Are Court Seers/Oracles/Astrologers still used today?

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Throughout history there appears to be a Court Seer/Oracle/Astrologer that Kings and Queens or other leaders turn to for guidance. And their insights were taken seriously in decision making too.

Documentary on Netflix suggests the blood moon during the fall of Constantinople spelled omens. Heeding these astrological omens influenced Ottoman leader Mehmed II’s decision making, leading to his side successfully conquering Constantinople, modern day Istanbul.

I think it’s fascinating that an astrological omen was identified, taken seriously in decision making by a leader and acted on with the predicted results coming true.

Do modern day leaders (kings or queens or emperors or empresses) still turn to omen and spiritual sign readers? Or has that art been lost or dismissed in favour of something else?

Or has that art been lost or dismissed in favour of something else

Like, reality perhaps?
Bonkers

Did you see the 1 minute Netflix clip used to illustrate the situation? m.youtube.com/watch?v=U30TesC8Fg0

It’s part of a longer documentary series. But this actually happened in reality and is part of modern-day Istanbul’s history.

Had Mehmed II not heeded the astrological omens then maybe the outcome would have been different. And the course of history would have been different too. He made a choice to heed the signs - and it paid off. I think things like that can give leaders under immense pressure hope and courage in otherwise depressing situations. But do modern day leaders still have omen readers?

But do modern day leaders still have omen readers?

As before- NO!!! They have other members of government/ advisors/consultants.

This.
And better technology and communication.

So officially they don’t publicise it.

We don’t know if they unofficially and secretly do consult omen readers. Gotcha.

Not really a gotcha, as you could ask any question like that and use the answer “We don’t know if they unofficially and secretly do that”

does the PM do the chicken dance before making a big decision?

not officially, but we don’t know if he does unofficially and secretly

But better technology and communication (which I agree helps) is very very different to a seer reading astrological omens.

In the Netflix documentary scenario, I think the technology and communication would likely have advised Mehmed II very very differently to the astrological omen advisors. But we know that Mehmed II succeeds in taking Constantinople (modern day Istanbul) thanks to the encouragement of astrological omens of the red moon that night. The expert analysis of this is fascinating.

I can’t imagine modern day leaders doing that. But it made me wonder how it might change the outcome of so many things if they ever did…

Didn’t the Reagans use an astrologer? I’d be surprised if many other modern Western leaders do; but I think they may still be a feature in other parts of the world with different dominant religions, eg. India.

In 1066, William the Conqueror saw Halley's comet as a sign from heaven; the Anglo Saxons saw it as a sign of doom..

I really think it unlikely that anything like that goes on these days though.

That’s not an equivalent example. There’s no historical basis for the PM doing the chicken dance before making a big decision - and if they do then that’s a PM’s personal preference, not a well-known tradition.

I’m talking about a Court Seer/Astrologer/Oracle, which do have historical and traditional basis.

If we still have a monarchy (‘by the grace of God’ and ‘defender of the faith’) then why not also compliment the institution with a gifted Court seer/Astrologer/oracle to interpret signs and omens from God? Or does the Archbishop of Canterbury fulfil that sort of role nowadays?

Officially, omens / astrology / the supernatural are opposed by the church, so...

I didn’t know that about Ronald Reagan before. Thank you.

Ronald Reagan actually used this San Francisco astrologist to make presidential decisions

They are… but that doesn’t mean the church doesn’t recognise there’s something to it. Prophecies are still a thing in the church, for example.

In the Netflix documentary about the fall of Constantinople. The Roman Catholic Church were defending, but still aware of the prophecies and omens.

Knowing how the opponent thinks is critical. If the opponent is looking to astrological omens as part of their decision making strategy, then that’s useful intelligence to consider, isn’t it?

Diana was keen on astrology wasn't she?

This thread makes me think about all those courtiers who eventually were made redundant! Who was the last One appointed to the Stool?

They can't do, as no astrologer would recommend Charles' coronation happen on a full moon eclipse (as is scheduled).

Yes, they are still linked in with churches, spiritual advisors.

Had Mehmed II not heeded the astrological omens then maybe the outcome would have been different.

Well yes, but if Mehmed had consulted his cat, or had something different for breakfast, or worn different pants, maybe the outcome would have been different. Or if he'd just made different decisions for a non-mystical reason. It's all made up.

There are no doubt some people who do still believe in this kind of twaddle, but it seems unlikely that important national decisions would be based on it, as it's hard to imagine a whole government going along with it. I think a leader going by mystical omens would be ousted quickly in most countries!

Didn't Carrie have a feng shui advisor?

Diana had various alternative advisors- I'm sure there was talk of colon irrigation, homeopathy etc.

I'm sure Charles would use a naturopath.

I think the mystical stuff gathers around health these days. It's about the search for esoteric knowledge, certainty, about things we don't know. As we know more now (science) we need less esoteric insight. We're still driven to it for health, for the problems doctors can't fix.

I can't imagine Boris having time for anything except his own opinion and gut instinct.

Oh, and spiritualism. We can't beat death or health, so we seek answers in the 'other' realm for those.

It depends what a full moon eclipse means to Charles and his coronation. Not all astrologers would view it as ‘bad’. They will have their varying reasons for specific individuals and situations. It wouldn’t be generic astrological omen advice - that’s the value of an in-house Court Seer/Astrologer/Oracle (they’ll know stuff specific to the leaders they’re advising).

In the Netflix documentary clip (linked above), the red blood moon was a bad omen for the Ottoman’s enemy, but not the Ottomans themselves. For Ottomans it was a good sign.

So an astrologer could have chosen the full moon eclipse for Charles’ coronation on purpose.

Butterfly effects might have influenced things subconsciously. But what I’m talking about is conscious decisions made by heeding astrological signs.

You have to read astrological omens in the context. It’s an art, not a science. But I don’t see why that isn’t valid if there’s a historical and traditional basis for it?

In the Netflix documentary, the fight for Constantinople was interesting because both sides believed they had God on their side. Reading astrological omens becomes more important - that’s like getting heads up or guide from God.

@Fairislefandango ”but it seems unlikely that important national decisions would be based on it, as it's hard to imagine a whole government going along with it. I think a leader going by mystical omens would be ousted quickly in most countries!”

As @postcardpuffin said “I’d be surprised if many other modern Western leaders do; but I think they may still be a feature in other parts of the world with different dominant religions, eg. India.”

Countries like India are doing extremely well - they’ve risen to being superpowers in a very short space of time.

Maybe their leaders won’t publicly talk about any mystical influences in decision making, but that might be a PR thing. They’ll know other leaders won’t think in the same way. Or, they don’t want to give away their competitive advantage.

If a country has an official religion, then reading astrological omens isn’t that strange because it’s about feel needing/wanting a higher power is still on their side - and that can offer courage to beat the odds.

I have wondered if leaders sought Court seer/astrologer/oracle types during 2020? Corona means crown. Stellar corona is something astrological too.

both sides believed they had God on their side. Reading astrological omens becomes more important - that’s like getting heads up or guide from God.

I guess* *it depends on which 'god' you mean...

In the fight for Constantinople, both sides technically had the same one Abrahamic God.

Bhutan delayed its covid vaccine roll out until an auspicious date that was worked put by a panel of Buddhist monks if that's the sort of thing you mean?