Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

@Parker231, I wonder how they do manage. I have been in too many situations where the generally accepted view was not including a particularly favourable outcome. I cling to my faith, it's what gives me hope in life and of life itself.

I’ve never needed any religious faith in my life as I’ve never believed in it. To me it sounds bad needing to cling to a faith. Do you need it to be happy?

But I believe Jesus came to redeem the whole world, so I'm full of hope that He has ways of reaching us all in the end.

@Mustardseed86, well there you go! And people of faith talking about their experiences, or just listening to others and providing practical help and support might just be the thing that makes the difference. Each of us has to feel our way into this, and hope we are being lead by Christ. But He has all knowledge, He knows how to lead us. We can have faith in that too.

To me it sounds bad needing to cling to a faith. Do you need it to be happy?

@Parker231, I prefer to be happy than sad.

And you need a god to be happy?

@Parker231, no. God is God. Part of worshipping means I don't require Him to be anything according to my will.

So you don’t need a god to be happy with your life? DT’s went to an international school so their friends worshipped a variety of different gods - DT’s were exposed to many religions - we were happy for them to go to any religious events with friends but they are also atheists

Not 'a god'.

God, the creator. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Do I need him to be happy? Well, I'm not happy all the time, and I don't think that's the point of God. I just know He is with me, that's it really. For me, life would feel empty without Him.

@Parker231, I dearly hope God is happy with my life but I don't require it because I might unwittingly behave or think in a way not in accordance with His will. I am not yet perfected! So still learning.😉

People worship different gods - which religion are you. These gods need to collectively get their act together and start helping the people of Gaza - not doing much good at the moment!

But, really, whenever anyone trusts in anything without direct experiential evidence it's a kind of faith in something.

See, I generally only trust anything or anyone once I have had or seen the evidence.

So I don't have 'faith' in anything or anyone, not even a god, without any evidence.

People worship different gods - which religion are you.

Sorry, I thought it was obvious I'm a Christian.

Have you ever investigated faith in general, or Christianity in particular? There are lots of good resources if you're interested. I ask because you don't seem aware of quite basic things like the Trinity.

Also, do we worship different gods? You'd get a variety of answers to that question. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are monotheistic (we believe there is only one God). Many people would say we worship the same God by different names, although obviously there are important areas of disagreement between these faiths. Hinduism (I believe) also essentially believes there is one creator, called Brahman. I think the other gods and goddesses are seen as different aspects of Brahman, but I could be wrong about that; Hinduism is very diverse in belief and practice AFAIK.

These gods need to collectively get their act together and start helping the people of Gaza - not doing much good at the moment!

Christians believe we live in a world which is affected by sin, in other words by our collective decisions not to be in harmony with God. Sin and death (which encompasses all the physical suffering we experience) are seen as going hand in hand. We have freedom to choose to do right or wrong, and Christians also believe we have the help of the Holy Spirit, who can guide and strengthen us. But none of us is promised a life without suffering; sadly that is the effect of the Fall which brought sin into the world. It's particularly distressing when that suffering is brought on innocent children though. As a Christian I look forward to a better time both after my own death and in the new creation when the Messiah (Jesus) returns. And I believe it's my duty to try to bring about a better world here and now. Christians are meant to be a light to the world. I know there are people of all faiths and none working to ease the suffering in Gaza, although obviously it's complicated by the fact that the leadership there are murderous terrorists. Again, we are all given choices, and sadly the consequences of those choices fall on people in a very unjust way at times.

@Mustardseed86 - have read plenty of material about Christianity - helps confirm to me that being an atheist is the right choice. Currently reading some articles on the Mormons - eye opening about what a restrictive life they are expected to follow.

As a Christian I look forward to a better time both after my own death and in the new creation when the Messiah (Jesus) returns.

Have you ever considered that those may not happen?

I see no evidence of any Gods existing and certainly not doing much in protecting innocent children in war zones.

Ah, ok. You asked what religion I follow which I thought was odd as I'd made it pretty clear! Anyway, it sounds as if you've made up your mind, so I wish you all the best.

Yes, I think most people of faith have considered things like that. I'm only sharing what I believe, which is obviously where my considerations have led me.

Humans have always had a sense or belief in the divine, and I see evidence for God in the very facts of existence, not to mention revelations in Scripture, and the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. There's evidence of miraculous (and frankly, demonic activity) if you care to look for it. But I know we live in a skeptical age.

But I know we live in a skeptical age.

Maybe we live in a more rational age, a more scientific age?

Those aren't mutually exclusive. I do think there's a tendency to think 'science' explains everything. But why the universe exists in the first place and runs on scientific principles, why we exist on a planet which provides the precise conditions for life to thrive, and have the ability to invent and discover things which are almost beyond imagining, why we alone seem to have a sense of our own mortality and a nature that questions our place in the cosmos, why we search for meaning, why you will always find that people seek to connect with the divine in any culture at any time, etc etc, are beyond the scope of science IMO.

Not so much in terms of finding physical causes or affects of certain phenomena (you could tell me which bits of my brain light up when I pray for example), but why there is something and not nothing and why the human race is capable of such profound achievement and destructiveness, and what it all means, just the basics of being a spiritual being as opposed to purely pragmatic little worker bees, is not really science's remit. And that's fine.

A friend told me she had read this and I thought it summed up the position correctly - ironically I was showing her around the Cathedral in Quebec at the time!

“the most simple reason why somebody might not believe in a god is that he or she doesn't see any persuasive reason or evidence to believe. They don't feel the need to believe in a god to explain the world around them. Nor do they believe a god is necessary for human beings to lead good, happy, and meaningful lives.”

Yes, I would assume those reasons. Isn't that just what basically all atheists say?

I thought it was a well written sensible statement - no drama just facts

Fair enough!

@Mustardseed86 the problem with saying 'Christian ' in answer to the question about what religion you are is that it answers nothing. There are so many different kinds of Christian and most of them think they're the only 'right kind. Looking in from the outside, it's hard to work out who is right. Equally atheism also comes in many different forms. Bottom line is that nobody can know they're right, there's only ever belief.

I agree - people have different thoughts on atheism. For me I don’t believe in the existence of any gods (small ‘g’), any higher powers or a spiritual force of any kind. The Catholic Church believes that being an atheist is a sin!!

@Parker231 the Catholic Church can believe what it wants. Sin isn't a thing. The use of it as a concept is a way of controlling people, is all. This is why all law should be secular - people are complex, life is complex. Hardcore Christian groups believe that premarital sex is no different in terms of how bad it is from murder. That right there makes the whole concept of sin a load of bullshit.