Reiki

[Fanatic]

Has anyone tried Reiki? Could you tell me a little bit about it?

Who has said there shoudl not be? Obviously if they know their cviews are a load of rubbish and are convinced by the arguments of those who can prove their ideas don't work then MN has done its work. If they robustly show how thing have helped them as many have on this thread then that's all to the good. I don't think even the most rational scientist on this thread have said the placebo effect does not work nor have they said believers in rubbish even should not post, nor have they said that some of the alternative treatments shoudl not be properly studied.

Of course there should be a platform for people who have said they have benefitted from Reiki. And nobody's saying that it's not relaxing, and peaceful and that lying quietly in a calm room and having another human being paying attention to you is not good for you. But I see no reason why I, and others like me, should sit respectfully by when people talk about mysterious energies, and aeons old therapies, and cures and healing- and use science- like words without being prepared to back them up with actual science. Oh, and the unaccountable warmth you feel when a living human hand is held an inch above your bare skin........

But I see no reason why I, and others like me, should sit respectfully by when people talk about mysterious energies, and aeons old therapies, and cures and healing

because YOUR stance is the only one that carries real weight - just because something is outside of YOUR experience or understanding, does not make it flaky or untrue - just simply something YOU & "others like you" don't yet "get" -

where as the rest of us more enlightened bods obviously have an "in" on something that you don't - yet - Personally I for one & by the lack of Reiki supporters returning to argue the point in the face of such bigoted ignorance, just don't see it as our crusade to put YOU right - believe or disbelieve, that is your prerogative, but your holier than thou closed minded attitude really does you no favours at all :(

The more I read of your opinions on Reiki & what it actually is, the more I realise you don't actually have a clue, but are so closed in your know all attitude that I personally CBA to waste my time argueing

"because YOUR stance is the only one that carries real weight"

If by "YOUR stance" you mean how the world actually works, researched, discovered, and by now considered FACT by anyone with an 80+ IQ and an A-Level education, then yes, it's the only one that carries real weight.

A physicist came on this thread and explained quantum physics to those who claimed Reiki has something to do with it. She was told to show respect to those who stubbornly refused to understand her explanations In case you are wondering, yes, what she said was the only "stance" that carries any real weight" because that is what we know through rigorous experiments. As opposed to what you people imagine (channelling the universe's love energy? ) as you make hand signals to each other.

"just simply something YOU & "others like you" don't yet "get""

I'd love to get it Can you explain? What is Reiki? What does it do and how does it produce the effect that you claim it does?

Like I said - CBA to argue a point or explain anything unable to be understood by someone whose head is too far shoved up their own scientific arse to be able to think outside the box.

but a bit of FFT for the doubters pinning everything believable on modern day science may be - for a LONG time Acupuncture has also been seen a a flaky no scientific basis hippy dippy treatment of choice to some - yet it goes back thousands of years & many believe in its benefits, so much so that its now an accepted treatment on the NHS, with trials proving it can work - its based on "Meridians" no scientific evidence for them either

Role forward - & a far newer medial science is that of the bodies Facia & the accompanying treatment of "Myofascial Release" - recognised medically in the US & many parts of the world - interestingly the bodies Facia, follows the self same patters as the "mythical" meridians"

I short as I've said many times before on these sorts of head banging threads - just because science doesn't YET have the capacity to understand or to prove something of this nature, it doesn't make its hocus pocus or the believers less intelligent - lets face it, if we all dogmatically followed current scientific doctrine & no-one was enlightened or ^intelligent" enough to stick their head above the parapet & believe - lets face it, we'd all still be living in a flat world

comfortmewithapples I don't if I've been bullied, off the thread, but it got boring. The OP wanted to talk about reiki, and a few posters decided to scream "It's all pointless woo and all practitioners are charlatans"" or words to that effect, and quite frankly it got boring. People shooting down something just because it's not for them makes for a dull thread, so I haven't read much of the latest posts.

rockinhippy - have you ever encountered an alternative therapy whose claims you felt sceptical about?

It seems unlikely that all the claims of all the myriad alternative therapies can be true... and therefore we have to find a way of distinguishing ones that work from ones that don't. And the best way we have found so far of doing that is the double-blind scientific trial. Can you think of a better way of distinguishing?

But, rockinhippy, in the case of reiki science has shown it to be no more efficacious than a placebo. This doesn't mean it "doesn't work", placebos "work" because people believe in them and so does reiki. And so do all sorts of other woo. Nocebos can even kill.

