FESH Spa & Creche - The Messiah is late - 'e's a very naughty boy!

[AlpinePony]

2010 - the best year of my life, for half of it I was pregnant and for the other half had my baybee.

Pol sounds like you are doing a great job under difficult circumstances. I think you are at the most difficult stage with the breastfeeding, but that it does not mean anything is actually "wrong" as such. If BB is doing dirty nappies and gaining weight, then she is getting enough to eat no matter whether she likes to have it all in the evening for three hours at a go or spaces it out differently or apparently not at all. That's the baseline. I think you probably do have enough milk and you are just blaming the invisible milk supply (you can't measure it, so you can't be certain it's ok) for other problems - cramps/ tiredness/general fussiness. Nothing would improve your supply better than the kind of sucking and cluster feeding BB is doing. Keep a count and assess weight and dirty nappies. If these are within the norm, dismiss any lingering worries about supply.

I would also try and assess a bit what she is doing when at the breast. The first ten minutes are likely to be when she is most obviously drinking. If this drops away to something much more intermittant and she is not so obviously swallowing, I would latch her off, change her nappy, take off a layer of clothing etc. to try and get her awake enough to continue to feed properly. If she has fed for twenty minutes or so and seems keen to keep going, I would change sides. Of course it is lovely for the baby to lie on you and doze and have the odd snack now and again, but if it means that feeds are lasting two hours, I think that is too much for you, as you won't be able to do anything else at all. I would try to gently encourage her to focus a bit more if you can.

For all who are breastfeeding or planning too, I saw something new at the baby massage class: there was a mom there who had a shell for wearing over her nipples when not feeding. This is not some fancy term by the way: it was literally a seashell - one of those pointy ones that stick to rocks - like you would pick up at the beach. She had bought it though in some nature shop. Anyway, she said it was extremely cooling for sore nipples and prevented any rubbing or friction between feeds. Also obviously easy to clean etc. Looked great!

curls - so glad things are going a bit better. You are very strong! I'm so glad the ADs are helping and that you are able to focus a bit now on your physical wellbeing. That's great. And amazing weight loss too by the way! I bet you are looking fab.

FP Well done on the both kids in bed by 8 coup! I know the Feshes who are managing with two are able to give wise advice - but I can only admire those who are coping with a toddler/young child as well as a baby . You sound as though you have given things a lot of thought and if you feel you can manage with support and at least the sleep you need, I'd say you can. Sounds like your OH is ready to work with you to get there too. So stay strong I'd say! Even a day or two of better sleep improves the outlook enormously!

We are struggling a bit with the massive aversion to the bath that Missy has suddenly developed. She screams from the moment we start to undress her until she is dressed again. It is unbearable. She has now not been washed for 3 days and I don't know what to do. This has been for the last four baths say. Before that she wasn't keen, but she could put up with it. Dunno how to fix it. Will try flannel washing at some stage today I guess, but an earlier attempt was aborted when my laying her down on the changing table in the bathroom resulted in hysterics. She was tired too I think, but still...

pollyannapoo Just want to say I agree with the general consensus here - sounds very much like my early days with Bonnie. Her feeds would often last over an hour, and then 10 mins later she'd be hungry again! I had days and days of just being parked on the sofa surrounded by food, laptop, and TV remote doing nothing but feed. It does get better, but I believe you have to trust babies at her age - they know what they need.

As for Clyde - I managed to get him to have two bottle feeds last night... but he decided he also wanted the usual quota of boob time as well. What is making him think that all the food and formula is some sort of supplement to his old diet, rather than a replacement? Greedy little man! I would be nicely hopeful that my boob supply would soon stop and we'd be entirely on bottles, if it weren't for this night time boob addiction he seems to have. But with him being 7 months now I am confident that him I can start to refuse!

I am feeling better today. I can't tell you how good it is just to be able to talk about it. It's like I have permission to feel this way therefore it can't be that terrible after all.

