Or have Labour totally lost the plot wrt women’s rights?

[Lion400]

Does Starmer really underestimate women this much??

‘Would you vote for a party that promised to let men parade around bollock-naked in women’s changing rooms?

Or a party that was alarmingly blasé about gay kids being ‘corrected’ with drugs and surgery?

Or a party that threatened to clamp down on thoughtcriminals who refer to people with penises and testicles – you know, men – as men?

If not, then don’t vote Labour in the upcoming General Election. Because it’s possible it will pursue all of these petty tyrannical policies’

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/03/13/tyranny-in-drag/

No. I'm not googling. You claim something happens, the onus is on you to prove it.

And disingenuous answer re TWAW and TMAM. It's very clear what that means. Do you believe somebody changes sex if they say they have?

I posted an article link the other day about mixed messages. I also posted very specifically earlier this evening. Clearly you missed both of those somehow? Or maybe YOU could do your own research?! 🤷‍♀️

I think I understand you quite clearly.

Okay, I said I’d post them if you didn’t want to look, I’d just hoped that you’d spare me the hassle.

https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/11/01/cis-woman-mistaken-transgender-records-being-berated-bathroom

https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Woman-mistaken-for-transgender-harassed-in-7471666.php

https://www.them.us/story/jasmine-adams-staten-island-deli-attack-mistaken-trans

https://metro.co.uk/2023/05/25/ireland-woman-robbed-and-beaten-by-man-who-thought-she-was-trans-18840850/

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/31/us/man-guilty-hate-crime-beat-trans-woman-restroom-trnd/index.html

https://www.them.us/story/two-cisgender-people-killed-in-transphobic-attacks

I still don’t know what specific statements you are referring to. You made reference to Angela Eagle without providing a specific quote or link - is that the post you mean? Because I was unable to determine what, specifically, you were referencing, and I’m also not trawling back for several days to try and find out what other article you might be referring to.

I do not believe you can change your biological sex. There exists, at law, a mechanism to change your legal sex. I’m not particularly versed in gender ideology but I imagine my belief that same (biological) sex spaces might mean that I’m gender critical? I don’t know well enough and am reluctant to apply a label to myself without doing my homework, so to speak.

Could I have some unbiased sources please? Any source which has 'cis' in it is not one to rely on. Neither is Metro. Them Us? Nope.

Show me reliable sources (as per @BIossomtoes' request earlier) and I'll have a look.

And why would I save you the hassle? It's for the claimant to prove their claim. 🤷‍♀️ Don't be so lazy.

Not trawling back? I posted the link during our discussion the other day. Here you go: https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/03/13/tyranny-in-drag/amp/ (though this likely doesn't pass the pure source test either, but it does explain the issue if you care to read it).

Okay, I think it’s now really plain that you have no interest in a worthwhile discussion, and that you’re not even bothering to read the thread.

Various of the articles I posted describe actual court proceedings, but you’re unwilling to accept them as evidence because, in your brain, any reference to “cisgender” makes a source wholly unreliable as to facts. That is a sign of someone so firmly entrenched in ideological wars that it’s not going to be possible to have a meaningful dialogue - not least since I’m not even advancing a contrary ideology to you.

Incidentally, I’m surprised that the idea that, on some occasions, women (who do not present in a wholly gender-typical way) may be mistaken for transwomen even needs several articles to back it up - I think to most people it should be plain and obvious that it is something that will happen on occasion.

As for the article you just reposted - it’s the article that is in the OP - i.e. the article that the whole thread is about. I did notice that someone, who presumably hadn’t even bothered to read the thread, had reposted it at some stage - I now see that was you.

As it is the topic of the thread, I (like everyone else) has already given opinions. Among other things (and I’m not going to repeat all of them), I’ve pointed out that their denouncement (in quite apocalyptic terms) of Labour (and only Labour) over their plans to modernize the GRC process is a bit rich given that the Conservatives (and Liz Truss in particular) also took steps to modernize the process.

My contributions to this thread have largely been confined to discussing the differences between the platforms of the parties (particularly in the context of uneven political commentary thereon) and the complexities of changes to the law. I regret that I’ve allowed it to shift towards how strictly and evangelically I do or don’t believe in any particular ideology because it rather feels like, having failed to engage me on a substantive level, you’re now just shifting to personal attacks (and yes, I am now responding in kind).

I have zero interest, whatsoever, in further discussion with you. It is a complete waste of my time.

Apart from the term cis in those articles which is unfortunate one thing that stands out is the incident where the person causing the harm is a woman it says she berated the other person

The males used violence

It shows to me women are absolutely right to want single sex spaces.

Oh come on. Haven't you worked out that I'm using the same tactics as others in this thread and others by saying I'm not reading articles from non-trusted sources? I did say what's good for the goose...

And sorry, my peri memory and insomnia are shit. I did say I knew I'd read it somewhere. Ta daaaa, it was this thread. My bad. However, it does explain why Labour are all over the place.

But you're the one who said you had no idea what Angela Eagle had said. It's in the article. So maybe you hadn't read it either?

So you mean the quotes in the article from the OP. I gave my thoughts on page 1 of the thread, and likely continued on from there.

I am tapping out of the discussion, though. I’ve given my thoughts and spent too much of my day absorbed in it at a time when I can’t really afford to right now.

Given the thread linked above. It would appear that they care not much about women’s rights or lack thereof (pretty much the Labour Party in general these days). They have other motivations it seems.

The odd comment about GC women. Although it’s more of a ‘threat to Labour slant’. I guess that’s why they hang out on threads like this one.

