Will Liz Truss really last only 17 more days? - Part 2

[vera99]

Continuation of the previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4654872-will-liz-truss-really-last-only-17-more-days?page=40

The trouble is it was so effective - I include unseating an 80 seat majority PM and leading us to this

I thought it’d be a shift to the right but not this carnage

We did warn you Marsha.

There may well have been an element of prejudice, of suspicion. As in the Sunaks were just in politics to line their own pockets, with no real loyalty to the UK. It may have been a factor with some voters.

I think if the non-dom story had not broken, then Sunak would be PM now. It was either him or Truss, and they chose wrongly. Truss was not tainted in the same way by living next door to the Boris party bus during Covid. They were just desperate to avoid any more scandals or sleaze allegations - look at how quickly Conor Burns was dispatched, for fuck all really compared to the damage the Chancellor did.

But it's always going to be the Chancellor, FS or HS, isn't it? Party members are very reluctant to vote for someone who has not held one of the great offices of state. It's seen as the grounding for the premiership.

Er that’s just odd

My warning was if you got rid of Johnson we’d shift to the right. Of course no bugger wanted to hear that so here we are.

I don’t feel surprised by where we ended up but from this and Covid response it is sad

And Sunak was always a safer bet. Another campaign that damaged his chances - wife too wealthy. Again people outraged.

Sunak is keeping an extremely low profile, upon advice no doubt. I think that he will reemerge soon but he is probably intending to whip up an appetite for his politics/personality via absence, so that he does not feel devalued for a second time .

I think Sunak’s well aware his party has painted itself into a corner. As Ian Dunt says

They're fucked whatever happens. They're fucked if they stick with Truss and fucked if they switch leader. They're fucked if they U-turn and fucked if they don't. They're fucked if they hold a general election and fucked if they delay it.

If I wasn’t so appalled I’d be intrigued at how they’re going to get out of this because I can’t see a way.

There may well have been an element of prejudice, of suspicion. As in the Sunaks were just in politics to line their own pockets, with no real loyalty to the UK. It may have been a factor with some voters.

Agree but the irony is that the Sunaks are in an ultra-wealthy bracket where they arguably don't need to line their pockets. Unlike Blair and Johnson.

Keep lying, deflecting the blame and hope people won't have long memories?

I think a lot of people expected and wanted a shift to the right, actually, either because they were more right wing themselves, or because they expected it to make the Conservative party even less electable at the next election. The level of chaos caused by how the shift to the right happened was entirely the responsibility of the Conservative Party itself. It was also entirely predictable that the timing of the Brexit referendum (at a time when disrupters and extremists were in the ascendancy around the world) meant it would be disastrous for the economy and European stability if people voted for it.

Yeh I’m sure people did want it, probably in push back to the control and extreme spending during Covid

Every action and all that..

Plus media probably helped it along with ousting the big spender

Neither we nor the media ousted PM Johnson. Stop with the lying/gaslighting.🙄

It's now apparent that the Big Spender had to go. There's no money left. The Tories have wrecked the UK, our rights, our services and our economy. Remember that note in 2010 "No money left"? That's us now. Only this time we are weaker, more isolated, our services more degraded, there is no goodwill left in the population and we are too much of a basket case to deal with on an international stage.

Oh, and the Conservatives have 2 more years of government. Its going to be a very tough 2 years for all of us.

Oh stop it.

I cha getting in ragey posts with you.

Go yell at someone else.

I'm not "yelling".🙄 I'm providing a necessary public service by calling out every Tory lie and attempt at gaslighting whenever I see it.😇

Johnson's own MPs gave him the boot when they eventually realised how unpopular he'd become with the public and that it wasn't going to change.

Of course you do. Not convincing. You are not even understanding the argument just knee jerk reaction.

Johnson played a role in his own downfall but you’d have to be blind not to acknowledge other people played a part. Partygate was a huge campaign that ended successfully.

Why did DM and others say finally a Tory budget or whatever when he was gone.. because they - and their readership - found the spending huge.

I don’t care he’s gone, except that it’s also obvious that people will feel the brunt of cuts as a result. I thought that might be the case beforehand so I’m not surprised.

I only really take note of spending and where I feel comfortable - which is probably Sunak but without the Johnson doing the confetti spending. Although we didn’t get to find out.

You will be busy @TooBigForMyBoots

@MarshaBradyo Are you aware that Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng were members of Johnson's government and so if they thought that the spending was too big they should have done the honourable thing and stepped down, rather than going along with policies they disagreed with?

Discussing the impact of the media on politics is not a ‘Tory lie’

I get people are a bit hopeless at it but still…

If we are now in a position where more austerity is the only answer, then yes, we are totally f*cked. Nobody will believe any more the mantra that there are still efficiency savings to be made in public services, given that every single cut made by the Tories since they came into power has resulted in less efficiency to the point now of near collapse. The fact is, you need investment to make things more efficient. Exhausted, overworked, massively underpaid people working with failing equipment and infrastructure will never be efficient (and will never appreciate political change purely for change’s sake, as that reduces efficiency still further). That’s why wealthy countries tend to be more efficient than poor ones - intelligent wealthy countries run by competent leaders that is.

Iirc Sunak stepped down first precisely because the spending was too big.

Unfortunately we can see where that got us

The DM were right, the spending was huge. But that's the only hit they got right.

PM Johnson was running a profligate, populist Tory campaign instead of running the country properly. TBF, so did Cameron with the disastrously expensive fuck up that was Brexit. PM Truss's attempted to do the same by massive borrowing to fund tax cuts.

We are suffering, not because PM Johnson went, we are suffering due to 12 years of Tory incompetence, arrogance and corruption.

The Conservatives turned further right because Johnson had stocked his Cabinet full of ERGers. They were brought in under his watch because he needed their support because he alienated the One Nation Tories. He wasn't a benign force.

But the Conservatives had choices. Johnson had choices. They could have pivoted to the centre.

The Daily Mail has a right wing owner and edited by a man hoping to get a knighthood from Johnson.
If the Daily Mail was ever truly troubled by Government spending they'd highlight the trading opportunities lost through Brexit.

Iirc Sunak stepped down first precisely because the spending was too big.

You remember incorrectly. There was a difference of opinion as to how money should be spent. There were also significant personal differences.

🙄 not much in it then about spending.

Tedious.