The brookers post graduate thread

[hawthers]

We've got so good at brooking no argument for no pregnancy complications and sneeze births, we're going for our Phds in big fat babies

She's fed better overnight oddly... Just hope I don't need to express as I hate it!

Yy to site soreness. Neither dd has had fever but both have now had red swollen thighs/lumps. Loving that your ds would protest properly! I'd forgotten how violent it all is.

A very good friend is in labour right now with her second. Getting updates and brooking for her!

Sorry to hear about sore boob biscuits. Hope it's nothing and just disappears!

biscuits hope sore boob rights itself. And pomme hope a feeds

Bugger accidentally hit post.

Think it takes a little while for supply to be affected. I'd she had a growth spurt it takes a couple of days of consistent effort to up your supply so I guess it would be similar for it to reduce.

Yyyyyyy to DH's being idiots about being tired. i've just had DH say that his body clock it out if whack as he is used to getting up at 2 and f slept to 3.30 today... Hmm funny don't seem to remember him being up or even conscious for night feeds...

I'm sooooo tiiiired

Gave a bottle of hard-won (as they fed all blooming day, never a good time to pump) ebm to test the cluster feeding in desperation at 1am last night. Seb downed the lot. Don't know whether to laugh or cry...

DD still in her cot as still feeding babies. 8:20am. I have already had a double fingers Twirl bar to cheer myself up. Crap mother alert.

Plus the Twirl will not help my paunch. In the playground on Sunday I was asked if number 4 was on the way.... Great.

too, give us an update on baby signing!? I always got there last minute and both of us always a mess!!

DD has a baby wetsuit, she doesn't get cold so quickly in the pool, I'd never take her without. Also, I put her in a dressing gown with hood up while I get dressed first afterwards and she's always toasty warm. I watch all these mums trying to dry and dress their screaming babies who are getting cold and think the dressing gown thing works so much better!

DH will be happy because we had a lot less pooping last night. i did make sure he got the one ds2 did first thing though. then I'm daft as i got up anyway for DS1 waking. i feel he's a bit neglected and he was shouting for me.

he went through for breakfast fine with me whereas he's been a monkey for DH every day wanting to play with toys or eat breakfast in his tent and things. he did ask if he could have some milk from mummy too, but accepted it when i offered milk from the fridge in a cup He's got a bit of a cough and cold so maybe a bit grumpy anyway.

hope your boob is ok biscuits.mine are still at the hot and huge stage but hopefully will settle down soon.

i remember the joy of trying to get to baby group for 10am and being nearly ready...then i sat DS1 on my knee to put some socks on him and he puked all over us both so we had to start again!

hope A settles down to feeding ok again pomme.

No time to post much but just had to say Dream IGNORE the person in the park! You had twins less than 3 (4?) weeks ago - I'd be surprised if you didn't still look a bit pregnant!!! Please please don't think you look fat! That just shows that they're not that bright if they see such tiny wee babies and don't realise that you gave birth pretty recently. Or they don't have kids. I never really realised until after I had DS that you still look like you're in the early months for a few weeks after.

You're feeding two babies - you need to make sure you're eating enough - please promise me you're not taking notice of what that person said?

Rant over - off to get dressed. HV coming today

Second biscuits - what a wally you met in the park. You deserved a medal for making it to the park - I haven't yet!

Also a twirl is a great breakfast even not post twin partum

Be kind to yourself dream

pomme I go to the playground a lot, mostly as i can't get a break from feeding otherwise. It usually starts with me desperately loading two babies screaming like they're being boiled in oil into the buggy, walking as fast as someone less than 3 weeks post CS can pushing a big buggy, and then being twitchy about them waking up while we're there.

I'm hungry all the time biscuits but am nearly constantly snacking on chocolate and/or baked goods or other unhealthy food- would do no harm to eat a bit better...

Argh, someone stop these babies feeding before my nipples drop off :-(

Also I'm having a feeding wobble. If they won't stop feeding, does this mean they're not getting enough milk?! Seb fed, fed, fed all night til 1am and still necked 2 and a bit oz of ebm

Oh, and I've already added a creme egg to the chocolate list for today...

dream - if when a singleton feeds lots they're building supply then twins must surely need to feed double as lots to build supply???

I'm far from an expert though!

If they're gaining weight and pooing then they're getting enough IMO!

O can't keep up with the feeding though, its actually non stop. I can't do anything and god my nipples are sore :-(

dream - sounds tough. I certainly can't imagine it myself. I do think that sometimes circumstances in modern life rob you of the time to set up bf. I experienced that more with dd1 than Abbie bizarrely. When I moved to ff I felt some relief, a lot of guilt and she still snacked all day! There was more routine at night but the same number of feeds (just quicker). Ff doesn't solve things in the way people like to say it does.

It might be more of a twin thing than a bf thing?

The sore nipples with no break sounds bad though. I guess expressing would help but I also guess time to express is hard to find!

Sorry not to be more help, what does your dh think? Don't let him get away with not being part of the process.

