The brookers post graduate thread

[hawthers]

We've got so good at brooking no argument for no pregnancy complications and sneeze births, we're going for our Phds in big fat babies

DS2 seems to be quite long and i don't like his wee feet to be too squashed either. he doesn't look too ridiculous in 0-3 month stuff so i think we'll get using that.

he looks quite comical today with fluffy hair sticking up

are you guys on dc2 a bit overwhelmed with clothes? people are just so generous for a new baby we seem to have masses of stuff all of a sudden. i always feel bad for the people who have bought a summer outfit for example and not calculated that it won't fit the baby in summer! i know 2 people due soon, if they have boys i might see if they want some!

Definitely overwhelmed with clothes here! I thought with it being another boy people wouldn't buy clothes but we have got loads! We've been lucky that most people have bought 3-6 mths summer stuff which is perfect (if we actually get some summer weather! ) as ds1 was 3-6 mths in the winter so we have no summer stuff for ds2. We do have a snow suit should we get really inclement weather this summer....

But between the new stuff and the hand-me-downs, he could probably wear each outfit once and never again and still struggle to get through them all before he's in 6-9 mths

we've got stacks of 0-3 this time...

off for more fun with DH's parents.

Look forward to hearing the classic gems later

The colic saga continues here. Ben vomits and refluxes and kicks his legs up and i can't settle him, even to sleep on my chest. So I have added in the dreaded colief. You can give.colief straight away, into freshly expressed milk. Day one of expressing before every feed into a sterile container and adding 4 drops of colief and stuffing it down DT2s neck with a sterilized spoon. Verdict- possible maybe with one baby, and preferably dc1. With a nearly 20 month old and two babies- virtually impossible. Cut short our outing this morning as i was so twitched DT2'd need feeding and I didn't have pump/ sterile container/ sterile spoon and colief with me. Obviously. As I can't manage to hand express every feed this means sterilising pump, pumping tiny amount, adding colief etc etc. I don't know if I can keep it up, or pump enough to add it to milk wait four hours then feed via a bottle within the 12 hour window. That's loads of work too. And it'd be a bottle every feed, even I think that'd be the end of a good latch for bf. But it seems to help. Have done it every feed since 5 am when i couldn't bear how upset he was after 3 hours of fretting in the night too. Plus x 2 gaviscon bottles overnight. Plus sterilizing bottles to give gaviscon with water after feeds in the day.

I am despairing of how long i can keep going. Poor ben. What a bad mother. I feel obliged to do everything I can for him but its so hard. Another night of maybe 3 broken hours sleep. And once dh stops doing a bottle in the night, I won't get any I reckon.... As i end up consoling Ben til Seb wakes again :-( . Unless by some miracle I can keep up the colief...

Today is not a good day.

Both my boys are long. Toes at end of tiny baby for Ben- the up to 7lb 8 stuff, and probably up to the end of next size up. We've been given quite a lot of clothes but mostly 3-6

Forgotten what everyone else wad saying, too busy wallowing in self pity ,-)

biscuits and jaggy at least part of my problem today is the PIL have been up 'helping'. Mil comments: hmm, are they gaining weight? Do you have enough milk? oooh, I don't think they're identical (no shit Sherlock) B's darker colouring, oh isn't he gorgeous? oh S is gorgeous too, his colouring is different, B's hair is a lovely colour, oh, I think S might go more like him, do you think Bs eyes are lighter than S's, oh look at DD's curls, isn't she pretty.... Seriously, there are more important things than their appearance/ colouring. And shut up,please, just for a minute!!!!!

First of all, apologies. I've not kept up with this thread or the PSEPP thread at all the last few days. I will go back and catch up with all of your news once I've typed this post.

Sorry this is going to be a terribly selfish post, but I'm putting on a brave face in RL so I could do with some support.

I have an infection in my CS wound and it's really very sore. It's making it very difficult to move about as it's all stuck together and feels like my skin's ripping apart every time I stand up. I've been on anti-biotics since Thursday and they've given me terrible diahorrea. As I'm breast feeding, they've also given DD diahorrea. It's horrible. I feel so bad for her. She's off her milk, apparently the anti-b's makes it taste bitter. I'm struggling to to get her to have any, then what she does have seems to come straight out the other end.

