Nov 2010, our thread's babies are way more awesome than yours' ;)

[hmmSleep]

OK, so I sneakily added the word 'thread's', but went with SGJ's suggestion

hmm I've intended to try wake to sleep on a number of occasions, and every single time William wakes up 5mins before I'm due to go in and wake him It's like he knows exactly what I'm intending to do

lainey hope things improve between you and DP soon. Good luck with the job hunting.

I've got no intention of having another DC for a couple of years at least. I want to feel like my body's my own for a while, and get at least 7 consecutive full nights of sleep before doing it all again. So judging by Will's current sleep habits he'll be at uni and I'll be old and barren before that happens

4mad William gets a bath every night, because he is just a mucky mucky little boy It also gives me something to do in that early evening, still an hour till bedtime, but bored of providing entertainment part of the day. I imagine with 5dcs there's always something to be doing though

I've rejigged Will's bedtime routine a bit, as he's so tired after nursery he was falling asleep halfway through his bottle and then waking for food later. Fed him a bit earlier last night, and did it in the lounge with the lights on. He then proceeded to crawl around his cot giggling manically to himself for half an hour before going to sleep, but we had the best night we've had in a while. Hopefully we'll get a good few nights under our belts now, although he was very snotty this morning so I reckon we're heading for another cold [grrr]

My doctor asked me when I was planning my next at my 6 week post-natal check . The grand plan is to compete in the Masters World Cup for cross-country ski-ing before thinking about a second. This does involve getting super-fit by March which may be a little difficult. Let's just hope it doesn't take four years again when we finally do get round to it.

Is anyone else in the "only Mummy will do" phase? It's very cute but makes it a little difficult to get things done.

Yes Cardi! Lottie is a bit of a clingy nightmare at the moment, she actively pushes dh away if I'm in the room and makes a leap at me. She's also not happy just to be sat near me, she has to be actually on me. Impressed with your ski plans!!!

Bunny, that's just typical isn't it, cheeky William. I did it again last night and Lottie slept until 7am again, so it does seem to work. I'm going to try again tonight and then see how she goes without the waking.

clingy behaviour here as well, mainly when tired its normal for this age tho i think!

meryrn had beef stew and dumplings the other day, we had it and i then mashed the leftovers and have enough to freeze for a few meals, and today i made her cod, broccoli and sweet pot mash.

tomorrow i am making minted pea and leak soup! obviously something is wrong with me, should i go to the drs do you think?!

glad the wake to sleep is working hmm, i may try it with merryn if her early mornings get anyworse, but she was nearer to 7 than 6 today so thats ok :)

Hi everyone! Well everything's been a bit mental here for a few days - been away at my aunt & uncle's posh guest house, answering phones & emails whilst they've been on holiday. Was supposed to be a lovely break staying in one of their rooms but Jessica has become a complete nightmare at night and has been screaming, refusing to go back to sleep, generally keeping us up all night & stressing us out that the guests would hear her... When we left I'd has 2 nights with only 3 hours sleep, so was already run down, then got I'll so was useless & DH had to look after her in the night, basically both knackered as hell now and despite having popped up 2 teeth (hence the bad sleep), she still shows no signs of improving at night!!! What happened to the lovely baby who slept for 12 hours every night????

Also feel a bit like I'm going crazy as am getting stressed and overreacting to everything, have v short fuse at the moment due to the fact that I'm surely due a mammoth period, having given up BF 3 weeks ago!!!! And still nothing!! It's horrible, haven't felt this hormonal and mental since I was about 6 weeks pregnant! So no, definitely not at the stage to be considering another DC yet!

Please someone tell me everything will all be alright in the end...... Aaaaaand relax....

cardi no clinginess here - our cleaner came round the other day to collect some keys and Will actually leapt out of my arms and onto her. It's not like he knows her well either - it was the first time he'd ever seen her

hmm glad the wake to sleep is working. We've had a few early mornings the past couple of weeks, but today he woke at 6:59, so I suppose that's acceptable

sgj hope you get sleep back on track soon. In my extensive experience of sleep problems, once something upsets Will's sleep, it can take a couple of weeks to get him back on track. Hopefully you won't have to wait that long though

Is there such a thing as the 8-9mth growth spurt? William has suddenly started demanding vast quantites of milk in the night - although I've got him back to one wake up, he's draining a 270ml bottle of milk, whereas 2 weeks ago he was either sleeping through, or taking 60mls max. I'm not sure if it's truly because he needs more milk, or if he's just not drinking much during the day. He seems to be upping his soilds too though, he's not normally a breakfast person, but he ate a whole adult portion of porridge and half a dead cockroach he found behind the sofa

I arrived at nursery yesterday to discover I have indeed raised the class bully Opened the door to his room to hear the staff saying "William leave Bettina alone, no William put her down, she's not a foodstuff, give her glasses back" etc. etc. Looked in his direction to see him ripping some poor child's glasses off and trying to eat them and then trying to eat her. Apparently his new favourite game is wrestling one of the other boys

DS is getting clingy but we have lodgers and odd job men and cleaners who come round and 2 grandparents with us for a week so i don't think he is as clingy as he would be without all of the above!

