These babies are going to be calm, easy and sleepy at all the right times, and we're brooking no argument about it!

[Biscuitsandtea]

In here ladies - the other thread was getting full up so I thought I'd better start a new one.....

Will do some links to / from this thread but in the meantime please make yourselves at home

Hawthers I really hope today goes better .

Are you concerned about the amount ds1 eats or just the time? I guess after all the weight concerns in his early days it must be engrained in to you to worry about what's going in?

I did realise eventually that ds1 just doesn't always need to eat a lot. He'll go through phases of eating lots and other times he will hardly ever finish a meal. Because he's big and his daddy always has had a big appetite people always assume he must be a big eater and he just isn't.

So for me the issue wasn't so much how much he was eating it was the time taken and the fact that he wouldn't let me take the plate away. So he would say he was still hungry but really still wouldn't be eating anything no matter how long I gave him and I used to get SO frustrated with him! Honestly though my timer thing really helped. We were calm about it and I explained what was going to happen before the meal started (as in 'I don't like shouting at you, I'm going to give you 30 minutes and then that will be the end of the meal). He did still cry at first when I took it away but gradually it did make a difference and eventually he has learned that it is ok to say he has finished a meal when he's full up and actually part with the plate. If he is being slow now and I suggest putting the timer on he really doesn't like that idea (so I've probably mentally scarred him forever but then shouting at him for every meal wasn't doing either of us any favours!) and on the while mealtimes are loads better.

Interestingly ds1 was about 3 when we had the problem - I wonder if it is an age thing?

Any I really really hope it turns a corner for you soon xx

Thanks dream and biscuits for your wise words. I can't ever relax about how much he eats. He is on about the 5th percentile for weight and the Dietician has suggested that if he eats more calories then he might get taller as he is really very small.

It's the time he takes to eat so little. He isn't fussy and will eat most things but it can take 30 mins to eat a quarter of a sandwich. I timed it last night and he had the same mouthful in there for 3 minutes.I bought a variety pack of cereal thinking he might be bored but he hasn't eaten them well either. We've just had 30 mins for a bowl of cereal. Which I took away after explaning that breakfast wasn't going to go on as long. He cried so I gave it back saying if he didn't eat I'd take it away. So of course he didn'tand so I took it away again and more tears/tantrums.

Right so do we think 30 mins is appropriate for a meal time? I no longerhave any judgement left on these things.

Sorry for thread hijack not too sure where to post on mn about this

It's so hard isn't it Hawthers

I think 30 mins is long enough for cereals or a sandwich. I might give longer at first for a main meal?

I think I might have posted on here in the behaviour / development section about it - that would at least be a starting point as they might know where it should go even if that isn't the right place?

Ds1 use to do the same thing - cry if I took it away but not actually eat it if I have it back.

It's extra complicated for you though with worries about his weight. Can you make sure his food is high in calories so that why he does eat gets as many calories as possible in?

I wonder whether it would be worth speaking to a specialist about it given the extra need to make sure he is actually getting the calories in as we never had that concern with ds1 - he still seemed to be growing etc and doing ok so it was more of just a behavioural thing with him.

Could the dietician help with it?

hawthers - I would be a mess in that situation - I find what they eat so emotional somehow! When dd1 was about 11 months she lost weight due to illness and the hp got all nasty with me talking about testing her for this and that. She said to put her a diet where I added butter, cream and oil to everyting she ate. dd1 refused everything when I started doing that (although I discovered that double cream and yoghurt is AMAZING). So I just gave her lots of fattening foods like cake, fromage frais, biscuits, puddings, mashed potato with eveything etc. I kept all the 'junk' food as healthy as I could (i.e. home made or deli type cake rather than processed - probably snobbery rather than any actual factual base).
When dd2 was born dd1 she went on hunger strike for a couple of weeks. I pretty much gave her anything she'd eat for two weeks - chocolate, cake, ice cream etc. It seemed to work.
Sometimes just eating anything can kickstart appetite again is what I'm trying to say, so, if I were you I'd go with cakes and chocolate.

However this is just random advice from a sugar addict. I had an amazing experience with the dieticans at the hospital for dd2 - the hv (a different one!) referred me.

I meant to say Scarlet glad dd is getting the hang of the food a bit. Ds1 was a bit like your dd when we weaned him. We waited until 6 months but no weaning book says what to do if they really just don't seem bothered at all by it. It took me a week to get a spoon actually in his mouth . He eats fine of course now but he's never been hugely bothered by food. He's never bothered if we have breakfast at 10am whereas ds2 gets hungry and tells you about it (even though he's just had a bf!)

Gosh Hawthers I was just thinking - F must be nearly 1!!!!! How can this be? Where has this year gone? I'm struggling also with the idea that ds2 will be 8 months 1 week today

I need a sit down I think....