FP - God woman I am in awe of you. How you have managed all that, with 2 nippers and still have a head on your shoulders IS a miracle. You sound like you have a good man with you who is supporting you. Just try and keep the end goal in sight - you'll be in your new place soon and things WILL settle down so for now just be kind to yourself and every achievement however small is great. That said, if you really are feeling shite most of the day and struggling to cope call a HV. That's what they are there for and it might be good to talk to people if you aren't managing to get out and speak to other mums. I know for me, getting out and about was the key. I didn't feel like it and couldn't physically manage it to begin with, coupled with no sleep but little by little going out and moaning to anyone that will listen :) is helping me get by and realise that we are all going through more or less the same thing. It is obviously ALOT harder for me though !!!

Pollypoo - you have lots of good advice above. All I can add is that you are definitely at the hardest bit now. I was exactly the same... felt like there was no milk in my breasts, feeding all the time and baby fussing and crying alot. She will be trying to stimulate your production and going through a growrth spurt at the same time so it is tough. I did cave and give a bottle exactly the same time one hideous lunchtime (not that the monkey will take one now mind) and I think for sanity that is fine but be warned that this will have the effect of satisying her hunger but not helping your supply. Obviously if this is what you want to continue doing then absolutely fine, but you know what I mean. Anyway the best best thing you can do is get into bed for a few days, enjoy the time and your daughter can hop in with you and read, watch DVDs and just relax. Stressing about anything (even if it is a wedding reception) is not helping. You need to rest, eat well and it will improve very soon. You're nearly past the hardest bit now.

Personally I couldn't get near a routine until way past the 6 week stage when my supply had established and actually all of a sudden went through the roof by 8 weeks. Some people can, if you are feeding like you are clearly your milk hasn't settled so I wouldn't worry too much. You just need to chill as much as you can. The fact you are ezpressing as much as you are is an indicator that your milk is absolutely fine. I think that amount is similar to me at that time. Now I can manage about 150ml in under 10 minutes from one boob so it WILL go up - don't worry. as witty says so long as you keep getting wet and dirty nappies all is well. Is she putting on weight?

honey Yes I like your advice about getting out and moaning to anyone who will listen! I have checked out the GP website in the location we are hoping (fingers crossed) to move to, and discovered that the HV hosts a support group for new mothers. So as soon as we get the nod I'll get myself registered and go along to start moaning to a whole bunch of new people!

Pols clearly I have nothing useful to add, but just wanted to send luff and support to you. I?m sure you are doing much, much better than you think you are.

Witty like a limpet shell? An actual limpet shell, or something similar made of plastic?

Chinese burns to all.

Pol you have to assess what type of gal you are too. I am a routine person, I need it for my sanity. Box is not a routine person and I am sure a routine would drive her insane. I do agree with Box that neither of us is right or wrong, just different. As I mentioned I can ony speak from the wa I do things and FWIW Peppa has been in a pretty good routine from about 3 weeks old (it took longer with mini Oke but I kind of know what I am doing this time round) and for the last 2-3 weeks she has been sleeping from 10.30/11.00pm through to 7am with no night time feeds (ie from 7 weeks old). She has never lost weight since she was born and is clearly getting a decent amount of milk during the day which is sustaining her through the night. I do think I *currently have a good baby but a good routine has worked for me. I never let her sleep through a feed time and I try to ensure she has decent naps during the day.

I say "currently" as I am waiting for the day when it all goes a bit Pete Tong and I know it will and I will be back here addopting the Box* method!

Each to their own and all that and it is good to have varying opinions and advice so you can take from it what could work for you.

no offence taken

medee - yes a limpet and the real shell not a plastic one. Probably cleaned and possibly smoothed before being sold, but otherwise very much what you would pick up on the beach.

Blimey!

pols sorry you are having hassles. Personally I would try and see a bf counsellor if you can to check for tongue tie & such, it can mean they feed inefficiently. Might also be worth posting in the feeding topic for some experts?

I am trying to remember back to when he was 2 weeks old but I actually think what you are describing is pretty normal - they do go through a lot of little growth spurts at that ages.