Re more DC's, yes please. We are letting nature take its course, although as DS having 3-4 milk feeds per 24 hours, periods haven't resumed so no idea when my body will start to work again! But now in a slight argument in my head, as if we hold fire until December, the next DC would be one of the oldest in their school year and i do think it is an advantage to be born in the Sept-Dec time frame....whereas if fell pregnant between now and Nov, new DC would be born April - August. (we are planning to move to an area where i grew up which has grammar schools so need DC's to be uber intelligent to pass the 11+ like i did - DP is intelligent so DS off to a good start and giving him lots of salmon too ;)

Anyone got any thoughts on ideal age gap? (i will be 35 this year and want 4 so time not really on my side!!)

re nightimes, DS used to sleep 10-11 hours solid....then started waking for a feed between 2-4am, and to throw us into more confusion and exhaustion last night went down at 7.30, woke 12.48 went to sleep finally at 2 (water given, no milk) woke again at 6, had milk feed, down at 6.30 woke at 9, had brekkie of sorts. Missed morning feed and nap as went to be weighed (has lost weight in last month) so gave him dinner at 11.30, milk feed and sleep by 1pm, and so now waiting to see how long he will sleep. Tea will be about 4.30 and supper 6.15 with final milk feed 7pm.

Any advice on the above, what do you do? what should i do different? really want my sleeping baby back and for him to eat more and put on weight.

Well it looks like it'll be a race between babybean and loopy to have the next baby on this thread

looopy not sure what you should be doing really. I've really increased the amount of solids Will's been having, as he's increased his nighttime milk intake again. I give him 3 decent sized meals and 2 snacks, and I keep feeding until he refuses any more, so if he clears his plate I'll offer something else. I'm pretty sure that as he's getting more and more mobile he's needing more calories to sustain his growth, but the amount he can eat in one sitting is limited by him still only having a little stomach. From my observations of toddlers belonging to friends, they are constantly eating something, so I'm adopting a similar approach, and during the day it's never more than about 90mins between food/snack/milk feeds.

Our routine goes something along the lines of:
7am milk (if he wakes any time after 5:30am I feed him and resettle until 7am, but I don't offer a top up feed when he wakes for the day)
7:30am brekkie - either 1 weetabix and some fruit or a bowl of porridge
9am snack - usually a yoghurt
10am nap
11:30am milk
12:30pm lunch - main course, dessert and finger food
2pm snack - usually some fruit and a few spoons of cottage cheese
2:30pm nap
5pm - dinner - main course, dessert, finger food
6:30pm - milk
7pm - bed

The timings are all fairly approximate, and if he doesn't drink much at his 11:30am milk feed I'll offer another bottle after his afternoon nap to make sure he's getting as much as possible during the day. I've really had to start being strict about not missing meals or snacks with him - until a couple of weeks ago he could happily miss a snack if we were out or he was napping at an odd time, but now he really seems to need the solids, rather than them just being something fun for us to do.

i guess we must try to get DS to eat more meals per day then, as he isn't eating big portions no matter what i try. On a VERY good day,after his first milk feed of the day which was happening around 4am on average, he might manage 1/2 a weetabix whenever he woke up followed by maybe 25g of fruit puree. He then has another milk feed before his morning nap, which was usually 2 hours after he first woke, and then when he woke from his morning nap he would have his dinner, which again wouldn't be a massive amount - always meat or fish with veggies or veggies in a cheese sauce and maybe another 35g fruit puree. He'd then have another milk feed before his afternoon nap and then tea at 4.30 - same stuff as dinner, and then a petit filous and a biscuit crushed in some milk for his supper at 6.15 and then final milk feed of the day from 7pm.