My staples were supposed to be removed yesterday, but they weren't able to because of the infection so they're in until tomorrow. I'm fed up with feeling so aware of them. My feet and ankles have completely ballooned and I can't even get any shoes on at all. It's from all the fluids and meds I had intravenously over last weekend.

My nipples are sore sore sore. I can't seem to get DD to latch on to the left side properly, but she will do the right. She's lost 9% of her birth weight and was down to 7lb 7oz yesterday. I'm dreading her being weighed again tomorrow. It's like a horrible flashback to when DS was a newborn and sent back to hospital because of his weight loss. I know the reason for it this time, it's just frustrating that I can't do much about it until the anti-b's have finished which isn't until Weds.

DS has been fab. I cannot believe what a good boy he's been. He's so loving towards DD (although he is a bit off with me because I have to keep saying I can't play with him ). DH has also been excellent. I've not have to do anything whatsoever apart from feed DD. But, he's not brilliant with emotional stuff. I just broke down half way through typing this and told him how rough I'm feeling and how frustrated it's made me. He just says he thinks I'm doing really well and that things will get better soon.

I think I am coping much better than I did with DS. That's another thing that's making me feel awful. Guilt. Every time I sit cuddling DD, I think back to DS being a newborn and wish I'd appreciated that time more instead of just trying to get through each day. I don't think I cuddled him enough

Oh my love! What a week you've been through. How awful to feel so uncomfortable all the time. Will it be more comfortable once the staples are out? I do hope so.

I'm so glad that DS is doing well with DD. That is really cute . And glad your DH is being awesome. These are good things indeed.

But you are really going through the mill with the whole wound soreness and feeding thing . In a way, given what you've both been through, 9% weight loss isn't too bad. I think DS2 dropped almost that much and he didn't have anything to contend with like you and DD do. But I know that that doesn't really help as its still so worrying. Especially given that you went through weight worries etc with your DS. It's bound to bring back memories.

Have you tried a bf counsellor or anything? There was a lady you spoke to at the hospital wasn't there a while ago? Would a bf counsellor be able to help with any idea to overcome the taste of the milk at all? Is there anyway to mask the bitterness? Or would they be able to help her being able to latch on to both sides? With your DH being so super could you manage to just just spend some time snuggled up in bed doing some skin to skin with her? Could that help with the latching?

You know we're all here for you though. Any time day and night (pretty much) there's someone knocking around for a bit of emergency moral support.

I know it's so so hard to get through all this. Babies are hard enough work at the best of times without a bloody sore stomach, sore boobs and the need for ABs etc. you're doing amazingly to get through each day. Your DH is right in as much as it will get better and you will get through this. You just need to take it one day at a time. If you can get those staples out tomorrow then that is a good thing. And it must mean that the wound is better than it was on Friday. Still bloody sore no doubt but it must be small steps in the right direction.

Do you have Lansinoh for your nipples Scarlet?

Oh and last thing, I kind of know where you're coming from a wee bit with the feeling guilty thing. I feel a bit guilty that I'm being indulgent cuddling DS2 and I didn't make the most of cuddling DS1 when he was wee (my mother would bang on about never taking him out of the pram blah blah blah and I'm taking a much more balanced approach this time!!). I know that probably isn't exactly how you feel as everyone is different, but I do feel a bit guilty about it. And I feel guilty that ds1 gets a bit of a short shrift now as I'm trying to split my time between them. But I'm trying to make the most of DS1 whenever I can. Trying to hug him or give him my attention when I can. I've dropped any other priority apart from feeding us all. I know it's super hard when you're feeling immobile but even just snuggling up with DS to read a book when you're not on feeding duty? They're still good for cuddles at this age

scarlet, you poor, poor thing. And breathe! The crazy hormones are also at work. You had a scary delivery after a long induction. You have a painful wound infection making it sore to move, plus added diarrhoea- which usually makes moving fast necessary. That is such a lot and despite it all you're still bf and holding it together at home. You really, really are doing so well. My dh is just the same with not 'getting' the emotional side of things when i get upset about missing my little pal and all the things DD and i used to do together before I became a dairy cow/ slave to the DTs.

