Or have Labour totally lost the plot wrt women’s rights?

[Lion400]

Does Starmer really underestimate women this much??

‘Would you vote for a party that promised to let men parade around bollock-naked in women’s changing rooms?

Or a party that was alarmingly blasé about gay kids being ‘corrected’ with drugs and surgery?

Or a party that threatened to clamp down on thoughtcriminals who refer to people with penises and testicles – you know, men – as men?

If not, then don’t vote Labour in the upcoming General Election. Because it’s possible it will pursue all of these petty tyrannical policies’

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/03/13/tyranny-in-drag/

Yes, and I’m sure this is part of the reason Starmer feels he can sell women and children down the river and get away with it.

You really are just making stuff up now. If anyone’s “sold women and children down the river” it’s this government. A million children living in, not just poverty, but deprivation. Rape effectively being decriminalised through lack of convictions. Women waiting three weeks for a surgical termination. The list goes on.

Apparently 46% of young mums (under 25) skip meals themselves so that they can afford to feed their children. What are the Tories going to do to protect their rights, I wonder?

Many of the policies are similar at this point including Labour keeping the two child benefit cap.

Also not capping bankers’ bonuses at the other end of the spectrum

The policies won’t bring extra funding. I was pleased to hear an economist use the same term when it came to pretty much the only place a party could get a bump - EU

Sadly I’m not getting clarity on this, both parties are worried about red wall seats, but on economics that’s where it feels realistic to me.

On gender lobby groups pressurising Labour and gender ideology of MPs concerns me.

Agree with all your points about the Tories. But whataboutery aside (because the iniquity of one party doesn’t mean the iniquity of another is a-ok) - why don’t you want Labour to safeguard women’s rights?

You’re rightly angry about what the Tories have done. Are you not also angry about Labour’s failure to pledge to safeguard women’s rights? Or that the Labour movement has been instrumental in the push to take women’s rights away?

Not addressed to me, but fwiw, I am angry with Labour and I do want them to safeguard women's rights.

I am just more angry with the Tories for what they have done over the last 14 years, and on balance, I see them as a much bigger risk. For women specifically, and for people in general.

I think a lot of people are politically homeless these days. Voting for whatever they perceive to be the least worst option, rather than for a party that truly inspires confidence. It is a failure on the part of all parties.

I think a lot of people are politically homeless these days. Voting for whatever they perceive to be the least worst option, rather than for a party that truly inspires confidence. It is a failure on the part of all parties.

Agreed. It is a total failure of the parties and I am angry too. Why are they not ashamed and looking to do better? This is what I don’t understand. In the case of Labour, they just seem to think they can rely on the party faithful to go along with them because they’re not the Tories. That’s just not good enough. It’s appalling, in fact.

Let’s see how the private members bill on this is discussed tomorrow. Will Starmer be there? What will he say?

https://unherd.com/newsroom/liz-truss-targets-labours-weak-spot-gender/

‘If a prominent Labour figure proposed similar legislation to Truss, thousands of women would be cheering. And it’s a measure of how the Labour Party has let us down, remaining silent as MPs like Rosie Duffield are smeared with accusations of transphobia, that even sensible proposals are dismissed as “Right-wing”.’

It will be an acid test. I’ll be watching the votes of Starmer and Labour in general. It’s a great opportunity for him to show he cares about the safety and rights of women and children and will safeguard them. And no, being absent and ducking out of voting, won’t be overlooked.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/private-members-bill/

The truth is, the Tories have been so bad that a lot of people will vote for them by default as the best chance for Not Tory.

All Labour have to do is be less shit than the Tories.

I know there are a lot of single issues voters, but I'd be very surprised if there were more people who care about this issue than those prioritizing their health, ability to pay bills, have decent housing etc. All of which the Tories would continue to ruin.

Are you not also angry about Labour’s failure to pledge to safeguard women’s rights? Or that the Labour movement has been instrumental in the push to take women’s rights away?

Not in the least angry because I don’t believe Labour has done anything of the sort.

What?? How and why do you think this?

Are you not concerned about the safeguarding risks of males in female spaces like changing rooms? Or women’s prisons?

That vulnerable women who’ve been raped don’t have access to support groups that are women only?

Are you not concerned about women in sport losing out to this with an only advantage that comes from a male body?

Are you not concerned about the harms done to children who think they are trans?

If not, why not?

Labour have been pushing this and certainly not weighing in in support of those who have raised concerns. In fact the opposite.

Just two examples for you: Lisa Nandy stating on video that she is very comfortable with trans women (ie men) in women’s prisons. Locked up in a cell with vulnerable women. Or Angela Rayner chanting ‘trans women are women’.

Does this not bother you?

I’m more concerned about vulnerable women who are raped not getting justice. And I believe Dodds when she says Labour pledges to maintain women only spaces. Mordaunt (strongly tipped to be the next Tory leader) says trans women are women, by the way.

Labour have not clarified which spaces are reasonable when it comes to limiting to biological women.

Nor have they said how they will do this legally.

For some reason Dodds and others have managed to avoid question on this.

Labour do care about women's rights and have specific policy aims that will benefit women.

You mean "sex based rights". Even there, Labour are ahead of other parties in their policy position to ensure single sex spaces for biological women only are protected.

The problem is you don't believe Labour will do what they say, not that Labour don't support womens rights.

Spreading this kind of misinformation seems to be the purpose of these threads. People need to be quite hot on fact checking to make proper sense of what's going on.

Labour's declared policies are contradictory, and serve to increase the distrust that they mean what they say re women's sex-based rights.

I think I saw this article shared yesterday. I know that some people won't like the writer / source of it, as it's not on their list of suitable providers of commentary, but it explains the issues well (IMO, obvs).

Yes @NoWordForFluffy it’s worth looking at the wording used and see they hold no weight if clarity is not provided

Which spaces will be for biological women and importantly how?

How will Labour exclude males with a GRC?

No one has provided an answer, not the supporters nor the party.

Others can trust them if they like. I don't, with good reason, IMO.

It's certainly not misinformation to say that their messages are mixed. In fact, I'd say that proclaiming that Labour is a friend of women is the misinformation.

Agree

How will Labour exclude males with a GRC?

How would any party? Can anyone link information that any political party has specifically said they’ll do that? And, if any of them did, how they propose to do it? The Tories certainly haven’t.

That's the aim of the amendment of the Equality Act to clarify that sex = biological sex. That closes the GRC loophole and makes single sex single biological sex, not acquired sex (which is a fucking nonsense anyway). That's the Liz Truss Bill mentioned up thread.

Yep

But it’s not Tory policy.

It won’t be Labour policy so their statement on biological women doesn’t stand to scrutiny.