I'm afraid I also have to disagree with okes and say getting into a schedule at that age is too soo and will definitely damage supply imo However, you do need to check that it is definitely hunger and not something else - ARtie would seemingly want to feed all the time when he had trapped wind as the act of sucking makes them feel better, so do all you can to get the wind out of both ends.

Yes as I have discovered TT is quite common and treatable. I wish we had found out earlier..

And at week three we had bleeding colic thrown in for good measure.

I also think that sometimes no matter how much you want a routine the baby is not ready/able to cope with one. The only routine we have and only recently so is a bedtime one. Day time is still a mish mash tbh. MB naps for 30mins if that and only when held so not ideal in anyway shape or form.

fp support group sounds perfect.

I spent most of my nct get together moaning abouty lack of independence and having to be granted freedom. As noone else bad mouthed discussed their own DH etc I spent last night feeling guilty about telling them the truth how things could be better and then he pissed me off again this morning and my guilt was a distant memory. Am sure it's hard for him too. Looks like I'll have to find an extra set of buddies who also like to moan and share on the same topics as me!!!!!!!

oh that is annoying silv, I am lucky in that we all diss discuss our dhs a lot at NCT.

Polly how are you doing?

We had another 7-1.30-5.30. Not too bad but bastard neighbour woke me at 4-5! Banged on wall. Not happy!

Hello FESHs! Just popping over from the deli for a bit of info...I am due in ten days, and according to my mw, baybeee is barely engaged :( even though some other PESHs this engaged who are not due for weeks

I really don't want to go over edd, and wondered how quickly one can go to full engagement and labour...is it something that happens slowly and gradually over weeks, or can it suddenly drop into engagement and things starts happening.

Any advise from you wise wimminz welcome! Thanks!

In and out love, one day it can be engaged and the next it will have floated free. I went from almost fully engaged at one MW appt to hardly engaged at the next appt, and the next day i went into labour. They are contrary little buggers, in and out of the womb!

In fact i would venture to suggest you don't want to be fully engaged for too long as i found it quite uncomfortable!

Hello all. Sorry for delay and thank you for all the advice, evnen if contradictory! I generally am a routine person like Okes, and had Boo on a 3 hr routine from 4 wks (once I caved in to bottle feeding) and she slept through the night from 5 wks. However, as I want to increase milk production I reckon the best way to do that is keep feeding her every 2 hrs. Reasons for thinking milk production dropping off are 1) I've gone from expressing 5oz in the evening to 2oz max, 2) no longer need breast pads as I don't leak, 3) breasts never feel full, even overnight and by the afternoon they are practically empty sacks and`4) she is still hungry after one boob. Defo not mistaking hunger for tiredness as the cries are very different, plus she does all the classic tongue and rooting movements. She does doze on the boob but i use all the usual techniques to wake her up and make sure she drains the boob.

Yesterday flashed by in a frenzy. The MW came to sign us off and I just burst into tears. Again. FFS! After much deliberation we have decided to feed or express every 2 hrs, offer BB 1 boob and if still hungry, top her up with EBM, or formula if needed. Just until boobs start making more milk. I understand what Boxy or maybe Honey said about formula meaning there wasless demand on boob and therefore would negatively effect milk, but the 2 times she had formula I wasexpressing too so boobs never missed a feed iyswim.

Oh yes... we are not in Kent, huzzah! I woke up yesterday and just cried at the thought of having to pack for myself, Boo and BB, plus food, supplies etc and then try and fit in a 3hr+ journey. Not to mention 2 nights away from home all the while having to make polite conversation with strangers and TG's family.

Once I'd resigned myself to being glued to sofa and staying in pjs then we actually had a good afternoon and evening. BB mostly woke every 2 hrs without prompting so I just made myself comfy and took control of the tv. Went off to bed around 11pm and BB didn't wake until 5.30 this morn! Not good from a milk point of view but great for sanity! She seems much more sated and sleepy today and had to be woken for last 2 feeds. Going to get her in the sling in a mo and head out for some fresh air.

Sorry to be so mememe. It has taken me about an hr to type this while BB fed.