This is all in the past tense as the HV yesterday said that we should not feed him at all at night and also said we shouldn't even give him water in the night and that he needs to settle himself without having food or water and that we shouldn't even pick him up or change his nappy in the night...i am really not sure about this but she seems convinced that this will work and that we must do it so that he learns to sleep through else we will end up with a child who is unable to soothe themselves back to sleep. (she also said that if reduce his milk intake he will increase his solid intake and if we feed him meat/fish/dairy then this will fill him up and he won't wake in the night - i pointed out i have already significantly reduced his milk intake over the last 2 months, he has meat or fish or cheese sauce for every dinner and tea, he has potato or rice or pasta for each dinner and tea, he has milk with breakfast, petit filous and milk for supper and he has not increased what he is eating, so the only thing that has been achieved by reducing his milk intake is that he is not sleeping and he has lost weight over the last month, and since mid May he has only put on 7 oz which isn't a lot! DS isn't crawling so not burnt it off through being mobile)

Well we tried her suggestions last night, DP tried to soothe DS when he woke at 4am with shhh and pats and DS just became hysterical and started choking on saliva, DP then picked him up and tried to shh and cuddle him. DP then ended up giving DS a lot of water and also changed his nappy. DS still wanted me. I then cradled him and gave him a little water and rocked him in my arms and about an hour after he woke, he finally gave in and went to sleep. He then slept until 6.45, i gave him a milk feed from both sides, he didn't want a second sleep so we played until 8.30 when i gave him his breakfast, it took an hour and he probably had just over 1/4 a weetabix and 25g fruit puree. He then had a short milk feed from one side at 10.40ish and went down for a nap and that's where we are at.

I hate seeing him upset but don't know what to do - follow the HV advice in the hope he starts to sleep and then maybe he might eat more in the day, or continue to feed him circa 4am and have a contented baby. I hate hearing him cry and i hate denying him milk or water and i really am not convinced he will sleep unless we feed him to sleep - from a newborn he was a nightmare, he would not transfer, he would only sleep on me, and we had to resort to using a hot water bottle and sleeping bags before we could manage to transfer him, and he has only been managing naps in his cot for the couple of months at most. He would never sleep in his pram or buggy, and if he fell asleep in the car, more often than not he would wake up as soon as the car stopped - a big problem when stopping at traffic lights! We now can get him to have naps, but only by feeding to sleep and now the HV is saying we need to stop doing that. Would appreciate any advice/tips/opinions on what the HV is saying and what you would do or for those with other children, what did you do? Really don't know what to do for the best, every meal time is turning into a battle and lots of tears.

Loooopy, I know a lot of people hate the idea and will think I am evil but I did controlled crying with all 3 of my dcs. Lottie in particular was a real nightmare to begin with, very similar to your situation, I slept sat up with her on me for weeks! I do understand why people can't do it, it is awful listening to them cry and I can see why people give in and pick them up for a cuddle, but it also does work. All three of mine, including Lottie since doing the wake to sleep recently sleep from 7.30pm to 6.30am. I stopped offering milk at night once she was well established on solids and always make sure she is awake when I put her into her cot. If she does wake in the night and it is warm I offer water. Like bunny I feed feed feed her during the day;

7am breastfeed
9am breakfast
10:30 snack
12:00 lunch
1pm breastfeed
3pm snack
5pm dinner
7pm breastfeed

Having said that Lottie is still hopeless at napping, a couple of very short naps a day usually in pushchair or car and like your ds she doesn't transfer. She also has cheeky naps whilst feeding but wakes as soon as I unlatch her.

Hope you find a solution you're happy with and don't think I'm too mean!

well my elder three boys were all still bfeeding loads at that age and not eating much solids and i think bfed babies generally feed more in the night, i thihk with ds1 i managed to stop night feeds by 9mths but the others were much older.

it depends if you want to get hardcore or not?

re weight gain, you milk will have more calories in it than food, esp given the quantities they eat. merryn has four ice cubes of savoury and then one of yog mixed with fruit for afters (the boys would have just had the fruit but i give merryn yog as she doesnt have much milk)

i think one night feed would be perfectly reasonable at least? have you tried a dream feed at say 11ish to see if he would then go through till say 6am?

also weight gain does slow down considerably at this age (unless you are merryn who is now 20lb 1oz!) and hasnt he been ill this last month? that will have affected weight gain and food intake etc and night feeds?

oh and i got pregnant twice whilst bfeeding without my periods returning.....

re naps, merryn was a good napper in that i could put her down in pram awake and she would have 2hrs in morning and one in the afternoon, not happening now.

she is staying awake from when she gets up till almost lunch, having a short nap then lunch and the hopefully a bigger nap in the afternoon, or else some short catnaps on school run, she also wakes when pushchair or car stops moving nad you cant transfer her. i have found i can take her upstairs and put her to sleep in our bed with varying success...

