Reform are getting a shitload of voters

[HeBeaverandSheBeaver]

I have not voted
Reform and live in a safe tory seat But I voted
Lib dem tactical vote

I said ages Ago on here the reform would do really well and was shouted down.

Same as brexit, no one will admit voting for reform but
They still do it in droves it seems.

I'm Willing to bet they
Might win an election in four years at this rate!!

Scary
Times

You may be right - I don’t know what young people all around the country think, but in my experience - my kids’ generation - generation Z - are generally tolerant and inclusive.

Maybe it depends where you live - in large multi-cultural cities where schools are diverse, children grow up with “difference” all around them, and know that everyone belongs regardless of where their parents might have come from.

I dunno, my brother is Gen Z (smart and doing a masters) and voted Reform as he lives in a multicultural city, and is sick of watching his girlfriend getting harrassed/catcalled by certain groups and feeling unsafe walking home alone. Similar to what posters mentioned in the Jess Phillips thread about parts of Birmingham.

That’s absurd and to me men like your brother are racist. They are quiet as mice about the (vast majority of) harassment that is committed by white men but are suddenly feminists when it comes to talking about “Asian grooming gangs”. Reform supporters are full of aggressive misogynists who are also anti-woman .

How does he think Reform is going to solve the problem he alludes to? And is he only worried about harassment of women when the men are brown and the women are white? 9/10 if I’ve been harassed it’s been by a white man who is usually drunk.

And since when have women ever felt safe to walk home themselves? Our women in predominantly white areas not subjected to that fear of waking alone and being hyper vigilant etc? I went to uni in the noughties, in my university there was a free women’s night bus which took women home from free from the student union every hour until 2am, so no women ever had to walk home due to not being able to pay for a taxi. We had rape alarms and stayed vigilant. This isn’t a new thing!

These men love to pretend women are choosing the bear because of a “certain type of man” whereas the truth is that many women of every race are choosing the bear no matter if the alternative is a white, Asian or Black man! The average Reform voter is not going to be kind and gentle to women and supportive of “woke” feminists. If you’re racist just own it but don’t pretend you’re voting Reform for the sake of women.

It is not racist to acknowledge that there are many much more misogynistic cultures around the world that men immigrating to the UK bring with them.

This claim doesn’t negate anything I’ve said above.

Women aren’t safe period and most women will be most at risk from men from their own community whether that be white or Asian or whatever.

As above : The idea that Reform will improve women’s safety is a joke. Men who use women as an excuse to vote Reform of all things are just racist.

Well enjoy voting for “feminist” reform who will make women “safer”. I won’t spend any more of my Saturday listening to people who can say with a straight face they/others voted reform out of consideration to women so my last word on this:

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/02/second-reform-candidate-quits-over-racism-and-misogyny

PS : And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Anecdotally and IME if you look at the profile of the typical Reform voters they include feminism in their hostility against “wokeness” and get all red faced when you talk about how women’s safety issue and how men as a group make the streets unsafe for us. They really don’t care for women’s safety unless the victim is white and the aggressor is brown or black.

I didn’t vote for Reform and wouldn’t. But I also do not read a paper that denied Cologne New Year’s Eve mass planned harassment and assault of women didn’t happen.

If I fled the U.K. then France would be my nearest country - thing is I can’t speak French and know no one, I didn’t fight with the French army either - I would never be able to make a life there and I would continue to be traumatised as I don’t understand anyone and have no one to help me settle. At that point it could also a bit of a war torn country itself.
It would give me a sense of safety to reach a country where I have connections and/or speak the language. I would rely on the law that says I can get to where I feel safe, not where someone else decides I should feel safe.
In fact it maybe it’s so dangerous for me to travel out of the U.K. I would have to send my partner and just pray he’d get somewhere and then be able to send for me.
I think as women we should definitely understand feeling safe.
Look up the pianist of Syria to find a first hand account- he settled in Germany as it happens.
I’m not saying immigration is a simple problem, personally I think it needs global discussion, however saying people should stop in any of Libya, Greece, or France isn’t recognising either the UNCHR, the law or the reality.
I see on this thread we should try to understand Reform voters, people worried about immigration- equally everyone discussing it should understand the legalities of asylum seeking as well before agreeing with Reform’s very over simplistic and unworkable solutions too.

Stupid uneducated comment, because you don’t know every single person who votes Reform, so obviously can’t put them all in the same ‘racist’ box, just like we don’t know every single Labour voter is anti semantic (lots are unfortunately, but not all). Problem is that people throw the racist label around so much, that now it just loses its impact.

White men in the UK are as misogynic as any racial or religious group of men. The common factor in misogyny is men. Religion and ethnicity are easy targets.