But they don't work because there are universal energies flowing, or whatever explanation is favoured. They work because the patient believes they will work.

Tyhe alternatives on the thread certainly prove our points for them.. .laughing as I type. They hardly come over as prepared to consider scientific issues and intelligent.

I do not think anyone rational on the thread has said all alternative therapies are rubbish. Some genuinely will work. Others will make make people feel better and some will be rubbish peddled by charlatans after your money.

On Reiki wikipedia is pretty honest about it

"The concept of ki underlying Reiki is speculative and there is no scientific evidence that it exists; a 2008 systematic review of randomised clinical trials concluded that "the evidence is insufficient to suggest that reiki is an effective treatment for any condition. Therefore the value of reiki remains unproven."[4] The American Cancer Society[5] and the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine[6] have also found that there is no clinical or scientific evidence supporting claims that Reiki is effective in the treatment of any illness." Although if you are anti Catholic this might encourage you to try it;;

"In March 2009, the Committee on Doctrine of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a decree (Guidelines for Evaluating Reiki as an Alternative Therapy)[124] halting the practice of Reiki by Catholics used in some Catholic retreat centres and hospitals. The conclusion of the decree stated that "since Reiki therapy is not compatible with either Christian teaching or scientific evidence, it would be inappropriate for Catholic institutions, such as Catholic health care facilities and retreat centres, or persons representing the Church, such as Catholic chaplains, to promote or to provide support for Reiki therapy.""

Anyway it is certainly one of the more dubious practices whereas something like meditation or massage or eating a good diet is likely to do you some good.

rockinhippy - have you ever encountered an alternative therapy whose claims you felt sceptical about

Yes of course, many a time & many ARE complete hocus pocus with a view to make someone rich & there are plenty of "Therapists" who don't really have a clue or skill too - so I don't argue with any of that, nor do I argue that any therapist claiming that modern medicine should be ditched in favour of their own "trade" is not playing with lives -

I do however think we get it very wrong here in the West - in for example China some so called therapies are just part of normal life - the Therapist won't think twice about pointing out any weakness they find during a session, but IME they will then send you off to see a Medical Doctor

IME Reiki, which we are discussing here, isn't on that particular list of hocus pocus therapies to avoid - generally speaking, the more ancient forms of alternative therapies have stood the test of time, because there IS something in it - some modern ones are also just variations on ancient arts.

There is no easy answer to how to say whats good & whats bad & what works & what doesn't, much of it, is for the time being at least outside the realms of science - that will no doubt change as science evolves, but for now all you can do is keep your wits about you, don't rule it out, but I'd probably also be wary of anyone charging large fees

LynetteScavo, you write: "The OP wanted to talk about reiki, and a few posters decided to scream "It's all pointless woo and all practitioners are charlatans"" or words to that effect, and quite frankly it got boring. People shooting down something just because it's not for them makes for a dull thread, so I haven't read much of the latest posts."

That is precisely my point.

All the shouting and sneering kills the thread.

And it seems to me that that is the point of all the shouting and sneering: to kill the thread. What other aim could it have?

So you can call it bulllying, or call it de-railing, or call it deliberate thread-killing, but the effect is the same: people are not allowed to get on with calmly and courteously discussing the question raised in the OP.

And as I've said many times on this thread now, it happens repeatedly with threads about cranial osteopathy, acupuncture, you name it.

My frustration arises from the fact that I find discussion of those topics interesting, thought-provoking and sometimes useful. I open a thread, I read it, it gets quickly killed, I feel frustrated. And it seems to me to be a form of censorship.

Reiki started in 1922.

1. Don?t get angry today.

1. Don?t be grievous.

1. Express your thanks.

1. Be diligent in your business.

1. Be kind to others.

Very useful ideas, OldLady.

But, rockinhippy, in the case of reiki science has shown it to be no more efficacious than a placebo. This doesn't mean it "doesn't work", placebos "work" because people believe in them and so does reiki

But thats just it Oldlady I DIDN'T believe in it, the first time I encountered it I too thought it a load of hocus pocus twaddle, but it was on offer for free & I had an hour to kill & nothing else to do & I thought it was some sort of relaxing massage, so thought I'd give it a go - I LOL when this big burly Northern Bloke came in - he wasn't what I imagined a therapist to be at all - but he correctly pin pointed problem areas with 100% accuracy & he "worked" on an ankle injury that was still painful after 6 months on crutches & a year of physio - I didn't believe in any of it & never mentioned the injury to him - but its never troubled me since - even though I have a chronic pain condition that affects everywhere - to this day that ankle has never hurt again

Reiki started in 1922 - yes true, but its just a more modern day take on more ancient energy healing therapies & philosophies

Yes, comfort, but hardly new or unique. :)

Rockinhippy, so why not return to the same practitioner and get him to deal with the rest of your pain?