Loooopy exactly the same here, am 35, starting to panic think I should be getting on with ttc baby no. 2 but planning to aim for the Sept to Dec slot for the same reasons as you. Also have minor issue of still bf every five minutes so not sure how soon its going to be possible. Don't really want to compromise bf in order to conceive. Wish I'd known this beforehand, might have started earlier!

Food going well here, pretty much same as others have said, 3 meals and 2 snacks. Still a very bad sleeper despite filling up on plenty of solids. Last night woke at 11pm, 1am, 2am, 3am then 6am. And that's quite a good night. Tried water, he was having none of it. It's either bf for a couple of mins and back to sleep (he's not even hungry, just comfort I think) or other methods for about an hour. So to maximise sleep in the short term I'm doing bf to sleep every time. Not a long term solution I know. Am making copious notes on what everyone is suggesting re sleeping through.

Hi everyone We've been off visiting DH's Grandmother and although the first night there was a nightmare of sgj proportions the other nights were not so bad.

Until about 3 weeks ago N was really not eating very much (sounds similar to yours loooopy) so I just kept up the milk feeds - 5 per day and typically 2 at night (one at our bedtime and once at 3am).

He suddenly started gobbling down everything we can give him and we've now dropped a day feed and could probably drop another one. Our current routine is:
7.45am wake and bf
9.30am milk (180ml at CM)
10am nap
12.30pm lunch (decent portion of meat and veg and dessert)
2pm nap
4.30pm milk (180ml at CM)
6pm dinner (decent portion of meat and veg and dessert)
7pm bf to sleep
11pm ish bf (I think we wake him when we go to bed - and it's not systematic)
3am ish bf (not every night though)

I think the CM also gives him a snack in the afternoon so I'm wondering if we can drop the afternoon feed as well. He did put on 500g in three weeks though His biggest weight gain in so short a time!

Looopy I would be tempted to keep up the milk feeds until he starts eating a bit better. I'm pretty sure they get most of their calories from milk still at this age and if weight is a concern then I would be happier knowing that he was getting a good quantity of milk each day.

WRT the HV's advice for the night I must say that we can't let N cry it out. We are trying to be less quick to go and feed him at night though because half the time he falls back to sleep after a short winge. I did find bunnygirl80 the "No Cry Sleep Solution" very helpful in gaining some strategies for helping N to sleep better.

Well, it sounds like we might be the only ones on this thread sticking at one. I do get the occasional thoughts about a little squidgy newborn and then I remember what a nightmare it is was and realise that while I'm a passable mother to one I would be a truly terrible mother to two. DH is also happy to stick at one so I think we're done!

looopy TBH I'm not sure your HV's given the best advice if all she's managed to achieve so far is slowing your DS's weight gain. She seems to be obsessed with reducing the milk intake for some reason , even though milk is supposed to be their main food source until they're 1.

Like fen said, I'd try and keep his milk intake up until he's showing much more interest in solids. Maybe offer more BFs in the day so he's getting as much milk as possible in the day, and hope that that reduces the night waking. Something I read suggested cluster feeding in the evening to try and get his tummy as full as possible before bed, so offer a BF every hour or two from 5pm onwards.

And suggesting you have to leave him to cry if you ever want him to learn to self settle is utterly ridiculous. Plenty of babies are rocked, fed, etc to sleep yet they all learn to put themselves to sleep at some point.

If I was in your situation I'd probably try getting him to eat as much as possible and offer milk regularly during the day, and see if that helps at night. If there's no improvement after a week or so then it depends how hardcore you want to get. The faster the solution, the more crying is generally involved, so it just depends whether you want results in 3 days, or a few weeks.

The standard government approved advice we're given in Oz is that it's normal to need one night feed up until 9mths, and that some babies may well continue to wake in the night for milk up until 12mths, especially if they're not all that interested in solids. Our HVs don't consider one feed in the night an issue before 12mths, unless you specifically tell them you want to night wean

William has now mastered the art of pulling up to standing, and is using every available surface to practice. Every time I turn my back on him there's a loud crash approx 10 sec later as he attempts unsupported standing and hits the deck

oh i remember the falling like a tree stage well with my boys! luckily merryn isnt anywhere near that yet!

she had curry today! last nights butternut squash and red pepper curry, made with curry paste and coconut milk, i added an ice cube of sweet potato and a spoon of natural yog but it was still quite strong and she loved it! not sure i will enoy the resulting poo tomorrow tho...

