Could somebody explain why Corbyn shouldn't be voted for as Labour party leader?

[Myturnnow4]

I've listened to people argue this, but haven't heard a reasoned argument yet. The main criticism appears to be, "he's on the left" but don't go on to explain why that in itself is a bad thing.

"It is because they have no faith in the current lot and are crying out for change,"

A change back to 2010 and Italian and French growth/unemployment rates, I can see the attraction. lol

Anyone who thinks that with a £1,600,000,000,000 (£1.6 trillion) of National Debt and a current £70 billion annual budget overspend, cutting that back is called "austerity" - and thinks that policies like ideologically raising a few £billion a year if lucky with 50% tax rates will solve all our problems - should be laughed out of responsible politics, especially if in a position to make UK laws.

You could put every rich/wealth creator up against the wall, shoot them, rob them, and it still won't sort that debt out.

But the far lefties have to keep that to themselves, right?

'but poorly thought-out & badly implemented change, that's not going to do the poor any good.'

This is the message the Establishment politicians want to present about Corbyn. But what if they are lying just as they lied over weapons of mass destruction?

They will try everything they have got to stop Corbyn, just as they tried to stop Farage. It will depend what the people do and if Corbyn offers them a really radical positive future of a better Britain, then there will be a landslide for Corbyn and the entire game will be over.

'Anyone who thinks that with a £1,600,000,000,000 (£1.6 trillion) of National Debt '

Osborne almost doubled it in just 5 years. Corbyn will take back our industries, slash the waste on management salaries and bonuses and overcharging of the public and invest the profits back in the country.

Yes, but those London voters polled (not all Labour) preferred COrbyn by fa to the party elite's candidates

So what? Suppose it's true. That means that Labour pile up bigger majorities in London's Labour seats (which are votes that make no difference to government) and possibly win some Con-help Lab/Con marginals in London, of which there are about ten.

That's a hung parliament, assuming that all this socialist nirvana doesn't cause any losses in Lab-held Lab/Con marginals.

What next? The stage for the 2020 GE is not London.

I remember 1983 - and how this allowed Mrs T to smash the post-WW2 social consensus and change our country permanently.

Michael Foot had genuine intellect and accomplishments, whereas JC managed to fail his trade union studies degree at North London Poly.
JC just looks good because of the pathetic pygmies he is up against - He'll win the leadership to the sound of Tories popping the champagne corks.

We should deal with the world as it is and the voters as they are, rather than as we think they both should be.

Labour's detailled investigation of their defeat is in their report "Listening to Labour’s Lost Voters," Guardian and was based on Focus Group interviews with those who voted Labour in 2010, but then didn't in 2015.

It found those voters substantially to the right of Labour on several key issues, including this (maybe explaining the Labour-UKIP swing) :
“Immigration is the topic that, left to their own devices, the respondents would have talked about all night. Their central arguments, across all groups and repeated frequently, were along the lines that our country is full, our country is broke and public services are creaking and cannot stand extra strain.”

Pneumometer, the mistake you are making is that you seem to think that Tory and UKIP voters and non-voters will not change and vote for Corbyn.

They will vote for Corbyn because Corbyn is the only politician brave enough to solve the real probles facing most people. It is not the national debt (which Osborne nearly doubled), it is personal debt, job insecurity, low wages, high living costs, high housing costs, astronomical education costs and a precarious future with cuts to more and more services and greater privatisation. Corbyn will sort that out and the national debt will sort itself out as the country grows again with investment in manufacturing and production rather than in a capitalist casino of banking.

If we left everything to the markets, we would still be poorly educated without an NHS. Corbyn understands that his duty is to serve the people and provide a better life and better prospects for them and the bankers and the metropolitan elite are going to have to get used to it.

They will vote for Corbyn because Corbyn is the only politician brave enough to solve the real probles facing most people

A few months ago you said almost exactly the same thing about Nigel Farage.

and in fact immigration is a great example of a problem that it's impossible for Britain to fix on its own, as with environmental issues, a world-wide, and at the very least an EU wide approach is needed. The single nation showing the financial markets who's boss - didn't work for Greece, did it? Similarly UK pols are pretty powerless to unilaterally end immigration unless we leave the EU and that has other wide-ranging implications.

claig you are repeating almost verbatim your pronouncements about how Farage was going to storm the citadel of power held by your favourite bogeymen 'the metropolitan elite/Oxbridge graduate politicians, etc., etc.' and applying them to Corbyn. Your pronouncements did not come to fruition in the recent General Election, yet you still believe you know what 'the people' want and who they will vote for, I certainly wouldn't bet 1p on your predictions as your ability to foretell the winners is somewhat lacking.

This is what the Guardian's Polly Toynbee thinks the Labour leadership is about and this is all the Labour Oxbridge candidates have to offer the people of Britain

"This isn’t religion, it’s about how to save Sure Start, abolish the bedroom tax, restore tax credits, stop savage benefit sanctions that send families to food banks"

That won't win an election, that is not a vision, that is more of the same, just Tory lite. Corbyn has challenged the entire political consensus, the entire austerity system and neoliberal system and that is why he has enthused the public and awakened their dormant wishes which the BBC and the elite's media refused to address or even ask about. The people are now out of their control, they are at a loss about what to do.

