we 'shouldn't' to get through situations at the time. He's very different from the others so just cos he's your third doesn't mean you have all the answers!
The sleep clinic I went to asked for 2 weeks worth of diaries before the appointment. They looked at the whole picture - solids, bf, naps as well as nighttime sleep. In the beginning I changed the solids and bf routine rather than sleep. And at no point was I advised to do cc. I did eventually do it with ds1 but it never really worked cos I had to keep repeating it and I lost heart. The best thing about it was. You could just ring them to start with to get some advice before you have an appointment come through, there's usually trained staff in sleep problems at every clinic, I think.
Is he in discomfort, do you think, with all of this? I've lost track of whether your ds has reflux? But the behaviour to me sounds like my ds2 when he was younger because the wind was bothering him so much, he just couldn't sleep without taking hours about it (patting, rocking etc). Would only nap for 20 mins before waking screaming etc. Is this a possibility or am I just stating the bleeding obvious etc etc. Anyway, hugs hugs hugs.

and of course hugs hugs hugs to magnolia too. I think worth trying sleep clinic or you will go mad, can't see how it would affect the other kids more than now when surely he's waking regularly and making noise?

Dur, 'the best thing about it' was knowing that it could be solved because they hadn't come across a problem that couldn't be solved!
Have either of you posted a thread in sleep?

I did go on the sleep is for the weak thread but its too fast for me

At the moment I am feeding him when he wakes in the night so it doesn't wake the others

Hi all

All just about well again here, so pleased, its Sports Day tomorrow for DD1, am hoping there isnt a mums race! everything jiggles just a little too much at the moment! Have to hold things if I need to run G

{{{OLI}}} - Huge hugs and sympathy, and DO get it all out here, it helps so much to get off your chest just how crap you are feeling sometimes it can help a huge amount, is there anyone around who would take him for a night just to give you a break?

Just try and remember that this won't last forever and I can remember how I was with DD1 who did just cry all the time and I thought I was gonna end up being sectioned I got so desperate, but it will get better, just try and remember that and hold on!

Wish I could do something more to help!

Oh, big hugs to Mags, Oli and AQ. Wish I could offer some comfort.

Definitely second the idea of HV & Sleep Clinic, we did CC (well my DH did it more, I used to have to leave the house!) with DD1 eventually, but it only took a few days and she got the message.

Magnolia - Had hoped things had improved on the sleep front, I really don't know how you keep going!

Hey. My dd (also dec06) has had the same trouble with getting to sleep on journeys. It seems that anything wakes her up too. We have to keep our older dds from making too much noise upstairs when she's in bed, and she has not slept in our room since she was really tiny as we woke her up when we rolled overin our bed, etc.
She now sleeps upstairs in her cot for part of the night (7 til 11),then has a cuddle and milk feed and sleeps downstairs in a travel cot the rest of the night. Sounds bad, but this way we all get sleep, and she doesn't have grumpy sleep deprived parents.
Ok, i know that won't help, but it shows there may be a solution of some type if you can brainstorm with enough people.

You have my sympathy anyway, hope you get an answer soon.

Godzilla, my dh wants to do that but I can't
I do think maybe it's us waking ds1 but I like to keep them in with us as long as poss and then he is going in with dd4 (age 4) so she will get woken

Oli & magnolia - It's a horrible cycle to be in, just a little extra sleep brings a whole different perspective on it all. Anyway, thinking of you both.

Hello Godzilla btw

Thank you so much everyone. It makes me feel a 1000 times better to know I'm not the only one going through this and that other people understand how crap it is. I think dh doesn't really get how wearing it is, night after night, especially as he's not here in the week so he doesn't get the full picture iykwim. I know I'm not the first to go through this and I certainly won't be the last and other people have it worse than me, but at the moment, urk, it's just awful. Magnolia, I have no idea how you manage with 5 and no sleep, 3 is bad enough - ((hugs)) for you too. I've definnitely lost a bit of perspective too, because in reality he's only been this bad since Saturday. Up until then he was doing okayish. He just seems to be stuck in an overtired cycle that I can't break.

Plan of action today is, phone HV and get the ball rolling with the sleep clinic. DH is off on summer hols for 4 weeks starting next week so we're in a good position to tackle it once and for all. I don't care if he doesn't sleep 7 - 7, I just want fewer than 5 wake ups and a 5am start.

Godzilla, we live in a 3 storey house so he'd have to be on a completely different floor or share with ds1 and dd. If it gets that bad I will move him but at the moment it's easier to have him in with us.

AQ, I don't think it's anything other than just wanting me tbh. He spends all day being carried because he complains if I put him down unless I'm sat next to him. The Hippychick is a godsend - maybe I should just sleep standing up with him perced on it .

Oli, sorry it's so hard (and Magnolia too). I had quite a hard time with DD1 and probably ended up with PND. She used to scream for 7 hours at a time. My advice is firstly get DS1 checked out to make sure he's ok (sure he is btw) and then get DH (or other family) to look after all of them over the weekend so you can have a really good sleep during the day. Try and do this regularly. I have learnt the hard way. DH is away all week as you know but he always lets me have a sleep sometime over the weekend. Sleep deprivation is the biggest cause of PND IMO. I'm not saying you are going to get depressed btw, but you must be pretty run down. You owe it to yourself & your LOs & your DH .
Also, DD2 wanted to be held all the time. Now she's sitting/crawling she plays for ages and seems more independent. I also encourage the other 2 to entertain her What stage is DS2 at?
Finally, re car travel, DD2 also hates rear facing travel so I've been putting her in the forward facing one (she's pretty long) and she loves it. Worth a try?

AQ, hope you are OK?

Oh and if he is teething, sound's like he could be, I always find Neurofen a better knock-out than Medised. Definitely better pain relief IME. I think DD2 is more sensitive than my other 2 (like your DS2) and she has been kicking up an almighty fuss since she's been teething. Teething was just not an issue with DS & DD1.

Does anyone else think our December babies are a sensitive/demanding bunch?

Omg, I didn't think of Nurofen. Dd4 is not allowed it due to athsma so we never have it in the medicine cupboard. Might get some later
We have put ds1 in a forward facing carseat now in the fully reclined positionas I normally wait till 9 months but he is heavy. He loves it

He ate a cheese sandwich today

Dh really doesn't think his reflux is making him unhappy at night but I'm not sure I think maybe it's more habit now than anything.

castles - dec babies are hard work - ask my mum, I am one!

bugger - didn't change my nickname (it's Margo)