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Politics

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I think the tories will lose

567 replies

ethanrayne · 31/05/2017 21:27

I actually thought they would win, and there was nothing anyone could do. Now I think they will lose.

OP posts:
JustAnotherPoster00 · 01/06/2017 00:57

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-suicide-womans-sister-blames-barbaric-system-for-her-death/

Maybe she was faking eh Raven?

This governments policies are killing us, theyve taken our self respect, theyve taken our dignity, theyve taken our security and all some of us barely have left is our life but dont worry, were all probably 'swinging the lead' right?

Ravenblack · 01/06/2017 00:58

And no I laid no bait - I just gave my views. Just coz people didn't agree, I got laid into and had nasty shit wished on me. Nasty.

Anyhoo I am off for sure now. As I said, the ridiculous frothing at the mouth (from some) is laughable and a bit pathetic to be frank.

sleepyowl12 · 01/06/2017 00:58

@seminormal, @seminormal, I am afraid I don't have the figures of how much it costs to prosecute the low disability fraud cases, as given earlier which stands at only 0.5% to hand and I need to go to sleep soon. I do know sanctions for fraud now are very strict both in fees and prison sentences.

However, as I said previously no system is free of fraud, as the HMRC will tell you when collecting the nation's tax, but the figures show for disability benefit it is low. If people want zero fraud then they would have to stop all payments.

Just to add here is an article explaining the rising and significantly above forecasted costs government are spending by outsourcing disability assessments to private health assesseors Atos and Capita. Despite the high costs nearly 500,000 people rejected for PIP have challenged the decision, and 65% of those who reach a final-stage tribunal have it overturned. Tribunals are paid by the government. Harsh decisions are being made yet the government are not even making significant savings www.disabledgo.com/blog/2016/12/private-firms-rake-in-half-a-billion-pounds-for-cruel-disability-benefit-assessments/#.WS9Vj5F4WhB

Disabled people have been unfairly divided into deserving and shirkers by the Tories and this rhetoric was many argue deliberate to soften up the public in accepting big disability cuts both in disability benefits and social care. Tories believe in a small state and I presume wish for people to pay for insurance in case of disability rather than a state scheme. Not one I favour.

Killdora · 01/06/2017 00:59

Oh come off it Raven. You couldn't be glaringly obviously definitely not disabled if you tried.

ShoesHaveSouls · 01/06/2017 00:59

The problem with Tory austerity is that they're throwing money into private companies for disability assessment, who are then assessing, for example, people with terminal cancer as 'fit to work' and stopping their benefits.

But yes, Raven, you just strop off because someone said a mean thing to you on MN. That's far worse.

GardenGeek · 01/06/2017 01:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

reuset · 01/06/2017 01:01

I'd like to think you were right, OP...

Cakeahoy · 01/06/2017 01:01

Of course she isn't.

Can't really see anyone who has had to go through the hell all disabled people and friends know that these assessments are, and the 60 page forms are, having a good laugh at the frothing of disabled people and a person who has watched a friend die due to the cuts.

ShoesHaveSouls · 01/06/2017 01:03

Of course she isn't.

No, of course she isn't. She wouldn't be saying the horrible things she said earlier if she was.

Vango · 01/06/2017 01:04

So you can say my last point is selfish. I can accept that. But its self-preservation in my case as opposed to greed.

And in the nicest possible way, therein lies the difference. I'm probably someone who is ultimately worse off under a Labour administration but I couldn't, in all conscience, vote for a government who are knowingly, and telling me upfront what they are doing!, cutting education funding and making life even more difficult for the disabled.

I still can't get over the fact that food banks have become an accepted part of society in the UK in the 21st century.

sleepyowl12 · 01/06/2017 01:07

Briefly, it's not only the disability cuts that are harsh but the assessments themselves with so many being unfairly denied and having to go through the stressful tribunal process. Stress often makes physical illnsss and disability worse. People can have different views on which party overall they wish to vote for but it's not credible to suggest disablity cuts haven't been disproportionate to the small amount of fraud involved and harsh overall.

GardenGeek · 01/06/2017 01:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spectre8 · 01/06/2017 01:09

Oh for christ sake do you even understand economics to be trotting out the Tory have borrowed more and increased debt line. Seriously it is deficit you should be looking at not debt. You cannot reduce debt if you have a deficit! At the very least the deficit has been reduced and b 2020 it will be gone, then you can repay the debt.

Dawndonnaagain · 01/06/2017 01:11

The first time I got turned down sleepy I couldn't believe it. Apparently I could do so many things and shitting myself every so often wasn't causing me any serious problems. They actually had a picture of my ulcerated colon, provided by my consultant! But the woman I saw lied, seemingly a not uncommon occurrence.

