Are Court Seers/Oracles/Astrologers still used today?

[Inspecto]

Throughout history there appears to be a Court Seer/Oracle/Astrologer that Kings and Queens or other leaders turn to for guidance. And their insights were taken seriously in decision making too.

Documentary on Netflix suggests the blood moon during the fall of Constantinople spelled omens. Heeding these astrological omens influenced Ottoman leader Mehmed II’s decision making, leading to his side successfully conquering Constantinople, modern day Istanbul.

I think it’s fascinating that an astrological omen was identified, taken seriously in decision making by a leader and acted on with the predicted results coming true.

Do modern day leaders (kings or queens or emperors or empresses) still turn to omen and spiritual sign readers? Or has that art been lost or dismissed in favour of something else?

@Inspecto Which I suppose would beg the question, why were they consulting with Astrologers/Oracles in the first place?

Why not? And I don’t know? Some believed how God communicated in real time through astrology or that’s how God could be read.

Astrology in Medieval Manuscripts

The Ottoman Sultan Who Ruled the Country with Horoscopes

Maybe recognised the limitations of relying on a very old book to get answers and guides in the middle of conflict?

You really need to get a hobby or something.

Faith, philosophy and religion topics is my hobby.

Faith: More Than a Hobby

I want to know more. And I finally have some time off to explore things before it gets busy again.

I have come to the conclusion that because faith matters takes up so much time, headspace and thought, most people who dismiss it are simply not well informed enough (not through ignorance necessarily, but through lack of time and headspace).

@Inspecto Because it's strictly prohibited in Christianity, but when you're starting whole-ass wars what harm's a bit of astrology between friends eh?!

You have to read astrological omens in the context. It’s an art, not a science. But I don’t see why that isn’t valid if there’s a historical and traditional basis for it?

It's neither an art nor a science. It's a load of nonsense.

Is it strictly prohibited in all of Christianity though? Or is it just one book out of many in the bible?

Anyway it was the Ottoman side, not the Christian side, who were paying more attention to astrology in their decision making.

Mehmed II was a very well educated Renaissance man. He was a philosopher-sultan and considered different disciplines in his approaches, but still a devout in his Muslim faith. In the Netflix documentary there’s a scene where Mehmed II talks to a woman on the Constantinople Christian side and she’s amazed he knows the Christian faith so well.

If someone strictly prohibits something like astrology, then it makes people more curious. In the case of Mehmed II, heeding astrological signs gave him a competitive edge - and it still stands today with modern day Constantinople (Istanbul).

I don't really know where to start with so much of this...

Is it strictly prohibited in all of Christianity though

Yes, it's referenced in both the Old and New Testament and is described as a form of divination.

If someone strictly prohibits something like astrology, then it makes people more curious.

Prohibition does tend to have that affect on people, doesn't make it right though.

...but still a devout in his Muslim faith.

I'm not familiar enough with Islam to understand their stance on astrology and similar practices.

Are you connected to the Netflix documentary in some way? @Inspecto

Divination is haram in most branches of Islam iirc.

@NewBootsAndRanty Thank you, I thought as much. 👍

I’m sure many prominent politicians, perhaps even heads of state, consult astrologers in those parts of the world where astrology is taken seriously. It’s likely that the royal courts of Thailand, Bhutan, the government in exile of Tibet and perhaps others have court astrologers. I’m sure the royal family of Nepal had one too, before it was abolished.
I think in Christianity and in Islam astrology was a slightly liminal practice as it is not active divination or communicating with spirits such as casting arrows, dice, cards or reading bones, etc, but rather the attempt at interpreting the movement of heavenly bodies which happen irrespective of astrologers and whose circuits were ordained by God.

@Vincitveritas ”Prohibition does tend to have that affect on people, doesn't make it right though.”

I have faith and believe in God. But… I can also be like Belle in Beauty and the Beast.

If I am being specifically told not go to the West Wing, I am going to know something valuable is worth hiding in the West Wing (and that’s why I’m sceptical of people who say ‘there’s nothing there, it’s nonsense’). Curiosity will get the better of me and I might end up, like Belle, braving the West Wing to see what’s going on. Like Beast though, God will probably get mad at me - but I would still believe in God (going to the West Wing, in this analogy, is also a sign of my faith in God’s existence, not lack of it) and I’d trust we can figure things out because God must know that prohibitions can be tempting to the curious mind.

Also, these religious texts were written by men (interpreting God’s word). Didn’t they used to believe women were generally gifted at divination reading? Or at least divination was associated with women?

Maybe it’s more accurate that the prohibition came from men who felt threatened by gifted women in divination who could read omens and astrology in ways they just couldn’t? So wouldn’t the best way to protect the patriarchy be to discredit or demonise divination and the women associated with the practice?

In the Mehmed II astrology scene (based on history, apparently) it was actually his trusted stepmother, Mara Brankovic, who gave him the divination. So, a woman.

Curiosity will get the better of me and I might end up, like Belle, braving the West Wing to see what’s going on. Like Beast though, God will probably get mad at me - but I would still believe in God (going to the West Wing, in this analogy, is also a sign of my faith in God’s existence, not lack of it) and I’d trust we can figure things out because God must know that prohibitions can be tempting to the curious mind.