I'm sure you cuddled ds just plenty. It sounded like we all had great bonds with our dc on the psepp thread. A longer time to bond makes no difference in the long run, if that's even what it was. One of my best friends has accepted she struggled to bond with her ds1. She went back for a few days at work by 8 weeks old and 4 long days by 16 weeks. He is a lovely, gentle, friendly and well adjusted 3 year old. and I'm sure you weren't in that league with ?? less cuddling when you're a dedicated sahm. And everyone tortures themselves with the Mummy Guilt. Fact. You are a loving, caring mum and your dc are very lucky to have you.

I am also coping better than after DD, in terms of getting out and getting on with it, but I am prone to every evening exhausted meltdowns...

Be kind to yourself scarlet and come and vent on here. We'll understand.
(((hugs))))

Oh look, x posts with biscuits who was much more useful with more practical advice scarlet. What she said ^^

I saw a bf network supporter the other day. I fed DD til nearly 15 months and 16 weeks pg with these boys but the lovely lady sorted my boys latches and I can get both on much better now. And I'd been bf til do recently!! As long as I'm not tandem feeding. So i second get all the help you can get with latch/ bf and i found the Breastfeeding Network lady miles more useful than anyone else I'd seen so if one person can't help, go to a bf group etc and find someone better!

I haven't been keeping up with the threads at all I'm afraid, I think all the crappy post-partum hormones kicked in a couple of days ago and I've been wallowing in a pit of self-pity ever since. My breasts are still hugely engorged, which means they've been rock hard, hot and hurting for over a week now. I'm so fed up of the engorgement, and the resulting incessant waterfalls of leakage. The real killer is how impossible it is for DD to latch on properly, so my nipples HURT really badly, plus she's unable to form an airtight seal around the nipple, so she's getting terrible wind after every feed. I feel so guilty when I see how uncomfortable she is!

I'm grateful that my hips are better than they were, but now that I'm only taking the painkillers on a needs-must basis, not all the time, I can feel that my hips are still misaligned and I know it's going to be a long hard slog with the physio to get back to where I was pre-pg. With the crazy hormones floating around in my system I'm just blowing all of this pain out of proportion and getting really down, instead of focusing on the many positives around!

Scarlet it sounds as though you've had such a difficult time, I'm ashamed to even be mentioning my selfish whinges. You've been so strong to come through such a difficult cs, and to have an infection as well :( Sending huge hugs and lots of No Brooking your way. It sounds like you're in such a tough place right now, but you have the support of all the No Brookers, and you WILL get through this! Every day things will improve a little bit more, and soon you'll be on the other side. I hope the staple removal goes well tomorrow, and that it results in an immediate improvement in the soreness.

Also, I share your pain with the sore nipples! Argh!! I have to say if I wasn't so deliriously in love with PFB I'd be thinking of giving up bfing already. I can still hardly believe how much breast pain I go through each day and yet I haven't given up yet. I think at the moment that I can make it through to 2 weeks like this. If the engorgement hasn't gone after two weeks though I'm going to have to seriously consider the best course of action.

Dream this might be a totally bizarre suggestion, so please ignore me if it's too random. My understanding of colief is that it works by breaking down the lactose in milk, that's all it does. The only reason there is lactose in breastmilk is because the Mother eats foods containing lactose. I'm lactose intolerant myself, so I don't eat dairy products, and therefore there would be no need for me to try something like colief because there's no lactose in my milk anyway.

The point of all my rambling is that maybe, since you've already mentioned that the colief does seem to improve Ben's digestion, is it worth considering temporarily giving up dairy food? This doesn't seem weird to me simply because I never eat dairy anyway, but maybe to a normal person this sounds like a crazily extreme suggestion? Apologies if that's the case. I just thought that giving up cheese, milk and ice cream for a few weeks, might be easier than struggling with administering colief?