Yesterday they had Labour MP, Jess Phillips, on Newsnight, laughing at how none of the 200 doorsteps she knocked on even mentioned Corbyn. None of them will be laughing soon, because there are hundreds of thousands of newly enthused Labour members and they are making history.

On Sunday, we are told that Gordon Brown will make a speech. I expect things will be so despearte for the elite by then, that the BBC will clear all the schedules and broadcast Gordon Bennett's speech live as he throws every hand gesture in the book and begs Labour Party members, probably on his knees, to come back and choose an approved Establishment candidate from Oxbridge instead of the left wing rebel Corbyn.

But everyone knows it won't work. Everyone knows Gordon is history and Corbyn is making history.

Indeed Pneu it is incredibly difficult to take someone seriously when they perform such a volte face, steadfastly believe they know what 'the people' want and will do (when these same people did not do as so confidently predicted recently) and parrot meaningless statements about how one person will wave a magic wand and solve all our ills in one fell swoop.

claig you are repeating almost verbatim your pronouncements about how Farage was going to storm the citadel of power held by your favourite bogeymen 'the metropolitan elite/Oxbridge graduate politicians, etc., etc.' and applying them to Corbyn.'

Yes because it is the same underlying phenomenon, whether left or right - the people's dissatisfaction with how we are governed by our gatekeeper class of Oxbridge graduates who serve the system and not the people.

Could somebody explain why Corbyn shouldn't be voted for as Labour party leader?

Coming back to the original topic:
No, there is no reason why Labour members and supporters should not vote for Corbyn. He is lot better choice than the other contestants.

And Tories, the Liberals, Greens and all from other parties.

Stay away.

A few months ago you said almost exactly the same thing about Nigel Farage.'

And 4 million voted for Farage (with only one MP), almost half of the entire amount who voted for the established Labour Party.

But Labour is much bigger than UKIP and the fact that the rebellion which led to the rise of UKIP has in a different sense now spread to Labour indicates that the change that is coming will be enormous. It won't be UKIP anymore. I never thought Corbyn would appear when UKIP were causing havoc among the elite, but Corbyn changes everything, he will eclipse UKIP and it will become irrelevant. It is a shame for me because I prefer Farage to Corbyn because Farage has much more common sense.

But Farage lacks Corbyn's courage to overturn most of what was considered undoable and that is why Corbyn will win and why he derseves to win because he will fix many more problems than UKIP could ever fix.

Claig - no, you are assuming that the public who picked Tories in 2015 did so because they think the Tories will fix all of society's problems. They don't, the tories offered to reduce what the government would do, not increase it. Regardless of what all the polling said, in the end, that seems to be attractive to the electorate. That's hard to swallow if you're more of a "roll your sleeves up and work out how to fix the problems" - but I do have to accept, most people don't want government meddling even if it would be good for them, yes I know I sound like 'nanny knows best'

I think Corbyn is a dangerous choice because he's not going to win a pile of Tories over to Labour. I don't want Tories winning in 2020.

Yes we benefited enormously because of Mrs Thatcher and Corbyn will enable that to happen in a sense again which is why so many Tories want him elected as Labour leader.

'Claig - no, you are assuming that the public who picked Tories in 2015 did so because they think the Tories will fix all of society's problems.'

No, they didn't expect fixes, they just thought the Tories were better than Miliband and the Polly Toynbee, Yvette Cooper Sure Start vision.

'the tories offered to reduce what the government would do'

Yes and I agree with small government and getting the bureaucrats off our backs and paying low taxes if the alternative is Polly Toynbee and Miliband. But Corbyn is a complete gamechanger because there is nothing wrong with big government if it is good government and that is what Corbyn offers and Polly Toynbee and Miliband did not.

'most people don't want government meddling'

I agree, unless the government meddling can solve housing, employment, free childcare, free lifelong learning, scrap tuition fees and nationalise our key industries and stop them ripping us off wth their above inflationary price increases and their bosses on million pound salaries.

Corbyn is going to win the Labour leadership and then slowly the elite will release the polls of how the public see him and there will be a huge surprise as he is shown to be very popular, and then the elite's panic over Farage will happen all over again but this time over Corbyn and Labour and it will be like nothing we have yet seen.

When this 'Brave New World' you describe doesn't happen claig would you be good enough to come back and admit that you actually have no idea what 'the people' want?

Impossible, because I know what the people want. I am not out of touch like the Westminster bubble are.

"Jeremy Corbyn woos Londoners as Ukip and Lib Dems flock to Labour leadership frontrunner"
...
The research surprisingly revealed that Corbyn, despite his socialist stance, had the most support among Ukip (62%) and Liberal Democrat (36%) voters."

www.ibtimes.co.uk/jeremy-corbyn-woos-londoners-ukip-libdems-flock-labour-leadership-frontrunner-1515514

Wait until the BBC take Jess Phillips, Labour MP, off TV and put Corbyn on and let him explain his policies. Then many more voters - including middle class Tories - will flock to him as well as the UKIP ones.

'had the most support among Ukip '

We, the people, are all the same, we want the same things. It is the metropolitan elite - the Guardian, the BBC, Westminster - who are against Corbyn. Wait until the real polls about Corbyn surface when voters hear his policies and can recognise his face.

Well you misjudged what 'the people' who voted at the last General Election wanted claig.

And that's your biggest mistake claig 'the people' categorically are not all the same nor do they want the same things, nor do they believe in the same things.