Reform are getting a shitload of voters

[HeBeaverandSheBeaver]

I have not voted
Reform and live in a safe tory seat But I voted
Lib dem tactical vote

I said ages Ago on here the reform would do really well and was shouted down.

Same as brexit, no one will admit voting for reform but
They still do it in droves it seems.

I'm Willing to bet they
Might win an election in four years at this rate!!

Scary
Times

@Anotherlurkingmale ’Extending voting rights for all elections to all citizens including foreign workers would help counterbalance this. If you're good enough to work in the country and pay your taxes you should be able to have a say in how they're spent.’

No. You need citizenship to vote, same as every other country in the world.

u ok hun? xx

This foreign worker or immigrant stuff is fairly simple if you just think about it.In the 1970s my Dad worked in the Middle East as an Engineer. He was on a contract, his visa was for the one company. No benefits from the country health service. Everything had to be paid for. Not allowed to buy a property. Not allowed to vote. My mum could visit for 2 weeks at a time as a visitor.
At end of his contract he had to leave. There were no obligations or privileges.
These people on the boats demand and get homes and rights and benefits.
Is it fair?

Not true, a number of countries e.g. in Scandinavia allow foreign born residents residing in the country to vote after a set period of time e.g. 3 years in Sweden. I personally would welcome us moving in this direction so that more of our taxpayers get a say in how their money gets spent - would also counter-balance some of the anti-immigrant rhetoric.

My inlaws live in Lincolnshire. They have some terrifying, racist ideas.

You do grasp the concept of " refugee" and " person seeking asylum"?

Something is fairly simple for sure

I think xenophobia and sausages are Lincolnshire’s main exports.

They are paying more in council tax and stamp duty. Fairness doesn't start a jealousy tax.

If I got sent to work with a big oil company in Niger you think I and all the other foreign employees should get to vote and have a say in how the Niger is run? So we could get a say in how we export of earning tax free?

Watering down the benefits of citizenship …. don’t expect people to ever fight and die for an economic zone

When exactly were you in Japan ? The £/yen exchange rate was pretty favourable all through the 80's and most of the '90s. Was it before this

Wow how old do you think I am??? Tbh it wasn’t that long ago that the Yen was strong. I’m not super aware of the exchange rate wrt pounds anyway as I’m not British so not relevant.

If one was being unkind one might describe it as a dying culture, gentle and quaint but certainly slightly stuffy and old fashioned

You probably were in the touristy areas, so it’s not improbable for you to think that. But its youth culture is still quite influential, more influential than most other countries tbh.

It is human nature to immigrate to a nation where your labour is worth more than it is at home, that why our junior doctors are all going to Australia

They are going to Australia because you pay shit wages. Honestly I don’t know how people get on. I feel sorry for the youth here. You don’t care at all about them, gleefully bring in immigrants that compete with them for scarce jobs and housing, will prioritise children of immigrants for good jobs … maybe they should all emigrate, there’s nothing here for them and old British people just don’t care.

@eggplant16 Yes I do understand the concept of " refugee" and " person seeking asylum".
Are you so deluded that you think all those being delivered by boat to our beaches are refugees?
You know they are supposed to seek sanctuary in the closest place not demand that we provide for them.

Yes the Yen being strong favours you if you are working in Japan. Your wages go futher when you come home/ want to buy a house.

You would only have to be the same age as the prime minister to have been an adult in the '80s.

If you have a grasp of things why on earth are you comapring people fleeing to your Dad in the 1970's?

There are others a few pages back who were not recognising that it is possible to employ people in another country without being committed to them for life.

Yes the Yen being strong favours you if you are working in Japan. Your wages go futher when you come home/ want to buy a house

Obviously. But you seem unaware that the Yen was very strong around the time of the Tohoku earthquake

Immigration is a problem now across Europe and North America, and actually in Africa and the Middle East too.

You cannot have a situation where you are welcoming in many people while local citizens cannot find housing, or a doctor or dentist, etc.

And the answer is not "just make more houses and dentists." There is a reason that there is a struggle to do these things, costs are high, there are a lot of constraints. The idea that you could have waiting lists for housing, and large numbers of people sleeping rough, while migrants are being housed, is crazy. It was bound to cause anger.

There are limits to who can be integrated in terms of infrastructure and also just community transformation. Capitalism already stresses out communities, they have shallower roots, families don't have the support they once did, where friends and neighbours could be depended on. It cares more about people moving around according to the needs of industry. That already reduces the number of new people that will be interested successfully.