Whatever you do I'll be No Brooking for you! Sounds like an impossible feat to ebfeed twins AND manage colic!! However you achieve the impossible every day before breakfast This too shall pass...

scream,scarlet and dream - lots of brooking for you all. You are doing amazingly all of you. I wish I had some practical advice but I don't (although dream I had a friend who did the no dairy thing and her ds's colic did improve).

scarlet - if you really press the emotional discussion with your dh are you sure he wouldn't start to understand?

Scream hello my love. I'm so sorry to hear the engorgement bit hasn't gone yet! You poor thing. That must be so uncomfortable . Is it worth trying to speak to a bf counsellor to see if they have any suggestions as to anything you can do to help ease it? Or even the NCT BF helpline (0300 3311 771).

Is it for engorgement that they suggest putting chilled savoy cabbage leaves into your bra???

And your poor hips! When do you get to start with the physio? I know it's going to be incredibly hard work to get everything back to where it should be, but I have no doubt that compared to what you've already been through with the pg, you'll achieve it which your dedication and positive outlook.

Wind wise - is it worth trying Infacol for Autumn? It's supposed to make all the bubbles join together to make them easier to get out? Although I've been using it and DS had just finished a feed with the worst latch. Every time I put him on he'd slip back after a few seconds and the result was he's been gulping down leads of air. So I thought I'd better take him off and wind him before we carry on. Can I get one frigging burp out? Nope! This is going to be so uncomfortable for him later!

You're having a tough time at the moment Scream so do be kind to yourself. And we're here for you as often as you can summons up the energy for a whinge or a rant

Brooking like a good'un for Scream boobs and hips to get with the programme and for a good removal of Scarlet's staples today. I'm really hoping that having the staples out might make it feel less like the skin is pulling etc?

That sounds interesting about the lactose thing Dream? Although I'd be terrible if i had to give up cheese and milk etc (does that include milk chocolate? ), it does sound like less faff than the colief etc - but then that's not hard since the colief sounds like the biggest faff in the world!

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

Much love and brooking all round

Mwah mwah

Hmm. No milk, cheese, chocolate and ice cream would be a disaster!!! I'll have to look into it as its (colief) is for ff babies too. I thought lactose was just the protein in milk but i am very probably wrong....

scream the first bit is fairly shit anyway. No one tells you that. Especially with dc1 when everything is new too and you don't know if/when it'll settle down. It will though, the boobs. Hope the hips start behaving better when the physio starts. How rubbish they're not magically all better with no effort on your part.

Am having a mare this feed... Dh has been a star and as i had 9 or 10 oz of ebm in the fridge I fed at 10 ish, in bed for 10:45, left dh with two babies to wind etc. Slept til 1:20 when he brought them up after bottles, back to sleep til 3:30 but now, 5:10 still not settled as I had way, way too much milk. I pumped 3 oz off each side anyway, coliefed Ben but have been mega, mega vommed, doing outfit changes and can't settle them now, boo!!! Plus DD has woken up, argh! So far she's just singing in her cot though, FX she goes back to sleep....

Morning all!

Not sure where to begin with the no brooking. Scarlet it sounds like you're having a really hard time and coping brilliantly. How long are you on the antibiotics for? Could you bear to express the breastmilk and feed DD on formula from a sippy cup just for a few days if the breast milk is making her unwell? TBH I agree with Dream that part of what you're feeling (especially the guilt) is probably down to those blooming hormones, and hopefully will pass very soon.

My DH is also more of a practical than emotional support. Strange, isn't it?

Scream I do hope the engorgement goes away pronto! How horrible for you to have to cope with it for so long. You're doing so well to keep bfing despite the pain! Have you tried expressing before each feed to help with the latch?

Jaggy your PILs sound like hard work. Any mote gems from the latest visit? and Dream I know what you mean about your MIL's baby voice - grr! My MIL came round yesterday but it was great - I was able to hand over DS and they entertained each other while I did some much-needed housework.

Dream re the colic etc I have no words. Just big hugs.

