Are Court Seers/Oracles/Astrologers still used today?

[Inspecto]

Throughout history there appears to be a Court Seer/Oracle/Astrologer that Kings and Queens or other leaders turn to for guidance. And their insights were taken seriously in decision making too.

Documentary on Netflix suggests the blood moon during the fall of Constantinople spelled omens. Heeding these astrological omens influenced Ottoman leader Mehmed II’s decision making, leading to his side successfully conquering Constantinople, modern day Istanbul.

I think it’s fascinating that an astrological omen was identified, taken seriously in decision making by a leader and acted on with the predicted results coming true.

Do modern day leaders (kings or queens or emperors or empresses) still turn to omen and spiritual sign readers? Or has that art been lost or dismissed in favour of something else?

@Inspecto,

But if I had to guess: maybe God was marketing a display of formidable power.

I would suggest this speculation is potentially incredibly hurtful to people of faith who lost loved ones due to COVID. We really don't have to speculate in this way. What good does it do?

@Inspecto, if you have faith I would suggest you pray for the answers you need.

I don’t know. Potentially it could be both, like a warning omen to get us to stop and think a bit.

Some people have said that as far as plagues go, corona virus could have been a lot worse.

And in the story of the 10 plagues of Egypt, the plagues get progressively worse until God is heeded.

Thank you.

I'm afraid I haven't caught up on the full thread as yet. I think you're massively over thinking this @Inspecto and I say that as someone who is more open to what a lot of people might call conspiracy theory.

The sun always has a Corona, that hasn't changed so I wouldn't see it as a sign of anything. Do you believe God has sent Covid19 as a punishment on the world? This is a possibility, but have you read Revelation? When the time of Great Tribulation arrives it will make this pandemic look like a summer picnic!

A few years ago, there were 4 blood moons which coincided exactly with major Jewish festivals - I would take that as a more obvious sign from the heavens. You might like Jonathan Chan - he's very good at interpreting this sort of thing.

Getting back to women, I'd also point out that although it was Eve who first took the forbidden fruit, the Bible states that sin entered the world through one man (Adam).

Sorry, * Cahn

That’s why I don’t think the church will talk about it openly and honestly - because it’s horribly painful.

Could God Be Behind the Coronavirus Pandemic?
“Whether you’re religious or not, or even if you just think about God from time to time, it’s almost impossible to avoid the question: Is God behind this pandemic that’s causing so much suffering in our world? One thing is for sure: you cannot believe in God without asking this question.” timesofsandiego.com/opinion/2020/07/24/is-god-behind-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

Whether you’re religious or not, or even if you just think about God from time to time, it’s almost impossible to avoid the question: Is God behind this pandemic that’s causing so much suffering in our world? One thing is for sure: you cannot believe in God without asking this question

That is one opinion. I do believe in God and what I would say is that it is not up to me to issue ultimatums upon other people's relationship with God.

That’s why I don’t think the church will talk about it openly and honestly - because it’s horribly painful.

Indeed. So if followers of Christ, the church will not talk about Corona in this way perhaps that tells you something about how Christians (or a least a significant group of them) go about seeking and finding God. 🙏

@faretheewell Thank you also for this passage. 😊

"32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

(Matthew 6:32-34 New International Version)

You're very welcome. 🙂

Yes and no. I think it’s a question of being brave enough to have this uncomfortable conversation too. Courage is a virtue - this is a difficult subject to talk about openly and honestly - but the difficulty is also the reason to have the conversation.

I’m concerned church leaders might be a bit Laissez-faire too. They have other problems with failing numbers - and they might just be scared or not know what to do themselves.

No such thing as a stupid question - and I know I’m not the only one who is asking. So that’s why I think there should be a conversation - others might be interested too.

“We really don't have to speculate in this way. What good does it do?”

I had to think about this. I don’t think it’s good to be wilfully blind and deaf - I think it’s important to heed.

If God has been behind corona and sending some sort of warning omen to stop and think a bit… then we shouldn’t ignore the message or sign.

No good can come from ignoring valid warnings.

@Vincitveritas ”A few years ago, there were 4 blood moons which coincided exactly with major Jewish festivals - I would take that as a more obvious sign from the heavens. You might like Jonathan Chan - he's very good at interpreting this sort of thing”

That’s very interesting.
Thanks for letting me know about Jonathan Chan.

I had to think about this. I don’t think it’s good to be wilfully blind and deaf - I think it’s important to heed.

If God has been behind corona and sending some sort of warning omen to stop and think a bit… then we shouldn’t ignore the message or sign.

No good can come from ignoring valid warnings.

I would point you to this :

"22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:22-24 New International Version)

So, if this is truly acknowledged, the warning has already been heeded and understood (ahead of the event). If not the warning may well serve.

But we don’t know if the Archbishop of Canterbury even realises there’s a potential warning omen that needs to be seriously needed. It doesn’t look like he sees anything god-related in the corona pandemic.

The Church of England has never crowned a divorced man as King, let alone one who has publicly confessed to adultery – with the relevant woman expecting to be crowned Queen Consort.
At the very least I’d like to hear the Archbishop of Canterbury reconcile the coronation he is doing with the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:14 ‘Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery’). If he honestly believes Charles and Camilla have meaningfully repented and been forgiven, then I think he should publicly say. Otherwise, his crowning of a couple who famously committed adultery risks undermining the legitimacy of God’s Ten Commandments.