Cho having tried to get both baybees out before induction loomed I would say there is little you can do to influence the little buggers and they come when they are ready! Prolly not what you want to hear though, sorry about that.

oh yeah... and Cunty speaks wisely. They do bob in and out and being fully engaged for weeks means walking like John Wayne and is tres uncomfortable!

chocho tis true - SIL also went into labour without baby N°1 being engaged (and it is quite common with second babies). They drop down during birth. So while engagement is a sign that things are moving forward, it is not necessarily true the other way. I also agree that the baby being deeply engaged is not so comfortable. My pelvis felt really heavy and loose and sore.

polly sounds like you are doing everything right and like BB is getting plenty. I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about how much you can express being a sign of supply. Some people can't express at all - doesn't mean they have no milk. Variation in amount could be due to all kinds of factors - psychological also. As for breasts feeling lighter - that is a normal progression and should happen after the first few weeks. My book on breastfeeding highlights this as something that causes women to worry about supply, when in fact it is perfectly normal and has no impact on supply. The breasts just adapt and the sensation disappears, but production continues the same way.

cho MB was 3/5 engaged, then 2/5, 1/5 then not engaged at all to being -1/5 on the day I was bullied strongly advised to have a cs as despite engagement or lack of it sproggo wanted to stay put! Baybees are on their own timeframe.

polstar good to hear you are at home and not at wedding. Difficult thing to have to tell someone, esp if they don't have ze kiddiwinks themselves as hard for them to understand wot u is going thru.

Had me some me time today. Love love loved it. Cane home to find HI and MB on the sofa still in their pjs watching shite tv. Oh and MB had not taken much of the milk I'd left and HI didn't feed him at ten like I said but at 11.15!!!! Arghhhhhhh. Why? Cos he was sleeping! MB not HI that is!

I've had two nights good sleep. MB slept from 730-6 and last night 730-5 and I hit the hay at 930. Trouble is I can't stay awake later than that. . Can't see tonight being as good.......

Happy Saturday y'all - time for Take Me Out!!!

Here's a think about milk - I went out last night (gasp! I know!) for dinner, and tried to express for LG. Not that he would drink it, but at least I would have done my maternal duty. I spent over half an hour pumping, and got a thimble full out. Barely enough to cover the bottom of the bottle! Yet this morning I am leaking all over the place this morning. If you were trying to guess how much milk I had in there I think it would be impossible. But LG has been filling his nappies, oh yes!

BTW does anyone else's baybee spent every waking hour with their hand in their mouth? LG's current number one obsession is trying to fit his entire fist into his mouth, and possibly his other fist too!

box Clyde wouldn't be able to fit his hand into his mouth for all the teeth in there.

There are currently four jagged little things, and # 5 and 6 are just cutting through now. I have tooth marks on my boobs! Seriously - ow!

GAH!!!!! My 'rents are turning up this s'avo and I am trying to clean and MB intermittently is demanding my attention!!! I'm not getting v much done and I wanted to shower/change and express before they arrive as I am sooo NOT comfortable bf'ing in front of them. Strangers - no problem. My parents - no way Jose.

MB is desperate for a nap but won't so I'm hostage on the sofa again. Balls.

I know my mother will be wAnting to nose look in every room etc and I wanted to be a bit sorted and looks like that ain't happening!!

silver I am in same situation. Friends/colleagues of MrP's coming over and the place is a tip. MrP took off with Bonnie to play for the day 'to give you as much time as possible to get the place ready'.

Oh right, because Clyde will naturally sit quietly in corner for several hours?

So far have managed to feed Clyde milk x2, chicken and sweetcorn x1, put washing on (sleeping bag vomited on, oh joy), start to unpack dishwasher, change Clyde's nappy x3.

I'm surrounded by piles of washing, old newspapers, random toys, dirty baby bottles, and oh.. dirty nappies on the floor near the bin as MrP suddenly thinks it's funny to practice his basket ball skills with a dirty nappy!

This couple are thinking of (maybe even trying to?) have kids. I feel a weird sort of responsibility to show them the lovely side of it so as not to put them off. Like I'm a new convert to a religion who is trying to sttract others or something. (