DS had curry for the first time this weekend and now loves it too and the poos have been fine. Used the Annabel Karmel one, chicken/apricot/butternut squash/coconut milk one - sounds similar to what you made 4madboys

i don't eat curry so it's my mission to get him eating a very varied diet! Anyone got any other spicy recipes they've had success with?

re our issues, well last night DS was asleep by 7.30pm, and then DP for the first time ever managed to settle DS when he woke, although it did mean being awake from 3-4.30 give or take and DS had about 2 oz water, but then DS slept till 7.15am, had half a weetabix and 50g fruit puree, then went till 9 before he had a good milk feed, slept well this morning, ate well at dinner, then a good milk feed and an afternoon sleep, then ate very well at tea and supper, positively demanding food! (so much so that there was no break between tea and supper as he was so hungry - in total he had 2 savoury courses, 50g fruit puree, another savoury course, a 50g fromage frais, a biscuit crushed in milk, and then a couple of organix puff things!) then milk and bed by 7.30pm.

Has been such a lovely day not having to battle with him at mealtimes, am now thinking maybe they are right that he doesn't need a night feed, and more that it's become a comforting habit for him. He has done 10-11 hour sleeps before now, so hoping just maybe we can get him back to those days soon!

Ooh impressed with curry eating babies. Me and dp always make our own, so might make a v mild one next week and see.
i have given finn some chicken from my fajitas ( fairly spicy) he sucked all the spicy juice off the chicken with gusto, so perhaps need to be less afraid of adding things to his food.
loopy no advice for you re sleep but hope it geta back to normal soon.
We had a few nightmare nights 4.30 and 5 am wakings thanks to drunken people walking past. But last 2 days slept in til gone 8 am bliss!

Sorry, keep forgetting that I have name-changed

Am impressed with these curry eating babies - I only ever make curry out of a jar so haven't managed to give any to Will yet. Perhaps I'll have to find a nice recipie and give it a whirl

looopy glad you're getting back on track with sleeping/eating

William has decided that yes, he really really is the cutest baby ever and needs recognising as such by all members of the general public. Every time we're on the bus to/from nursery he picks someone he likes the look of and then stares them out until they smile at him If they don't smile back, and say hello to him then he just glares at them until they get really uncomfortable and avoid any further eye contact with him

i can send you the recipe if you want Bunny? (it does involve a few teaspoons of a ready made curry paste but everything else you add yourself from real ingredients !)

where is everyone? no posts on fri/sat/sun/today! please tell me you haven't all disappeared abroad on holiday and left me on my todd!

i really want a break, keep nagging DP to book some time off but after promising May, then promising July, he is now saying he can't take time off until September. Even if he took some time off just to be at home i'd be happy, not nagging him for an overseas holiday or anything like that.

Having a bit of a mare. I work self-employed but just for one company, and getting hassle about when i'm going back. I've told them umpteen times that i don't have to go back until mid-October. Meanwhile my clients are wanting a service, but this company (despite getting a cut of the income the clients generate) will not help at all, and i got told today that i had been off for so long, and that i can't expect proper maternity leave, it's not the same as being in an employed role, and that i have a responsibility to look after my clients and that they don't really care that i'm only allowed 10 keeping in touch days as per statutory maternity allowance rules. I can't tell them where to go as they might terminate our agreement and potentially try to keep my clients, and i need to stay officially self-employed so i can get statutory maternity allowance again for future babies, as i don't really want to have to find another job as it's only full time jobs that get advertised in this industry, whereas this place don't seem to care how often i work as long as i always work and never have proper maternity leave. Been pissing me of for months, but even more so now, DS coming up to 9 months and guess it's just been building up to the point i want to verbally explode at them, but can't. IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!

Don't expect anyone to be able to help, but i just needed to vent it at someone lol!!!

(oh and after reading another thread it would appear that the first of us to be expecting DC2 is actually honeymoo Well done you!!!)

looopy that would be great if you could send me the recipe.

William actually got me two recipe books for my birthday.....I think he's trying to tell me something about the standard of my cooking

Sorry that work is getting you down. Hope you manage to find a solution soon.

I think William definitely takes after me - got a call from nursery yesterday morning saying he was very unsettled and had a bit of a temperature so could they give him some panadol and nurofen. When I got there to pick him up I asked how he'd been - they said he was a bit miserable all morning, but he had some chocolate cake with his lunch and then cheered right up

Congrats to honeymoo

ooh congrats honeymoo

where was that mentioned?

loopy no idea re work, but sorry they are being such apita.

re curry we use a bit of curry paste then add coconut milk, onions, butternut squash and red peppers, we also do one with chicken and courgette and other veg,whatever we have to hand basically!

and lol at william cheering up after chocolate cake

(a thread to do with mumnetters who are looking for any excuse not to go back to work lol....can't think why i was reading it :) )