Or have Labour totally lost the plot wrt women’s rights?

[Lion400]

Does Starmer really underestimate women this much??

‘Would you vote for a party that promised to let men parade around bollock-naked in women’s changing rooms?

Or a party that was alarmingly blasé about gay kids being ‘corrected’ with drugs and surgery?

Or a party that threatened to clamp down on thoughtcriminals who refer to people with penises and testicles – you know, men – as men?

If not, then don’t vote Labour in the upcoming General Election. Because it’s possible it will pursue all of these petty tyrannical policies’

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/03/13/tyranny-in-drag/

And I'm annoyed as well. I see the risks. But I still don't see the logic in setting aside everything else and making it all about this issue.

What will be the point of women's only refuges if they're forced to close or reduce services because of local government cutbacks? What will be the point of women only wards in hospitals if the NHS waiting lists are so long that you can never get near a hospital anyway?

I just don't see how fixing this single issue is going to help women if we allow everything else to crumble in the meantime.

And yes, the Tories have cottoned on to the idea that there is electoral advantage in milking this issue, but they don't really care about women's rights. If that wasn't already abundantly clear from their policies over the last 14 years, it should at least start to become obvious from the fact that their single biggest donor is openly misogynistic. Does anyone think that he is bankrolling the Tories so that they can fight for women's rights?

I’m sure you’re right and they’re told to steer clear of it at all costs and offer platitudes if pressed and then quickly move on. I don’t play that game though.

This. It's a terrible decision to have to make 😫

I get the frustration with Labour. I share it. I will be voting with a heavy heart.

But I don't see a better alternative that I can vote for, and therein lies my problem.

I had a Tory councillor on the door step yesterday, she was very pleased to be asked about women's rights. She is fully committed to promoting women's rights to single sex spaces etc. I told she'd get my vote, a local woman prepared to represent women .

For sure. And i’s a problem of they’re making, not ours. And they could quite easily solve it. Yet they refuse.

Of course she was pleased. What else has she got to offer?

Why aren’t Labour offering it?

I mentioned this below but it helps to look at who is pushing Labour on this

Labour LGBT+ will lobby heavily when Labour shift from gender ideology. You can see this from last year after Starmer said a few things

On an individual level there will be males in meetings demanding policy change. Someone started a thread on a meeting where a Labour MP and male TRA. It is generally not females in front of Labour demanding change on gender.

Then you have some MPs who post along lines of ‘block terfs’ and other and a possible influx of gender ideology after next GE

So the question is how much will all this impact policy? And can women cause enough political discomfort for it not to go against them.

OK.
So surely the same applies to LGBT people being threatened when they organise to discuss their issues?

I'm genuinely confused that you can't see that the polarisation of the debate is causing risk of harm to reasonable people on both sides?

On a wider level, this is where the Tories trounce Labour over and over, election anfter election. In having a clear strategy they’re all united on and a clear message that resonates with voters. Apart from the Blair years, Labour have struggled with this since forever.

Go on then. What are the Conservatives committed to? Can you share their policy documents?

I'm sure that she was delighted to be asked about this.

Is she a local woman prepared to represent all women, or just some of them?

What did she have to say about how she will be representing disabled women, many of whom are having to rely on foodbanks to meet their basic needs?

What did she say about how she will be representing the interests of women who have been raped, who are worried that judges have been advised not to send their rapists to prison because the prisons are full?

What did she say about how she will be representing the interests of black women, who might be worried about her party being bankrolled by a racist misogynist?

Or didn't you ask?

When have GC women threatened LGBT people or events?

Soundbites rather than strategies, surely?

this is where the Tories trounce Labour over and over, election anfter election.

Not in the next one if the polls are anything to go by. In any case, it’s never been an election issue.

Posters are reaching with these claims.

GC women discuss, say no and use reason and facts.

We don’t threaten or use violence, unlike men who use it readily.

They’re sound bites sure, but you can be sure that in the background there is a small army of strategists making sure these sound bites are being wheeled out, as they know it’s a vote winner.

They haven't. Male violence is the problem, so of course GC women aren't doing it.

What is happening though is that violent men are using GC women's events and concerns as a pretext for their violence (see links). So both sides of the debate are suffering violence from others for raising their perspectives. It's unacceptable.

You are creating a strawman here though because pp never said it was GC women causing violence.

Oh OK, I see what you mean now. You were talking about campaign strategies, whereas I took it to refer to strategies that they were going to implement once in power.

Don’t you think Labour SHOULD care about women’s rights?

The Tories certainly know it will win them some votes. Labour are incredibly lucky that:
a) lots of the general public don’t yet appreciate the full issue with the assault on women’s rights (thought this is changing),
b) a proportion of men won’t care, even when they do finally cotton on;

c) the Tories are doing so badly across the board they’re practically giving the election away:
d) Fourteen years in, no incumbent party will ever be in a great position to win and the opposition are usually a shoo-in, if nothing because of voters being tired of the government of the day.

In this election, it’s the Tories who are losing it, rather than Labour winning it.

Yes! Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

Probably just my misreading!

In this election, it’s the Tories who are losing it, rather than Labour winning it.

It always is. The adage that oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them has been around for decades.

You created the strawman, by posting an irrelevant link about violence perpetrated by people that are nothing to do with the GC movement. It had nothing to do with the conversation. The thread title is about women’s rights. It’s not about aggression directed at trans parole by other groups.

I was talking about aggression from trans rights activists, who have been demonstrably aggressive, vindictive and violent and have fought hard to take away women’s rights. There is no equivalent aggression in the GC movement and it is not right to imply there is. Any violence is unacceptable. It’s also unacceptable to link it to people who aren’t involved in it. The violence is not the fault of GC women. Why are you trying ti link it to us?