F is indeed nearly 1 - how!?

The Dietician has been great and we've got all the tricks about adding oil, fat and cream to everything. Our problem is that he although he will eat almost anything he just takes an age to do it and its boring. Think we need to be firmer on the time and keep on doing it until it becomes ingrained rather than stopping after a week. also he happily wolfs down biscuits and cake so he is fine on that front.

So, The No-Cry Sleep Solution arrived today. So far some of it is unbearably twee (such as the 2-page-long paen of praise for her DH at the beginning, and the Mother-Speak sections), and she goes into a long cio bash at the beginning, basically reinforcing the idea that anyone who lets their baby cio is evil. Still, I shall persevere - want a book report when I'm done?

I'd be interested too - I've got it, have read bits of it (skipped some parts - some of it is just not me given that I've been quite a reluctant bf-er at times!!). I found the 'pantley pull-off' a useful start to breaking the feeding to sleep association but I did have to do other things.

I love the tutu thinG! I've bought dd1 a proper tutu skirt thing for xmas and I think she'll love it!!

hawthers, sounds very hard. I also find food an emotional issue, and worry daily about what little variety DD eats, virtually no veg (the odd pea is consumed), no oily fish, no loads of things I'd like her to eat. plus too much sugar and too many 'junky' things. And that's with a 50th centile type child, who while not chubby is not really skinny either. If there are huge concerns, are you offered growth hormones? This is a story of no real point but maybe encouraging- my friend's brother (who's now grown up, obviously, 27 or 28 I think) was tiny and on strong steroids for his asthma which also affect growth. His parents were offered growth hormones which they ummed and ah-ed over as they were worried about the side effects versus the consequences of being very small as a man and left him alone with no growth hormones. Now he's 5'10" I think- you'd never know he'd been tiny anyway, so there's the possibility he may grow just fine overall regardless. and they obviously don't know who'll catch up and who won't as they were fairly definite he was so small it was a big concern. I had a friend who was similar (but a girl) and they also refused growth hormones and she did grow loads more as a teenager. Think she's still petite as an adult, but her mum is 4'11 and petite too, so partly her genes I'm sure. And like their parents you'll have years of worry over it as there's no definite :( I'd worry too, but I also try to remind myself that, as long as you're not severely underweight, there are far less health consequences from being on the smaller, lean side than overweight. Cheers me up anyway. What happens at nursery? Does he finish his meal, and in roughly the same time as the other children or not? Sorry, I'm not much use, and its SO much easier to have perspective when its not your child... And being tired worsens everything. We had a bad night last night, and after my good day yesterday I realised just how irrational I become when sleep deprived. Yesterday i was all sane, not worried over the boys, or DD, and just enjoyed them, and the good bits of the day and put up with the frustrating/ hard/ testing bits. Today, really tired again, I've been struggling, a lot.

Ach, I'll stop rambling.

all round

Oh, and too, yes, would like report as I can't be bothered to read it . Sorry, should have just sent you mine. I've got the sleep one and the nap one... And of course all those who do CIO are evil . Most on my twins thread have/ are doing it... Harder with two to do other techniques I think, as if one is screaming blue murder I don't know how you can soothe the other...? Cross fingers, touch wood etc etc my two have been put down wide awake with comforters and white noise and gone to sleep without crying (some re settling for B) most nights for a week now. Eeek! Probably all change next week though...

Oh- but it better not all change as I'm currently doing twins bath/ dress (helped by dh sometimes, or sometimes he does this while the other attacks kitchen devastation)/ boob/ stick one on my bed, go to their room, stick other in cot, come back, stick second in cot, cd on, downstairs, get DD (who's been abandoned with the telly on her dvd while we bath/ clear up) do her bath/bed routine as only mummy will do... . Not exactly slick!

I've missed you ladies! The last few days have been insanely hectic, mostly dealing with unexpected hurdles relating to Autumn's naming ceremony coming up on Sunday. The process hasn't been helped by a stonking cold and Autumn giving up any semblance of nighttime sleeping, or sleeping anywhere other than on me!

I've spent the entire day baking a ma-HOO-sive naming day cake. A 14" double-layer devils food cake for the bottom tier, and 10" triple-layer angel cake for the top tier. Both iced and wrapped in fondant. Tomorrow I decorate the cake with "autumn" branches and leaves made from fondant icing. Yesterday I iced my Nan's Jamaican rum cake with v amateur piped frosting and criss-crossed fondant flags, one Jamaican and one union jack. Saturday will be spent helping my sister frost her lemon cupcakes for the day. Does anyone get the impression there might be rather a lot of cake about on Sunday?!