There is faith in God's existence and faith in God, though. If God wants to send signs and messages He will. Why seek a sign when you can seek God? Why try and predict a future outcome for a course of action when you can seek God for the best course action? The actual seeking for a sign works against faith as it is asking for proof before a plan comes to fruition. It is like someone promising something to you which is completely within their power and you wanting to find proof on your own when you could just ask them about how whatever will occur.

@Fairislefandango ”If God wants to send signs and messages He will.”

But how would you know it’s definitely a sign and message from God? And what happens if the signs and messages are obvious but people don’t care or think it’s possibly God?

Example: I am wondering if corona could possibly be a sign and message from God because it means crown - God is synonymous with the corona/crown (‘the Word was God’ (John 1:1)). Corona/crown was also powerful because it impacted the whole world - and the bible shows god is capable of sending plagues and pestilence.

I’m not alone. Two-thirds of US believers see Covid-19 as message from God, poll finds

To some (especially those who don’t believe in God), the idea seems bonkers. But I also think it’s bonkers not to read the signs and messages if they seem obvious (corona/crown and impacting the whole world seems obviously God to me). If it is God, he’s not being subtle - corona means crown (a symbol of God).

But why would God do this? I wonder if it is something about the actual crown - is God saying there’s a problem? It’s not like there are no red flags about the corona—ation.

Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” (7th of the 10 commandments)

Experts play down Coronation crisis fears after royal author Anthony Holden suggested King Charles's ceremony could be invalidated because of his 1994 affair confession Holden wrote: 'The Church of England has never crowned a divorced man as King, let alone one who has publicly confessed to adultery – with the relevant woman expecting to be crowned Queen Consort.

King Charles' coronation could be invalidated because of affair, royal author says Royal biographer Anthony Holden claimed that King Charles' confession of adultery could spark a "constitutional crisis", and noted that the Church of England has never crowned a divorced man as King

Time will tell. All the world’s a stage for the coronation…

*corona-tion

Corona viruses have been given that name because of their shape. They are that shape for straightforward evolutionary reason (although viruses are not considered life forms, they do evolve).

Also John 1:1 says nothing about crowns.

God must know that prohibitions can be tempting to the curious mind.

Well, you know what they say - curiosity killed the cat and all that!

Didn’t they used to believe women were generally gifted at divination reading? Or at least divination was associated with women?

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in the Bible which would suggest this was the case. Historically and culturally it may have been true, though I'm not too sure on that. Two examples off the top of my head are the Witch of Endor and the fortune telling slave girl.

Maybe it’s more accurate that the prohibition came from men who felt threatened by gifted women in divination who could read omens and astrology in ways they just couldn’t?

I have to disagree with this:

Joseph and Daniel interpreted dreams
Samuel is described as a 'seer'
God performed miracles through Moses, Elijah, Elisha and others
The 12 major prophets in the Bible are all men
John the Baptist and John the Elder
The disciples drove out unclean spirits
The Magi ('three wise men') were very versed in astrology
Roman Soothsayers were quite often men
Nebuchadnezzar's wise men, enchanters, magicians and astrologers were all men
Pharaoh also had wise men, Sorcerers, magicians and those practicing 'secret arts'
Simon from Samaria practiced magic before his conversion
Baalam was a diviner
Bar-Jesus was a Sorcerer and Jewish false prophet
Levitical Law states that a "man or woman" found to be a medium or necromancer should be put to death
Likewise a "man or woman" who does what is evil in Deuteronomy
Last but not least Satan who I suppose isn't technically male but is refered to as he/him.

Shh, logic has no place here.

John 1:1 says “the Word was God Himself”.

The word corona is Latin and means crown (a symbol for god).

Crowns are referenced throughout the bible. Crown of Thorns, for example.

“Corona viruses have been given that name because of their shape.”

I am aware of that. But I’m also aware that God sends signs and messages using language and names. Human language is a miracle.

God knows how powerful human language is. Tower of Babel makes that point. With corona (which means crown) it is one word across all the different countries, cultures and languages all over the world. The word corona is unifying - everyone, everywhere, all over the world are now familiar with the word corona.

I think it’s interesting that of all the different viruses out there that had potential to reach pandemic status, it was the one called corona/crown that managed it.

I wouldn’t think God was behind the corona pandemic if it was called something else that had nothing to do with divinity. Corona (the word) caught my attention - and I’m not alone.

And it’s also logical to know we don’t know everything. This is why asking questions is useful - and important.

No such thing as a stupid question is a common phrase, that states that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others, they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases, multiple people may not know, but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

Very good points. Thank you.

Found this book too: Women's Divination in Biblical Literature Prophecy, Necromancy, and Other Arts of Knowledge

And this article The scientific reason why women are more likely to believe in the supernatural

We should certainly be looking to the skies for signs of the end times. However, that isn't the same as interpreting constellations and using the signs of the Zodiac to predict what so called influence they might have on a person's destiny.
Jesus said there will be great signs from heaven in the last days, "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken." Luke 21:25-26.

Stellar corona

Nah, your hobby seems to be peddling this one psrticular bonkers theory about the Queen.