Reiki

[Fanatic]

Has anyone tried Reiki? Could you tell me a little bit about it?

I'm not sure what you want me to say! Are you saying that because Nazi scientists used randomised controlled trials that means randomised controlled trials are bad?

Do you believe that science is immutable?

Do you accept that in science, he who pays the piper calls the tune?

[I can explain what I mean by that, if needed.]

No. The whole point of science is that it is not immutable. When the evidence supports change, science changes. That's how it differs from faith or belief.

And yes, some research is questionable- you need to look into any vested interests. Just like all the research which seems to show that homeopathy works , which happens to be produced by the British Homeopathic Society.

So, if you had been living in Germany under the Nazi regime, would it have been right or wrong to discuss and question the "science" of racial superiority?

comfort I think you're missing the point that although science and research can show something, valid counter arguments can be made also using science.

An easy demonstration of this is the IQ test. An IQ test will show, in general, that white middle class males have a higher IQ than other sectors of the population. This 'scientific' assertion, can be countered logically with data to show that the tests are biased towards white mc males because of the way the tests were originally put together. So this is science countering science.

I'm not sure where big pharma could benefit from the IQ research but it was carried out using valid methods and would have been funded somehow, so big pharma are not the only people funding research.

There have been no such valid or logical counter-arguments to the "reiki is nothing more than a bit of woo which might help some people relax and feel better about themselves, thereby promoting the healing process" put forward by those who are proposing a pro-science logical viewpoint.

Way back in the thread I did suggest a reason why Reiki might attract more charlatans than other areas of alternative/complementary therapy but I don't think anyone from the pro-Reiki posters have replied or commented on it.

What do you mean? There have been loads of experiments designed to "prove" a particular race's superiority- not just under the nazis. So far, any which "prove" a particular race's intellectual superiority have been shown to have flawed methodology.

I have said that what might be worth researching is the role of oxytocin in healing without touching. I still think that's a really interesting area of science, which is indeed being researched currently. However I was sneered at for raising it.

I would love to talk about it more, however.

Re your points, seeker, read that paper I linked to from Warwick Uni.

I must be stupid because I have just skim-read the paper and really can't see any relevance to this discussion other than a mention that the Nazis broke their own laws about ethics when using people as subjects for scientific research. Can someone explain the relevance using small words please?

I have read it. I don't see the relevance.

Ok, I'll quote an easy bit from that paper :

"Although there is general agreement that the various Nazi experiments were unethical, specifying exactly what was wrong is not simple [7]. The experiments were conducted against a background belief that eugenics was a valuable science, a belief which was widespread in the Western world, and is not without its present day adherents."

I had to type all that out - for some reason it would not allow me to C&P so please don't ask for tons more.

That's why a proper experiment is double blind. To eliminate confirmation bias.

??? So because quite a lot of Nazis were pro-eugenics, and some people today are pro-eugenics (as long as they're not the eugenics!), any logical scientific argument can be countered by an illogical "because I want to believe it's true" argument? I'm really sorry but I don't see the relevance of this?

I am not following it either. Of course one scientific result later can be proved wrong and of course there is lots we constantly find out about about health that improves things (fat good, sugar bad is a big one presently) but that does not mean we discount tests on whether an alternative thing works or not. If I said tomorrow if I email you I have such strong powers you will be healed of all depression and as long as you tithe me a tenth of your income you will start to earn what I do and lose weight surely you'd want that proven in some way rather than 6 people who know me and are commission saying so?

All of those in favour of good science hvae no problems with seeking to study why some people do feel better through Reiki or think they do.

xeniawhat's the difference between feeling better and thinking you feel better?

There is a huge difference if you've actually got something wrong with you. The placebo effect and auto suggestion might make you think you 're feelin better while whatever's wrong with you continues to get worse.

But if you've got one of those vague feelings of dis-ease, or mild back pain or the occasional headache or feeling a bit bloated after meals that are Cam's stock in trade, th isn't a different, you're right.

"xenia what's the difference between feeling better and thinking you feel better?"

I think she is pointing at the difference between being better and feeling better.

As in, your tumour shrinking and you thinking it must have shrunk because Reiki made you feel better about yourself for an hour or two.

but no-one's argued for reiki as a sole treatment for cancer have they?

It was an example I gave to explain the difference between being better and feeling better.

My back injury is a great example of feeling better and being better. Thanks to the complementary therapy I was having (massage and aromatherapy) plus lots of support from work and family, I was feeling better, to the point where the surgeon booked me in for another MRI scan as he thought my disc problem may have fixed itself. (Cripples aren't supposed to be able to jump up and down from their hospital bed.) The scan showed that the problem had actually got worse but the support I was receiving was making me feel better. The only thing that actually fixed my back and made me actually be better, was the surgery.

I have said placebos are great and if it's something that isn't killing you etc then go ahead if you have the money to spare. If you think you're better but aren't and the cancer spreads and you die then may be that placebo may not be good.

I certainly agree with the post a bit further up about trying both (as long as the placebo/alternative thing is not positive damaging).

Anyway as we all know if we look it up reiki is one that is particularly unproven and usually found not to work but people like it and let them continue as long as they realise it probably will not work and as long asi t does not make any false claims which breach criminal law.

By the way I was just reading about Jack Osbourne (MS in his 20s). He noteiced pins and needles 2 years ago. He just had acupuncture. I am not saying had he avoided alternative treatment then and seen a doctor and MS was disagnosed 2 years earlier it would have made a difference but it does seem to be another example of people trying alternative things without also exploring conventional medicine so things don't get picked up.

Xenia - probably not - MS is one of many ailments that are notoriously hard to get a diagnosis for - it took my Mum over 20 yrs & if doctors can't find an easy answer, too many unfortunately do have a bad habit of fobbing people off as "its all in your mind" ie stress, depression etc etc - so I don't doubt Jack Osbourne would have gone the conventional route first.

Yes, it does take a while for MS to be diagnosed (but rockinhippy, 20 years? )

My dad had pins and needles and balance problems, which my mother put down to too much alcohol for a couple of years, before he was diagnosed with MS. Has she been more "woo" minded she may have pointed him in a different direction than abstinence.

Good points. Diet can help (work of Dr Wahls) perhaps too.

I didn't believe in anything woo. Thought it was all rubbish, people out to get money from the vulnerable. My job is to be skeptical.

Anyhoo I suffered extreme PN anxiety. Crisis team, re hospitalisation extreme.

I was offered ADs countless times. But GP also recommended mindfulness - which is meditation by another name. There is a NHS funded campaign to get us all practicing it - check it out.

I tried it in utter desperation. And something very, very peculiar happened. I did feel 'at one' with the universe and in a state of bliss. Like everything was connected. All those hippy cliches. It freaked me out and I had to stop.

It has made me a LOT more open minded about everything. I had never had any desire to feel 'at one' - I didn't even know it was a feeling associated with meditation until I researched it afterwards.

Anyhow, I now want to give reiki a whirl. Why not? I'm very intrigued.