I have to stay up and write an entire naming ceremony from scratch tonight, mainly because my evil BIL has decided he really can't be bothered to attend the ceremony and flew back to Switzerland yesterday despite the fact that DH deliberately chose this weekend for the ceremony because his bro originally said he would be going back to Switzerland next week. Instead of getting mad at his precious perfect bro, DH instead got all upset that this meant only my family would be speaking in the ceremony, and wanted to change it so that us/the celebrant do all the talking. I agreed solely because my family HATE public speaking and were all dreading having to speak anyway. So now I have to write all the bits that were supposed to be speeches by other people. Grrr.

I'm very sorry for the horrific me-me-me of this post. I'm just a little stressed out and I really appreciate the chance to vent with you ladies. I have my head so completely stuffed with naming day stuff I can't seem to think of anything else! Pretty please would some kind generous person summarise the recent goings-on in NoBrookerVille for me please, there's no way I'll be able to catch up on the thread before Monday...

Hey scream how lovely to hear from you. DH's brother sounds like an arse. Presumably he's your DH's closest relative given what you've told us before. How sad for your DH that he's changed his mind about coming to A's naming party. I'd be pee'd off about having to change all the speech plans, but it's nice that you've agreed to it.

The cakes sound amazing! I would sooo love to try some of the devils food cake. Take plenty of pics for us to nose at

We're planning DD's Christening at the moment and I intend to be lazy and order a cake from our local bakers. I will single handedly be preparing the rest of the food though. Our celebration after the church is only for about 20 though so not on the same scale as stress as yours. Our stress is family politics instead, but that's a whole other thread...

Thanks for the Leappad info Ninja. I think that's the one we're going for. It looks like it might stay appealing for longer compared to the Vtech. The Vtech one one looks good for now but is a bit more kiddy looking and we want him to use it for a few years.

Uh Oh. I think DD might actually be pooing at last. The first one since Sunday so it's not going to be pleasant. She was swimming this morning so that's probably kicked started it. At least it wasn't in the pool!

i don't fucking believe it. I have just spoken to our solicitor, we are supposed to be exchanging today and he has told me the mortgage company won't agree to the allowance of 5K to do the essential works. If we can't work something out the whole thing will fall through. DP is in paris and I have both kids. I think I may go and quietly cry in the shower. I am feeling very stressed and I don't like it.

ninja, you poor thing. And breathe.... We nearly didn't exchange then it came good. I will Brook No Argument it will go through. F*cking banks.

Oh ninja! Can you just revert back to the original mortgage and get a loan for the £5k? Tesco ones are good? xxx

Where is everyone?

biscuits? We've not seen you all day. It's so sad, but I'm missing your normal posts

oh ninja that sucks! hope you can get something sorted.

scarlet we are waiting for a big poo from DS2. he's only had a couple of small ones since Tuesday. It's like passing round a small cute unexploded bomb. i was convinced he was going to do it in the supermarket or while MIL was holding him today.

he's only had milk today as i was a bit worried about food bunging him up. seeing as he's about as interested as your DD i didn't think much had gone in but i guess some has.

cakeathon sounds impressive scream! bil sounds like a tool.

dream fx for more good nights!

eh...forgotten the rest and can't scroll back on stupid phone.

brooking lots for all. :)

Helllooooooooo

Sorry for my absence - super manic day but my arse and the sofa are finally reunited

Dream - I am so stupidly pleased that you miss my posts

Ninja AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH What a NIGHTMARE! I do hope things have become a bit more settled or even better been completely sorted out. And poor you dealing with it all and two children and DH away .

Scream how lovely to hear from you. Your cake sounds AMAZING! You have worked so so hard for this naming ceremony and I really hope it goes well for you all. As everyone else says, BIL = tool. Fact. At least he's gone now though.

Scarlet sounds like you're putting in a pretty impressive effort for the food side of things too. We totally copped out and bought sandwich platters and stuff from Morrisons (which I can highly recommend - 2 platters for £10)

How's everyone else doing?

I've forgotten everything else

Laters xx

Oh and Scarlet and Jaggy - hope those poos have been manageable.....

Is the naming ceremony today or tomorrow scream? I'm also glad ebil has gone, I'd have redone speeches to not have him there :)

How did it go yesterday ninja? Did you exchange??

Right Brookers, I'm bricking it about how wrong today will go. Got 2 yo party 11-1. Straight on with boys to wedding dress shop with dsis for 2pm appt. Dh to collect DD from party first! Then friends and children, 3 families, coming to ours for 4ish for food and fireworks. I'm already realising I might not be back from dress shopping when they arrive. Oh feck.

Oh, and nice try jaggy, my two wouldn't give up the milk that easily either :) . Is it one week til work...? :(