GardenGeek · 01/06/2017 01:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tobee · 01/06/2017 01:15

Life long Labour voter here and member. I do not want Labour under Corbyn to win. He and McDonnell will cock it all up because they have no experience and are idealist dreamers at best. Therefore, in 5 years time the will be voted out and Labour will be punished for a long time and not elected again.

Also, the Tories chose to have the eu referendum and, as pp have said, should be made to deal with huge chaos and ruin it will cause.

Vango · 01/06/2017 01:23

From FullFact Garden

A Land Value Tax is a tax on the potential value of land itself, ignoring anything that's built on it. It isn’t being proposed as an additional tax, but as a potential replacement for council taxes and/or business rates.

It's not in the Labour manifesto and is an idea, it is said, that might also be considered by the conservatives.

Negative equity is a risk under any administration. And with the relentless rise in property prices in recent years it's hard to envisage a time when my own DC might be able to get onto the property ladder!

sleepyowl12 · 01/06/2017 01:24

@Spectre8, just going to copy and paste what I wrote earlier about Conservative approach to our economy since the global crash.

My economic knowledge is limited, having never studied economics and different economic theories, but papers have reported a fair few leading economists have said they think some of Corbyn's suggestions for the economy are good solid ideas, particularly the creation of a National Investment bank to boost investment across all areas of the UK and for small businesses.

Someone I know who is doing a PHD in economics shared at the height of the global economic crisis most of the wealthy countries in Europe to get their economics back on track employed exactly what Corbyn is proposing now - essential investment in infrastructure, higher public spending, sound investment in health care and education. They are are majorly out performing us in terms of shrinking their deficit.

Despite Osborne implementing austerity we are being out performed by the peseta other economies who did not take the austerity route. As a nation we are being conned into thinking the budget of a country needs to be run like a household- just tighten up in tough times.

Wages for low to middle income have stagnated which means foreign investment is not as high as it could be even with our extremely low corporate tax. Multi national corporations want to know a country has a healthy, educated population with disposable income. All I can observe is that our economy under Osborne and now Hammond has not grown as much as other European countries and the national debt has doubled since Labour lost in 2010. Only the highest earners have enjoyed an improved standard of living and even higher wages.

The person I know gave these figures on expenditure with comparable economies who are outperforming us despite higher expenditure.

Austerity hasn't worked. I am ready to see Corbyn's fiscal policies successfully adopted in other European countries being tried here in the UK.

HelenaDove · 01/06/2017 01:29

"And yes I agree that some people have suffered with their ESA and DLA being cut/stopped/questioned etc, but the fact is that 100s of 1000s have been swinging the lead for a long time, and we all know it. So something had to be done. Unfortunately, some people who deserve to be on disability benefit got caught in the crossfire"

NO NO JUST FUCKING NO. My DHs first assessment was in 1995 NINETEEN NINETY FIVE. (where the assesser sprayed KY jelly all over the dresser while giving DH an unnesscery anal exam.

I saw a post on fb from someone whose terminally ill husband was given an assessment for the sickness element of Income Support in 1986 NINETEEN EIGHTY SIX. He failed cos he could walk 20 metres. Yes the Tories have recycled rules from the 80s. This is now the criteria for failing the PIP assesment.

Lass as a feminist you will be voting for the party that brought in the tax credit rape clause.

And i take it we will see no more posts from you berating low income women for turning to sex work.

GardenGeek · 01/06/2017 01:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JimmyGrimble · 01/06/2017 01:47

Is this helpful?
evolvepolitics.com/right-wing-press-lying-labours-land-value-tax-heres-truth/

HelenaDove · 01/06/2017 01:50

Cardiac patient who was told he was fit to work has third heart attack three hours into his new job as a DELIVERY DRIVER!

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cardiac-patient-declared-fit-work-10522261#ICID=sharebar_twitter
Add message | Report | Message poster HelenaDove Mon 29-May-17 21:06:02
If he had had an accident how would the system have dealt with it. Would they have prosecuted him? How?
Because the system cannot say that he hid/didnt declare an illness when same system has told him that he is fit for work and that that illness doesnt exist.

Food for thought!

HelenaDove · 01/06/2017 01:51

So nothing has been learnt from the Glasgow bin lorry crash!

ShoesHaveSouls · 01/06/2017 01:55

All page 86 of the manifesto says is this:

"We will initiate a review into
reforming council tax and business
rates and consider new options
such as a land value tax, to ensure
local government has sustainable
funding for the long term."

At the moment people with smaller houses pay a disproportionately higher amount of council tax - so it may even work in your benefit. If it happened, it would replace council tax. Labour will be more likely (ideologically) to tax rich landowners more than people on 18k who have bought a house with a garden.

fullfact.org/economy/labours-land-value-tax-will-you-have-sell-your-garden/