Sorry to keep sticking my head in pre-baby! I would really appreciate your help though.

I've just had some really bad news. Basically my hospital have refused to let my independent mw come into the recovery ward tomorrow. There are a thousand reasons why this makes me really angry, most of which are because they let imw's in ALL THE TIME. My imw herself has been in numerous times, and even the consultant who signed off my cs said that it wouldn't be a problem to have her there because they do it all the time. We made the mistake of being upfront and asking for authorisation in advance though, and now they've pulled out an old, never used, policy book to say no she can't come in. I'm not talking about the operating theatre, I'm talking about the two-bed recovery ward I'll be moved to after theatre. Their reason for the policy? Apparently they're worried the other patients in the room (all of 1) might complain if I'm allowed to have my own mw. WTF?!

So basically my imw now won't be around when I'm trying to initiate skin-to-skin and my first breastfeed. I'm so gutted, and I have no idea where to begin. There will be a nhs mw I've never met before darting in and out of the ward of course, and if she has time I imagine she'll come over and totally impersonally expect me to take my top off in front of her and let her manhandle my boobs (this will NOT be happening, I would rather wait to see my own mw when I transfer to the postnatal ward).

So after all that whinging (sorry to be so negative!) my question is: HELP! What should I do when I first get to the recovery ward? I have this idea that I'll put the baby, wearing just a nappy, inside my top and against my chest just below my boob. I guess I hold her across my body, with her mouth close enough to my nipple that she can kind of find it herself? I have no idea about proper latching on, I'm just kind of hoping that there's only so much damage a baby can do in one feed! My mw will be along a few hours later and hopefully I can learn about latching on then? Any tips or pointers you can give me though would be gratefully received!

Sorry for the rant. I'm just super nervous about tomorrow and this has come as a real blow. I think I'm all hyped up and this is like having my security blanket taken away! (I know, I'm a complete wuss!) It was so important to me to have a HCP I knew well and trusted with me on the day of the birth, that's the whole reason we spent all this money, and at the last minute I'm back to random strangers in a hospital that's done nothing but fight me on everything I've wanted from day 1!

Wow, what a stupidly long rant. I'm sorry ladies, I should keep my panicking offline! Please ignore me, strong people like Dream are facing real challenges and I'm complaining over nothing. I'm very sorry!

Scream no MWs can manhandle you and they will have a general hands off policy. Yes pop baby up your top and let them do what they want. Have a look at biological nurturing website for some tips :) You will be fine and I would just ignore them and take ur MW anyway! I doubt it will be obvious to others she is a MW as she wont be in scrubs.etc Good luck! Tomorrow is your special day and no one can mess it up!

Dream you are doing so well, and it will get easier! The babies will be building your supply and if you can feed twins AND express I would say you have plenty of milk :)

Oh Scream - how frustrating for you! What a stupid policy! If the person you're recovering with minds so much they should have paid for their own flipping mw! That's outrageous!

I would say don't give up hope - you might find that the people on the floor on the day will let her in (they are maybe the people who've let her in before?) but obviously given this latest turn of events you'll have to have a backup plan and be prepared in case she's not there.

I presume your DH can be there?

I'm obviously no expert but I would say that yes, what you've suggested sounds reasonable. Dd in just a nappy, inside your top and just let her snuggle on your chest. If she tries to feed, great, if she doesn't it's still good bonding time and all that jazz.

You're most likely right that the 'normal' MWs like to manhandle baby and boob (in my experience) and although I suppose it's good in terms of getting them on it really doesn't help you with anything you could replicate yourself iyswim.

So in terms of the latch itself, ideally you want dd to have her mouth as open as poss but I would guess that v few babies do that from the get go? My two certainly never did. I would guess that she can't do much 'damage' in a couple of hours - just try and chill out and see what she does. If she gets a hold of your nipple and it hurts (sometimes if they're sucking just on the very end it can hurt) then you can ease her off by just slipping your little finger in at the side of her mouth to break the seal (otherwise if they are latched on with proper suction it's nigh on impossible to get your boob back!)

Oh, I guess either you or DH could ask your IMW what sorts of things she would have suggested if she was allowed in? Might be worth DH getting some tips off her

Obviously I am not qualified in any of this so I stand to be corrected on any of the above. Oh, and if it's a couple of hours that you're in there, I would say don't be freaked out if she's not interested in latching on? (I assume ). There's still plenty of time to get it sorted and the skin to skin is beneficial whether or not there's any feeding.

Oh, and have an enormous squidgy hug - I'm so at your hospital for this - Grrrrrrrer

Purple I was manhandled (but with permission) by MWs with both DSs . That seemed to be the way they helped. They'd ask if I minded but then manhandle away!

Nice to see you though Purple - we've missed you!

Thank you so much for the advice!

I've heard about manhandling from friends who've given birth in the last couple of years (different hospitals though). They were all pretty unimpressed with the general feeling of being a cow, and the fact that several random strangers (mws on different shifts, lactation consultants and various passers-by*) all "had a go" at various points.