Even in big cities like London, although workplaces and schools might seem multicultural, many are going home to families and communities that are not that integrated.

The refugee system is becoming a problem. It's aims are great, but it's getting on toward being a century old. The world was a very different place then, and the numbers that were moving around, and the circumstances, were so vastly different. It's unlikely that it is going to survive the coming migration crisis. The is not just a UK thing, it will end up being an international issue.

Immigration isn't the only issue for sure. But if no one will listen about this, I don't see why they would about anyone else.

Housing is built on land. We need to prioritise land for food production and should not be building on agricultural land,

No party, including the Green party, has a realistic solution to climate change.

I used to work in an environmental field and part of the reason I left was the hypocrisy - preaching to people who go on holiday once a year that they shouldn't take a plane whilst jetting their employees off to conferences all around the world all the time.

The message is 'luxury for us but not for you'.

I actually worked in a city which did environmentalism right - the first most basic thing they did was make public transport excellent and extremely cheap. Most people got rid of their cars and just rented one when essential. Of course this was in a country with good trains / public transport in the first place. Where I live now in the UK there is basically no bus (or train) service that can get people to and from work on time, so obviously people have to have cars. x

There are LTNs in my city, as a result my driving time (and distance) has doubled. I can't do the journeys I need by public transport, most people are in a similar situation. It's lovely for the millionaires living right in the city centre who have empty streets around their houses now though.

We either have to build houses. Or ban holiday houses and apartments.

I don't really get this kind of thinking.Citizenship generally implies an intent to stay I a country for the long haul and make a life there permanently.

The idea that we should just let anyone vote to decide the political direction of the country who works here is so odd to me. And what's more - I don't think the workers really expect this. No one goes to work somewhere else and thinks that entitles them to vote. If they want that kind of link, they apply for citizenship.

That being said - there is something to be said for considering, if we really do need workers for a sector (say agriculture) is it right to let them in for a bit, but avoid offering the benefits of citizenship for those who qualify and want it? There is an element of exploitation there, potentially. My partner immigrated from the Caribbean as a young man, with his mum who worked in a factory. I do think if we have made the decision that we are going to import labour it's right to think about those labourers as people we want in society. If we don't, maybe we don't really need them. (In her case she was entitled to immigrate as a commonwealth citizen, which she wouldn't be any more. Her grandkids still back home have no such right.)

On the other hand, there were real issues during that period with native British workers feeling their position in terms of things like pay was being undermined by all the labour from abroad, and I don't think that's necessarily untrue. It's always tricky.

Anyway - there is also something odd about people suggesting it is good to give influence to outside political forces because they want to dilute the voting power of citizens. I sometimes heard that argument about the EU and it always struck me as very odd.

I don’t think @Neurodiversitydoctor really understands multiculturalism- the people she mentions have largely assimilated to Uk culture. The problem isn’t the colour of people’s skin or their religion.it is the lack of intergration. Living here without adopting British values and customs whilst simultaneously criticising the nation. It’s where there is a lack of pride in the nation, a lack of shared values and a lack of interdependence. It is destabilising society as the very things which hold society together are being destroyed.

This is interesting reading when one considers it in the context of immigration https://www.3-16am.co.uk/articles/what-holds-society-together-ibn-khaldun-durkheim-gellner-and-beyond

The thing is, posters looking at 2nd:third generation immigrants who have gone through the English private school system and thinking that’s the same as someone experiencing their community being taken over by immigrants who don’t integrate, which leads to the existing community being torn apart as the infrastructure structure is either overwhelmed or destroyed have no idea and trying to preach about the benefits and success in multiculturalism because their cleaner comes from the Ukraine and Pierre next door works on the trading floor and sometimes pops round with some Camembert and champagne are going to have to understand the real situation many people are facing with the consequences of their community being pulled apart. The crime, the overwhelming of public services the lack of mutual support giving rise to mental health issues etc etc.

This is why Reform is getting popular. People want a working society back.

And you know that there is no legal requirement to claim asylum in the first safe, or closest, country don't you?

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees#:~:text=4.,country%20in%20which%20they%20arrive.

You know they are supposed to seek sanctuary in the closest place not demand that we provide for them

why do so many people believe this?

Because it’s the most sensible thing to do so common sense says they would do this. Everything else looks less like fleeing danger and more like shopping round for economic benefit.

I think people have a hard time understanding that people who are safe would risk their lives once they are already safe.