I have thought about writing to Lambeth Palace just to let them know about my questions - but I suspect it’s a waste of my time. Then again, if you don’t ask then you will never know. And I don’t want any regrets.

*heeded

@Inspecto, what is your stance on forgiving and judging others especially in light of the fact all (of us) have sinned?

And who is perfect enough to be rightfully crowned in your view?

And how do you reconcile the origins of The Church of England?

But we don’t know if the Archbishop of Canterbury even realises there’s a potential warning omen that needs to be seriously needed.

You should definitely write to him about this. While he is an Oxford scholar and theologian I imagine he’s very busy and hasn’t necessarily had the time to give proper thought to all of this.

@faretheewell Although nobody knows the day or the hour, I think it's also important to take notice of signs, as explained in Matthew 24, when Jesus instructs us to "keep watch". Also Acts Chapter 2, "And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day."
There are other verses on the same theme.

@Inspecto I understand your concern with respect to King Charles' coronation but I'm more worried by this from The Elijah Interfaith Institute, who have taken it upon themselves to re-write the Ten Commandments in the name of climate change:

'We return to Sinai in a movement of repentance and quest. We seek a new vision for humanity and its endangered existence, and we seek to receive and amplify a message of life-
sustaining living and habits that humanity needs to hear today. In this spirit, the project partners will bring together premier religious leaders from the world’s major religions to gather upon Mount Sinai to engage in a first ever Climate Repentance Ceremony, and to put forth a prophetic interreligious call to action: “Climate Justice: Ten Universal Commandments.” '

I don’t know.

“It wasn't until the fourth century, when the Roman Empire domesticated Christianity, that theologians began promoting support for earthly kings. Old Testament passages were torn from their context to suggest that all kings are anointed by God. In reality, God said that by asking for an earthly king, the Israelites had "rejected" him (1 Samuel 8:7-9).” - Have you seen this article by Symon Hill: 'Not My King!' Why, as a Christian, I am willing to be arrested for opposing the monarchy

It feels like the chickens are coming home to roost for the Church of England (see the latest census results too).

I think it was reasonable that Henry VIII wanted a divorce for the purposes of having a son and heir (maybe the Roman Catholic Church should have compromised a bit). But I think the foundations of the Church of England may be tainted by his decision to behead the woman, Anne Boleyn, who he divorced his first wife for because that’s essentially murder (and I don’t believe Henry VIII had any rights to rob Anne Boleyn of her life or to rob his young daughter Elizabeth 1st of a mother). Not a great sign that he ended up with 6 wives to go with a Horrible Histories lyric: “divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived.”

The foundations of the Church of England are not wholly holy. They seem to be political, not spiritual. So I wonder what God has to say about it given they’re using God’s name to justify themselves?

I don’t understand what they’re saying? Do they have a platform on the world stage like Charles and Camilla? Doesn’t seem like it…

I also think Charles’ coronation is very much set up for the world stage too. All the world’s a stage for the coronation of a couple who famously committed adultery and expect to be Head of the Church of England. I have no idea how God will react - and as you can tell, I am concerned. But I do think the Archbishop of Canterbury is the one who needs to pause and think this one through (if he hasn’t already).

@faretheewell what is your stance on forgiving and judging others especially in light of the fact all (of us) have sinned?

I think forgiveness is incredibly valuable, priceless and important because we’re not perfect. But because forgiveness is so precious, it must not be treated carelessly. Forgiveness is fragile because it’s intrinsic with and to trust. Trust is sensitive and delicate.

With Charles and Camilla - they are asking to be crowned - that is a huge ask. In committing adultery they demonstrated an unwillingness to sacrifice their carnal passions for the sake of the institution of marriage or not hurting other people involved. Diana was very much the victim of their adultery - and I don’t think either Charles or Camilla cared about that then or care about it still (knowing she died a tragic death when very young).

Timing of Charles becoming King coincided with The Crown (corona again!) Netflix show reminding the world about Diana. There was a third person here. Have we forgotten? Are our memories so short?

Are you saying coronavirus was a consequence of Prince Charles' actions?

That seems overly simplistic especially since the corona originated in Asia and became a global problem. Probably a tip of the iceberg issue.

What is the British corona/crown’s history like with Asia? Could another god have a grievance against the British crown/corona and want to draw the world’s attention to it?

If that’s the case, then the British crown needs the Christian God’s protection - but that wholly depends on how the Christian God feels about things and if they’re willing to protect and defend. I imagine that God’s protection is costly, like any other form of protection service.

As for Prince Charles. I think it’s fine that people make mistakes - it happens all the time. But it’s a different problem when that person is royalty and next in line to the throne and Head of the Church of England. Charles was unwilling or incapable of sacrificing his carnal passions for the institution of marriage and that in turn hurt the mother of his sons and heirs (she went on to die tragically and young too) - and then Charles just went on to feel both he and the mistress he committed adultery with are now both worthy of the crown/corona.

I’m deferring this concern to Almighty God. And will pray about this because I don’t know.

@Fleur405 But I will see if I can muster the courage, coherency and words to write to the Archbishop of Canterbury and Lambeth Palace. I have a wretched gut feeling and I don’t want any regrets. If he ignores me, which I expect he will, at least I’m safe in the knowledge that I said something even if no one believed me.