Not sure if I've already said this, but Biscuits thank you for all your kind words re not worrying about breasts!

Quick question: particularly after night feeds, DS seems quite uncomfortable. He arches his back, almost climbs up my shoulder and makes grunty squeaky distress noises. If I rub his back for an hour or so he seem to be ok. Is this normal? Is there anything I should do to help? It does mean that I have to sit up with him from about 1am onwards, though I do snooze as well.

BTW, was it Pomme who had the nasty experience with scratching toddler? That's quite scary - and poor A! Did he just run off after he'd scratched her or did you have to grab A to protect her? It seems such bizarre behaviour to do that to a baby!

Anyway, hope you're all enjoying the long weekend...

Dream your DD sounds so sweet! Bless her, singing to herself. Now, boys, go to sleep!

Well, singing is an over statement, baby-warbling is more like it!! (I know she is not a baby at nearly 20 months but she still isn't talking to actually sing!) . Come on.children, sleep!!

& jaggy, Seb is so damn greedy, he drank 6oz of ebm before, not the 2-3 you said he needs. What a whopper... He's going to be built like the back of a bus at this rate :-)

pet, mine do that but with vomiting ++ and screaming too. I think its wind, plus ?? some lactose intolerance (if the colief really is helping). Do you infacol? Didn't really help me but lots swear by it. Or how about colief ? Or gripe water? There is a licensing prob with gripe water atm so its hard to get hold of but dh tracked some down so have that ready to try in my armoury too!

Hmm, I have infacol and gripe water at the ready, but haven't used them as he basically seems fine during the day. Maybe he has a worse latch at night?

Thought he was fast asleep and I could finally lie down, but no - feeding again.

Thanks for the Infacol advice Biscuits! Stupidly I've had that in the nursery since before DD arrived, but I vaguely thought it was something to do with heartburn and didn't realise it was for wind! D'oh! Will definitely be trying that from the very next feed.

Pet I'm trying a version of expressing I like to call "extreme leakage". I try to do it before a daytime feed but usually it just ends up being straight after I've finally got a little sleep - I wake up feeling like I might explode otherwise! I was originally doing MINIMAL expressing (2mins each side) once a day, just to ease the pain, but my imw was worried even that little would encourage continued oversupply of milk and prolong the engorgement. She suggested just having a hot shower and generally massaging, which sets my leakage off hugely without stimulating more prolactin. I do feel a little weird though, as it turns my nipples into mini fountains! It helps though!

Doesn't do much for the latch unfortunately, because it just doesn't decrease the milk level enough. Even directly after a full feed my breasts are still so overfull that even I can't shape them, let alone poor DD. Wretched boobs...!

Good luck to Dream and Pet trying to settle uncomfortable LOs. It's so sad when they're obviously uncomfortable and you can't make it better. I spend hours sitting up rubbing DD's back every night, but I feel so useless! Fingers crossed for Infacol!

I hope the Dreamy twins have now settled, and hurrah for a supportive DH! I hope Scarlet's DH starts to understand the emotional side of all this stress soon. Hormones on top of pain is overwhelming, I hope our DHs can all see that!

No Brooking for all in No-Brooks-Ville!

Scream just been doing a quick google on engorgement and it seems that they recommend maybe something warm (warm compress or warm shower) before a few and either a cool compress or chilled savoy cabbage leaves in your bra after. Did you say you were already doing a warm shower before? And to feed 8-12 times in every 24 hours. And another suggestion was to gently massage while A is feeding.

I'm sure you've already googled it and read all this, or your IMW has suggested it all so sorry if I'm trying to reach you to suck eggs. Incidentally sucking eggs while bf is not one of the things recommended to relieve engorgement... .

Forgotten everything else.....

Ah yes, pet and Dream and settling archy grunty babies . Ds2 does this a wee bit. I have used Infacol but I'm not sure whether it actually makes any difference. But I don't want to try without just in case......

Oh in the instructions for Infacol it says it can take a day or two to have the most effect so maybe stick with it to see if it works - it might not make a huge diff after just one feed.

Dream - more hugs for the whole colief Gaviscon thing