It’s a myth that asylum seekers on small boats all speak English. Many ‘lose’ their documentation on the way here so that it can’t be proven from which country they originate, so can’t be returned. They also cannot speak English (or lie?), so that questions about where they come from can’t be discussed either. Their countries are so dangerous apparently, that all these men are happy to leave wives and children there while they seek a better life. If dangerous, the people they are running from, would wipe out their families back home.

I’m not saying they all speak English, but many have at least some English, what I am saying is they may have a connection in the U.K. - for example a cousin, people they know and/or language skills. ,I say this as it is a fact that we get fewer from South American places where the primary language will be Spanish as they go to Spain, similar with French speaking countries who stay in France - it is a definite myth that all refugees arriving in France come to the U.K. - France takes many, many more than we do.
If they can’t speak English then there are interpreters to facilitate communication.
Reference men leaving families - there are many countries where a female has zilch chance of crossing the border legally or illegally, where it is far too unusual to see a female out alone, where it is nigh on impossible to get two people out so try with one - many many reasons. The pianist of Syria explains how they decided he should try solo.
Many illegal migrants do bring their families though - on visit visas which expire - many more than arrive as what most of the world call asylum seekers. I’m not sure if there’s any plan from Reform to address this?
So I’m not saying there is no abuse of migration but I am saying we can’t just assume all are the same with bad intent, that is simply not true either. We need thought out, realistic solutions.
Immigration is not a simple, one size fits all issue, and definitely has no simple solution such as ones suggested by Reform.

what I am saying is they may have a connection in the U.K. - for example a cousin,

This has a cumulative effect over time as more people expand who they know

Is there a point with increasing trafficking where numbers could feel uncomfortable to you?

Let's move into solution space?

What are the options ?

Try to stop it all?
By violence and force - that's never going to end well is it

Or By removing these drivers - the war , climate change and poverty that these people want to escape ? Ensuring that everyone has the same opportunities for their families no matter where they live?

Problem is that most third world countries from which these people are fleeing have all three of these drivers; poverty, climate change and war, together with corrupt governments. It would take literally millions of pounds to even touch the surface of what’s needed, as well as tackling corrupt regimes.

Climate change and its impacts is going to lead to even more immigration, but Reform and their other hard right counterparts tend to be against investment in net zero policies. Far easier to have simple answers and stir up anger against newcomers from poorer countries with darker skin than deal with root causes. Sadly though electorates seem susceptible to simple answers and are often vulnerable to politicians tapping into anti establishment sentiment. Social media also makes it even easier to spread lies and myths.

Whilst all of this looks pretty bleak I think one thing that does help is that where you have at least a reasonably strong democracy, these type of politicians easily get exposed once they're in power as they actually have v little to offer other than division and hate. I suspect this will happen in at least a couple of the seats Reform won and certainly in Clacton where constituents will wonder why their newly elected MP is hardly around in constituency/House of Commons as he's swanning off round the world to suck up to Trump or hang out with other far right populists.

All trafficking is unacceptable - forcing people to do against their will for traffickers own gain is unacceptable- I avoid some nail bars, car washes etc for this reason.
Many trafficking victims are here legally, more illegally perhaps but entering legally initially as in not on small boats. It is easier to offer a great job and plane ticket than a boat and more practical as they’re more likely to survive and they can be corralled easier once arriving in U.K. It is all appalling yes.
current policy (under Tories) is to return victims of trafficking back to their home country in nearly all scenarios. I definitely think we should root out all victims of trafficking but not necessarily return all home immediately.

The small boats however, which I guess you are referring to, are not full with trafficked people, but asylum seekers. Yes, they are
exploited as in charged highly for the boat - this charging system for goods desired will always happen legally and illegally to an extent but illegally then the exploitation gangs should be stopped. Yes, they are often exploited by adverts at home promising a great life in the U.K. - this too should be stopped.
There will however still be refugees in the world, some of whom would wish to come to the U.K. as their legal right - claiming asylum in a country they feel safe. They will find ways whether via criminal gangs or themselves. We should process them better, and more quickly, and have more safe routes - and obviously check they are genuine - we should also work more globally across other countries to manage this issue as it’s going to increase as countries become less viable to live in. I think we should do more on integration for the asylum seekers, legal migrants, and I think we should give facts to the public as to why we take migrants etc - I am comfortable with helping all asylum seekers tbh as it’s awful to be one - practically, we should review numbers and economics, and find a good way to accommodate and integrate- then work more globally to address the problems.
to note only a certain number would want to come here and refugees as a group provide more in net revenue to U.K. ultimately than average legal migrant - as did EU citizens but we don’t have that issue now.