& theres no placebo effect involved in my experienced as a Reiki "healer" - what I experienced put the willies up me & TBH put me right off following it up further,

but once attuned you really DO feel the breaks in the bodies energy field over areas of any damage or illness to that body - its felts as something akin to a strong localised cold draught - you can't diagnose as such, as its based on a very different system to medicine, but you can pin point an area that is "diseased" & that sometimes can then be obvious what is wrong, depending on the area involved IYSWIM

It is unfortunate that all your "it REALLY does work, I REALLY feel it" doesn't add up to one randomised controlled trial.

"generally speaking, the more ancient forms of alternative therapies have stood the test of time, because there IS something in it"

Like iridology? Or astrology?

Sometimes things last for thousands of years simply because people are gullible.

IME it's usually religion and homeopathy which get sneered at on MN.

Both were very important to my grandmother. She spent very little money on either, but they gave her huge amounts of comfort, especially in her 90's.

Complementary medicine is just that...something which should be used along side modern medicine. Just because you can't see or touch or understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because scientist aren't able to explain something today, doesn't mean they never will. Personally I like to keep an open mind.

I agree, it's a shame people who want to discuss a topic are unable to because others who consider it tosh repeatedly post.

Rockinhippy, so why not return to the same practitioner and get him to deal with the rest of your pain

Oldlady If I knew how to find him I might well have tried that, but many years & miles in between then & now & I left the therapy with ankle pain that felt better, I never thought for one second that it was cured, if i had taken it more seriously at the time I might have at least bothered to get his full name, but I didn't - thats not to presume he could help now, but would certainly be worth the trying :)

It is unfortunate that all your "it REALLY does work, I REALLY feel it" doesn't add up to one randomised controlled trial

Unfortunate for who exactly ?? - the closed minded individuals like those on here, who believe in nothing without full blown "scientific" proof - not unfortunate for me, nor the many like me who thankfully are secure enough in our own minds not to give a flying one about the dogmatic opinion about people clearly unable to think outside the box

Sometimes things last for thousands of years simply because people are gullible

or perhaps just open minded enough to try & make an informed decision for themselves based on their OWN experiences - after all isn't it that sort of open minded thinking that drives science forward

& As a foot note, I don't believe for one second, Reiki can cure all, medicine can't & Reiki can in fact be just as much about dying with peace of mind as it can healing - death after all scientifically is a fact of life, none of us are destined to live for ever - Reiki is no more an antidote to that, than medicine is

^Complementary medicine is just that...something which should be used along side modern medicine. Just because you can't see or touch or understand something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because scientist aren't able to explain something today, doesn't mean they never will. Personally I like to keep an open mind.

I agree, it's a shame people who want to discuss a topic are unable to because others who consider it tosh repeatedly post^

Spot on Lynette - there are some truly arrogant F'ers on MN who seem to think only they are allowed an opinion - thank God most of us are wise enough not to listen

[leaves thread banging head on wall]

"Just because scientist aren't able to explain something today, doesn't mean they never will."

You can only say this for something that actually works, but we don't know how - i.e. tests show beyond doubt that Reiki heals wounds, cures illnesses, reverses aging, etc but we don't yet know its mechanism of action.

The opposite is true. Tests have shown over and over again that Reiki doesn't work better than placebo, which is why scientists aren't falling over each other to "explain" Reiki.

I can try, if you like, though. It would go something like this:

Reiki doesn't work because waving your hands in the air, calling help from imaginary characters, and drawing symbols in the air cannot have any effect on a person except maybe as a placebo.

Unfortunate for you, rocknhippy. HTH

It is very clear on this thread that there are some posters who are here not to engage in a debate but just to shout others down. A rather sad indictment of the scientific mindset.

It would be nice for once to have an open-minded discussion where we can hear both sides of an argument and learn from both rather than being hectored.

I work in the NHS (professional, patient-facing role) but keep an open mind (albeit a slightly sceptical one), even to the point of having done some professional training to learn more. It hasn't convinced me one way or the other but I wish others would be a bit more considerate of both sides of this argument.

""generally speaking, the more ancient forms of alternative therapies have stood the test of time, because there IS something in it""

Could you name me one?