*the last one may be a slight exaggeration

I'm hoping to just enjoy skin-to-skin and newborn snuggles, and forget all about this stupid situation. I'll be stuck on the recovery ward for 4-6 hours, so it'll be a long time before my imw can come in and help us, but hopefully we'll muddle through the first feed. (Thanks for the tip on how to break a painful latch!) My LO will be a born No Brooker so hopefully we can make it work!

You ladies are lovely, I feel better already!

Oh shitty shit shit scream that is rubbish. Second what purple said just see if she can come in anyway. There might not even be anyone in the other bed!

As for the random mw, am brooking that you get a lovely personable one. They should ask for permission before manhandling and obviously you'll be updating us in real time so we can talk you through it... :o

Try and get their mouth as wide open as poss and shove as much of the brown bit in as possible. You'll see your imw within a couple of hours and she can get you sorted. Please don't worry about the first attempt - you'll have lots of lovely cuddles and as the placenta has been providing nutrients, your lo won't be hungry straight away (i think).

Good luck!

P.s. any idea how long it takes for the spd to improve?

Oh Dream - I forgot to say earlier. You're certainly not alone in eating chocolate for breakfast! I seem to frequently just be snacking on something like that just because it's quick and easy and gives me a sugar rush. I know I need to stop it / cut it down, but actually doing it, well that's another matter.....

I had cake for breakfast this morning . There is no chocolate in the house and I am suffering from withdrawal symptoms. DH won't be back until at least 6.30 with some. I joined Weightwatchers online but actually starting to diet was a step too far. Maybe next week. The thing is, I hate being so fat and it depresses me, but actually fixing it is a bit beyond me right now. I need to start meal planning again even if I don't diet - I'm existing on toast and jam during the day and takeaways are featuring heavily in our evening meals. I need to do an actual meal plan for the week and then buy the stuff for it to have a ghoster of a chance of eating properly.

Took quite a while for my SPD to improve after having DD1, Hawthers - pushing on my back with legs apart didn't help. However, this time it went almost immediately. I think having the CS made the difference, so hopefully Scream's will go quickly.

The baby massage class was...interesting. There was a man with a 4 month old baby, a woman with a 1 year old (and her mother in tow as well) and me. The man was bringing his daughter because his wife was ill and he happened to be on holiday, so he won't be there next time. The woman with the 1 year old was...um...how do I put this without sounding like a complete snob? I can't, can I? She was a minker She was not the cleanest or most fragrant and she was a bit weird. One of the girls running the class had asked me if Maia was my first baby and I had said sort of, and that my first had been stillborn. She asked me a little bit about it, and I was replying, and then this woman suddenly said loudly "I died on the operating table during my emergency Caesarean". Then she segued straight into "my son has hyper-something-or-other wrong with him" (no one had mentioned children's ailments!), which turned out to be a malformation of his foreskin, which she explained by yanking his nappy off and holding his willy out to show us. She told us about something else he had wrong with him as well. He was a really cute little blond boy with an infectious giggle, who looked healthy as a horse. Anyway, suffice it to say that she didn't exactly seem like a kindred spirit. I'm going to go back next week and see if more people turn up, and if not I might try somewhere else. The massage itself was ok - I kept doing everything really quickly, which you aren't supposed to do, and Maia flaked out after about 20 minutes and I had to stop and feed her. I think really she's a bit young for it. I'm supposed to practice and she'll gradually get used to spending longer periods doing it before she gets thirsty/hungry.

Oh bollocks, I forgot to stoke the fire and it's nearly out!

There are some wierd types out there too. Some may surprise you though- one of the first mums I met I thought was a bit loud mouthed and full of herself and had done cc with her little 12 week old and i never thought we(d get on. 17 months on she's a friend, helped play with DD at toddler groups when i was heavily pg, even did a horrible nappy for me when I was 36 weeks and knackered, has dropped food round since boys here- proper home cooked meals x3, helped today when i mobilized my brood to playgroup and came and helped with the screamers on Monday evening when dh was working til 10pm. So i was way, way too quick to judge her . Hope the mum who'll be there next time is nice but wierd one sounds like she should be avoided at all costs

I'm still struggling with the feeding, having to express now, 6 oz a day to top Seb up in the evening and midnight-1am ish as he feeds for hours but won't settle without necking another 3oz ebm... Trying not to panic that he needs this much at 3 weeks today and how I'll keep up and get through one feed at a time, let alone one day! Ben feeding a lot but not needing top ups. Might go to bf group with boys tomorrow, there is a lactation consultant there.

Y y to constant unhealthy but easy to grab and scoff snacks ay all times of day and night...

scream, sorry missed your posts about initial bf but what a shame. Was brooking for you today, so glad she's safely here, will look fwd to your updates.

Rubbish hawthers sure it should be improving though my friend who had it very badly said it took til her dc2 was 1 til she could swim breaststroke etc and be fully back to normal... She was on crutches from 22 weeks though and had a vb.

Forgotten rest, but hi biscuits, glad we're on the same chocolate wavelength.