Yes I mean the people taking large profits to fill boats and other and often using horrendous strategies along the way

I am comfortable with helping all asylum seekers tbh

to note only a certain number would want to come here

How many do you think would want to come here? Just roughly what do you envisage

Not at all, he is far from racist and his girlfriend is Chinese. I never felt unsafe walking home alone at uni, even at 3am. She says there are certain areas she walks through and gets leered at by huge groups. I’ve never come across that personally. It’s not racist to acknowledge there are very misogynistic cultures whose views of women as a whole, are very different from the average British view.

Saying “all men are misogynist, all Reform voters are racist” is saying an equal proportion of British men and men from other cultures/religions are misogynist, when we know that’s just not true. In some countries women have nearly no rights and being gay is punishable by death. Most people growing up there will agree with those views. I personally don’t want huge amounts of those beliefs here.

Yeah right 🤣
they expect to have a relatively well paying working class job though, it’s their right! Whereas it is actually not a given, you need to compete nowadays to have a job. Do something. Train harder. Work harder to be promoted (like women have to). Maybe even move cities or even countries. Like many non-white people do.

It’s not racist to acknowledge there are very misogynistic cultures whose views of women as a whole, are very different from the average British view

I think it is incredibly misogynistic to ignore bad male behaviour simply because it is embarrassing to government policy.

Women (particularly vulnerable) suffer the consequences of a lax migration system where men from cultures wholly disrespectful to women are able to come to a country where the standards are higher. This took a LOT of work (and yes, still a work in progress) but feminists will throw us under the bus because it is inconvenient to the powers that be.

You should be livid about it.

Well I agree those profiting from vulnerable people need stopping obviously and we need to be addressing the criminals as in catching and stopping them. This wouldn’t stop people needing refuge and finding other ways to their country of safety.
I am comfortable helping all people requiring asylum worldwide actually and think the world should want to! This statement does not equate to the U.K. taking every refugee in the world - that would never be wanted by most refugees and is rather a fib designed to rile us up about small boats.
Migration can be complex and to help all refugees (not just those feeling safe in U.K.) then I would include us doing things like stop selling arms to Saudi to bomb Yemen and similar. Continuing international aid but taking more steps to ensure it’s directed effectively. Not actually dictating, or trying to dictate how other countries should work. No disinformation- Iraq war for example, but also on a more local level.
For refugees wanting to come to the U.K. then I would prefer we had more accessible/safe routes to claim asylum. We also do take quite low numbers compared to similar countries in cases such as Syria and Afghanistan and I’d prefer that could be more equitable. This would address some small boat arrivals a lot more effectively. We cap numbers on these schemes as we are allowed to do so surely that would help in other areas of high numbers of refugees.
I would also stop the hatred being focussed on these boat arrivals as this doesn’t help anyone, causes distress on all sides, and is a poor and misinformed reflection of our immigration system.
We do need to look at all migration as it gets muddled and muddied with legal and illegal migration- both distinct from asylum seekers. But to look at that we need to address needs in our country in terms of economic viability and skills gaps and shortage sectors.
A lot of the above are difficult and long term and some require international cooperation too.
To directly answer your question then re U.K. - actually no one can put a specific number on a limit on asylum numbers in UK -for the UNCHR countries then we (and all signatory countries) should take all refugees for short term - if war ends for example - or long term from some very difficult situations. This is a legal requirement whilst we remain a signatory. We can put a number on schemes we do help with such as Syria and we do so - and if these safe routes were broadened then we could cap from other areas where larger numbers may need to claim asylum from and reduce the need for small boats that way.
We can cap legal migration and we can address illegal migration but we can’t refuse genuine asylum seekers arriving in our country - not via a normal legal route but essentially not illegal as they are claiming asylum. If they did arrive say on a holiday or as a student then they can’t claim asylum later - that is how it works legally.
If you think the small boats are more full of folk who are not fleeing war and persecution then we can refuse asylum and return - that is also in our rules and law. There has been a backlog for many years that has caused the current situation of hotels etc and addressing that by investing in administrative improvements is surely the quickest and most humane way of dealing with those still arriving.
Whilst most of above won’t happen and I’m idealising my shorter answer is then there is no number I would give for asylum seekers as I do still remain completely comfortable to the U.K. abiding by conventions, international law, and being a place of sanctuary to accept refugees seeking asylum here.

Is it your position that “working class men” vote reform because they have a position of privilege? 😂

Arrogant Britain thinking it can solve the world’s problems.

Tbh climate change is not causing migrants to leave. It is pure economics. If the UK gave them nothing and they had no means of employment, they wouldn’t come.