Yes despite claiming being uninterested some do spend a fair amount of time on these threads

I’ve just read the JKR article on another thread detailing the threats, abuse and tactics used. There will be other tactics to silence. It’s awful to see.

Are people unhappy puberty blockers were stopped? It’s hard to fathom

I hide those types of threads anyway, so haven’t read it

You should have a scan through, for interest if nothing else. Well if you’re bored. They seem to have a view that they are all being watched by some sort of covert gvt surveillance system.
As incoherent as trans ideology.

This made me laugh a bit but that kind of intensity is a bit ott for me so I’ll stick to seeing pp on these threads telling us off ;

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

😂 You’re quite right..

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/18/garrick-club-men-only-members-list-roll-call-british-establishment

I wonder how many trans men are members. TMAM after all.

Ho. Ho. Ho.

That's my decision too. At least the Tories will.get the teaching of trans ideology out of schools and with it will go the implantation of the idea that people can change their sex.
The safeguarding of children is terribly important, just as important as all the other issues which need attending to now, and.it is one the government can do something about pretty easily.
Of course the fly in the ointment is Labour getting into power..They are besotted with this ideology
Starmer can speak soothingly about about protecting the rights of women and children all he likes but once he gains power, he will renege on that if his track record is anything to go by.
My father and grandfather will.be Birling in their graves but I will vote Tory. If we.can't . stop the Tories.we can at least by voting Tory make.a Labour win less of a super majority. We are going to need an effective opposition.

Oh do go away you fool.

I will be holding my nose and voting Tory having watched the debate tonight on BBC.

Keir Starmer doesn't reassure me at all that Labour recognise that women have rights - in fact he doesnt reassure me at all about any of Labour's policies because he just speaks in very general terms and waffles using the' party line' about everything without giving any specifics about what he would ACTUALLY do.

Angela Raynor's on women's rights views scare me - When Ms Rayner stood to be the deputy Labour leader in 2020, she backed a trans rights charter that described bodies including Women's Place UK, which campaigns for single-sex rape refuges for women, as “trans-exclusionist hate groups”.11 Apr 2024
Angela Rayner stands by trans charter that attacked feminist ...
In 2020, deputy Labour leader backed statement describing bodies such as Women’s Place UK as ‘trans-exclusionist’......................

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58724514Women's and trans rights are not in conflict, says Angela Rayner

But, in some cases they are in conflict Angela! .......... hospital wards.............. rape crisis care centres........ schools ................ intimate care for the vulnerable ............... sport ........... etc

When will the Labour Party understand that women are not fighting AGAINST trans people's rights.

They are fighting FOR women's and children's rights.

Women don't dispute that there are some who struggle with life and who struggle with how they feel and how they want to express themselves.

But many women struggle with being the only ones having to accommodate their wishes.

In 2024 we should be asking ourselves why we aren't making a space for those who feel they are trans women or trans men to feel comfortable,
And trans people should be asking whether they should actually be wanting to be allowed into natal sex spaces if it makes those people uncomfortable - it works both ways!!??

At least the Tories are clear on women's rights (and yes I know they're still spouting the party line about lower taxes etc which is political waffle )
but at least they use their common sense and state their position on protecting women and children - and their SINGLE SEX spaces.

Keir Starmer talks about 'safe spaces', hedges his bets and says what he thinks people want to hear. I still don't know what he actually believes.

And I will never understand why he thinks that people can actually change their sex.

Does he actually believe it, or is he pandering to a very vocal campaigning group?

According to Keir Starmer there are 0.1% of the UK population who think they are born in the wrong sex and who wish to be women - why does he choose to prioritise their wishes over the 51% of the UK population who are are actually born women?

Women's spaces have been given legal protection for very good reasons historically.
Should the same protections not be given to trans people so they feel similarly safe - so allow them their own separate legally protected safe spaces

............... it's such a low point for politics today

I've just had a labour canvasser on my doorstep. When challenged on this issue as I said I'd been made to be in a vulnerable position with men wandering in and out of the toilets in a bar because the toilets were for women and those who were gender neutral, her retort was that she has been in a vulnerable position out and about too and surely the men in my toilets were not identifying as women. No they weren't, they didn't have to identify as anything at all. She said she was more concerned about the NHS than women's rights being taken away. Oh dear Labour, oh dear indeed.

I can't believe I'm writing this but I think I am going to vote Tory too. Holding my nose very firmly all the while. 51% of the population put at increased risk from predatory males? No thanks.

Either that or spoil my paper, using green and purple pens, not that I expect anyone to notice.

But Labour are misogynistic cretins.

I was onthe Jane thread, where she told KS abiut his twaddle. Nice work Jnae.

Now its in the news : Has KS done a-turn-around? Finally grown a pair and said something definite?

"Sir Keir Starmer has said transgender women do not have a right to access female-only spaces, amid confusion over Labour’s stance on which lavatories trans people should use.
The Labour leader said biological males who have legally transitioned should not enter areas designated for women, insisting those spaces “need to be protected”."

news

He'll change his mind again on Friday.

I think you are commenting from quite a privileged position to be honest. What about women who are fleeing domestic violence and are at risk of being placed with biological men? What about going for a cervical screening test and having a biological man conduct the investigation? What about young girls at school having to use gender neutral toilets?There are plenty of scenarios in which this gender bollocks could play out whereby it would totally impede on women’s rights to safety and wellbeing…

I think it’s an incredibly important, modern issue that directly affects .. you know… half of the population.